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How do you make music?
Posted: Posted February 7th, 2016 by Luna1239

I've been wondering for quite some time how I'll go about making music. I can't really create my own instruments and test out how they sound and how will I make my music different from music here, especially in the U.S. I don't want it to be like a carbon copy of the music. I want it to be unique and attractive.

How do you guys create how your people sing. What type of scale do they sing in and most of all what types of scales are there, I've heard of the Pentatonic scale, and many others but I just don't know how to do it. How to write my music.

How do you determine the rules your people use to sing, there must be rules because sometimes you can easily determine if music is Celtic, or pop and rock, or Chinese, etc.

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Hard to answer. I want to know, too.

Posted February 8th, 2016 by chiarizio

Yeah it's probably one of the trickiest parts for me. I really, really want to create music for the conworld but I just don't know where to start.

Posted February 14th, 2016 by Luna1239

I've been wondering for quite some time how I'll go about making music.


That's a pretty broad question! I'll ask in return: do you have any ideas what you'd like the musics of your peoples to sound like? I mean, broadly speaking. In your mind, does it sound "Greek" or "Indian" or "Mongolian". Looking for an aesthetic basis here, not so much a stylistic one.

A lot of what makes a music sound the way it does -- and this will most definitely include "standard western" music -- is its tonal pallette. The scales and modes in use as well as the basic tuning of individual tones.

Is the music you're chasing entirely vocal? Do they play musical instruments as well? Is the music structurally melodic or harmonic? Is it polyphonic or monophonic or somewhere in between?

I can't really create my own instruments and test out how they sound


One interesting thing about physical instruments is that there really isn't much left to invent (typologically speaking) that hasn't already been tried. In Western art music, your basic wind and string instruments rest upon a heap of trial and error (and sometimes moments of foolish casting away of what was actually good) stretching back to antiquity. Even when you look further afield into the art traditions of India and China and SE Asia, the basic "types" of instruments are relatively few. You have a basic choice of striking, stopping, plucking or bowing an open or stopped string; you have choices of cup-shaped (brass) instrument mouthpieces, single reeds, double reeds, or no reeds for exciting a stream of air; you have the choice of striking or bowing some solid shape made from metal, stone, bone, wood, bamboo, hide, etc.

That's your basic wind + string + percussion that is prevalent everywhere in the world. Everything else is just minor details (like is that saxophone-like object made from brass or wood? or does that bassoon-like object have a narrow nearly cylindrical or a very widely conical bore?)

You'd be in very good company indeed if you tried your hand at inventing a new or improving an old instrument!

But again, it's the sound pallette you will be interested in: do you peoples prefer stringed instruments or flute-like instruments?

and how will I make my music different from music here, especially in the U.S. I don't want it to be like a carbon copy of the music. I want it to be unique and attractive.


Considering all the different kinds of music that exist, what does it mean, to you, for music to be unique and attractive?

How do you guys create how your people sing. What type of scale do they sing in and most of all what types of scales are there, I've heard of the Pentatonic scale, and many others but I just don't know how to do it. How to write my music.


Big questions there! Yes, sorting out the scales and modes is a big part of the formula. Western music uses a basic twelve-tone scale (all those black and white keys on the piano) from which it is usual to choose seven, which will give you a diatonic scale. Depending on what pattern of seven notes are in the scale, you will have your familiar major and minor scales.

Of course, there are many more patterns than just those -- those are but two of the seven or more modes available to write music in. When you think of characteristically Irish or characteristically Middle Eastern music there are different modes preferred.

You also mentioned pentatonic -- that is simply a scale of five tones, rather than seven. There are other possibilities, such as octatonic.

Best thing to do there is take a look at the different scales and pick them out on a piano and keep note of the ones you like. Perhaps some will resonate with certain of your peoples while others will fit better elsewhere.

I frankly like pentatonic -- it's fairly easy to deal with and you can pretty much make music that sounds nice right from the start. There are makers that offer penny whistles in pentatonic scale if you'd like to go that route, or you can pick out the scales on a piano.

How do you determine the rules your people use to sing, there must be rules because sometimes you can easily determine if music is Celtic, or pop and rock, or Chinese, etc.


Yes, there are indeed rules! And this is where you will have to be musically creative! For some musics I have made for my otherworld, there is a different harmonic palette than you'd find in Western music. Western music is very tonic-dominant oriented and also moving between those poles. You could choose different poles, perhaps more than two. I chose a somewhat mathematically determined progression of chord shapes involving intervals of second and fourth (rather than fifth) and melodic motifs running in parallel sixths.

If you take a look here and click on the links for the different music samples, you can hear some of the musics to be found in The World.

Posted February 18th, 2016 by elemtilas

Thanks for the reply elemtilas!

do you have any ideas what you'd like the musics of your peoples to sound like? I mean, broadly speaking. In your mind, does it sound "Greek" or "Indian" or "Mongolian".


It's hard to say what it sounds like, I've listened to western music all my life and it's hard to imagine music differently. I'd probably have to test it out but I want my music to be a sound that people would want to listen to, I don't want it to be like Indian music because the sound isn't quite attractive to me, but I really like the sound of traditional Celtic, Irish, and even the Chinese.

In my world I have harsh and soft sounds. Soft sounds are used when you're content, or happy while harsh are used when you're angry, afraid, etc. So my music will already be different in sound because of the letters used. I would like there to be instruments in the background, and usually one or two singers. Mostly the music would be harmonic to help the music move along and take away any empty space that music with only a melody would have. the music would be either polyphonic or homophonic. Monophony would be rarer but sometimes it could be used but not in popular music.

do you peoples prefer stringed instruments or flute-like instruments


My people would prefer to use stringed instruments like the violin over the guitar, but they would also like the sound of certain wind instruments like the clarinet (but not the flute). Then there would be a beat from either a brass instrument or a percussion instrument like the drum, or bells, etc.

what does it mean, to you, for music to be unique and attractive?


By that I mean music that has a good sound, again unlike the traditional music of India. I know it will be hard to make it unique but I want there to be a way to discern it from other music in today's music. I want a sound that will sound nice to someones ears or empower them (depending on the emotion)...Also the topics they sing about would be most commonly songs that tells stories, or desires. Of course that would include the classic love song but unlike today's world I'll tone down on the "love" songs because those are...everywhere. To be attractive the singer must first of all sound good and I don't prefer the note to be sung in the lower ranges. I like it to jump around, up and down and keep the people wanting more. I also like it when music doesn't repeat the chorus too much. Instead of repeating it every time it would change up a little bit or a lot

Western music is very tonic-dominant oriented and also moving between those poles. You could choose different poles, perhaps more than two.


Could you describe what you mean by "poles" exactly?

Posted February 19th, 2016 by Luna1239

Thanks for the reply elemtilas!

do you have any ideas what you'd like the musics of your peoples to sound like? I mean, broadly speaking. In your mind, does it sound "Greek" or "Indian" or "Mongolian".


It's hard to say what it sounds like, I've listened to western music all my life and it's hard to imagine music differently.


This is understandable! But also curable...

I'd probably have to test it out but I want my music to be a sound that people would want to listen to, I don't want it to be like Indian music because the sound isn't quite attractive to me, but I really like the sound of traditional Celtic, Irish, and even the Chinese.


Okay. Actually, an awesome resource on all kinds of world music is Youtube. Here's some homework. Go listen to these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8paj2hQHIo -- Irish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVf5mH5G4gg -- Italian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-qht5M2IoA -- Greek (mod)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elERNFoEf3Y -- Greek (anc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjNeNDw7FiM -- Syriac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rmo3fKeveo -- Mongolian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vLe3nitC7M -- Inca
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viMbnj_Ei2A -- Hurrian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAO4kCQ2bj4 -- French
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKpWEnN9bpc -- English
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR-1R6_eO-c -- American (via England)


For extra credit, look up some others!

In my world I have harsh and soft sounds. Soft sounds are used when you're content, or happy while harsh are used when you're angry, afraid, etc. So my music will already be different in sound because of the letters used.


Not quite sure I follow. I would hazard the guess that soft, contented music will be something like a lullaby, while harsher, angrier music will be more like a rap.

I would like there to be instruments in the background, and usually one or two singers. Mostly the music would be harmonic to help the music move along and take away any empty space that music with only a melody would have. the music would be either polyphonic or homophonic. Monophony would be rarer but sometimes it could be used but not in popular music.


There are certainly many possibilities there. Melodic music, especially when it's traditional music, rarely has dead space -- as you can hear from the above samples!

One or two singers with non-obtrusive musical accompaniment could sound something like this, from Occitan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wunSW5x_-uo

or this reasonable reconstruction from Sumeria:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs

do your peoples prefer stringed instruments or flute-like instruments


My people would prefer to use stringed instruments like the violin over the guitar, but they would also like the sound of certain wind instruments like the clarinet (but not the flute). Then there would be a beat from either a brass instrument or a percussion instrument like the drum, or bells, etc.


Cool. Some different not-violins and not-clarinets to ponder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBWpB5zlerI -- crwth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL5bN3bcdfA -- morin khuur
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChcgBw19dTM -- dancing master's pochette
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4y7HNW972M -- hurdy gurdy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhic2cE57iM -- erhu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsqM1AVY4g -- kreung

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyJ3-QvZvI0 -- chalumeau
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGLkfXxYU2E -- pibgorn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjdxft_Qi94 -- auloi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkNteQY4M8 -- treujenn gaol

In the music from The World, the rhythm section -- gongs, chimes, trumpets and tuned drums -- is fundamental to many kinds of music. If you listen closely to the Imperial Garden Music, you can hear the percussive nature of the trumpet choir in conjunction with the gongs and chimes.

Their basic melodic instruments are flutes and lutes (plucked strings).

what does it mean, to you, for music to be unique and attractive?


By that I mean music that has a good sound,


Well, yeah. :wink:

I mean, to me, lots of different musics "sound good" -- almost all of the above "sound good" to me. And while there are many shared elements, there are also distinguishing features of rhythm or style or technique that set them apart.

I guess it's our jobs as makers / discoverers of otherworldly music to tease those features out. Trial & error and lots of practice will be best for that task!

again unlike the traditional music of India.


I'm sensing a distinct pattern here!

I know it will be hard to make it unique but I want there to be a way to discern it from other music in today's music. I want a sound that will sound nice to someones ears or empower them (depending on the emotion)...


Well, you certainly need to be able to hear those things in your own head first, before you can make it so I can hear it mine too!

Also the topics they sing about would be most commonly songs that tells stories, or desires. Of course that would include the classic love song but unlike today's world I'll tone down on the "love" songs because those are...everywhere.


Of course -- song has always been intertwined with story telling! I wouldn't "tone down" the love songs -- those and drinking songs and religious songs are probably the most common song themes anywhere and anywhen in the world.

Of course, that doesn't mean you yourself have to focus on love songs, or compose every love song ever written by one of your cultures! If the peoples in your otherworld are like humans, just recognise that the emotional landscape and the creative landscape will give rise to similar songs.

To be attractive the singer must first of all sound good and I don't prefer the note to be sung in the lower ranges. I like it to jump around, up and down and keep the people wanting more. I also like it when music doesn't repeat the chorus too much. Instead of repeating it every time it would change up a little bit or a lot.


Okay. So, I would wonder if, in this culture, it's women that do the singing. Perhaps that could be one of their domains? In one of my cultures, that of the Dhargh, it is always the women that sing and always the men that play upon a kind of flute to accompany their singing.

Can't abide girls singing high, me. :shock: Too screechy! Like starlings!

Deep bass is where it's at! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0HmIYv51pc

Western music is very tonic-dominant oriented and also moving between those poles. You could choose different poles, perhaps more than two.


Could you describe what you mean by "poles" exactly?


Sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK5295yEQMQ Very cool bit of Mozart that.

Listen in at about 1:20 and then at about 1:28 -- you'll hear that kind of bouncy "LOW-----LOW-high-----high-LOW------LOW-high" alternation in pitch -- in the basses, it's actually G-----G-c------c-G-----G-c. And then at 1:31 you hear a very rapid "LOWhighLOWhighLOWhigh" alternation, actually G-c-G-c-G-c and ending at 1:33 with a very powerful "LOW--LOW--LOW--LOW--LOW--LOW------" which is G-G-GG-GG-GG------.

This symphony is in C major, so the note C will be the "tonic" or principle / central tone of the piece. He will certainly modulate through other chords and other notes, but that C is what he'll always return to. The higher note in that alternation happens to be the tonic, C while the lower is the dominant, G. These are the two massive "poles" in Western music, this kind of tension between the two most powerful notes or intervals in any scale -- the first (tonic) and fifth (dominant). Same pretty much holds true for lots of European folk and modern pop music as well.

Just in case you're wondering "but, Mozart ended that bit on the dominant G..." In fact, the very next chord, the beginning of the following section of the piece, resolves, or returns to the tonic C. You can think of those two "poles" or power-tones like a light switch that you flip between "off" and "on", until you finally resolve to "off" and can now lie down and rest!

My point was that this is of course not the only way to do things. You can choose other poles, or other bases of tonality. In the pieces that I pointed you at from The World, you didn't really hear a very strong back-and-forth between tonic and dominant. There is a root tonality (in the case of the piece called "Tsarqan", it is F), but the underlying harmonic structure is a kind of wandering progression of seconds (A & Bb together, C & Db together), fourths (Ab & Db) and some fifths thrown in for good measure. Sixths and fourths and seconds therefore do the important work of tension & resolution that the fifths do in Western music.

So, I would say the "poles" of that Mozart symphony are C & G; while in Tsarqan, they are F, Bb & D (rather than F & C).

Posted February 20th, 2016 by elemtilas

Thanks elemtilas for all the information, took a lot of courage to get myself to read and do all the homework but I got to it finally! :D

Okay. Actually, an awesome resource on all kinds of world music is Youtube. Here's some homework. Go listen to these:


I listened to all of them and I found my very favorite one was the Incas music, it was just amazing to listen to. I also liked the irish a lot. My least favorites were the Greek (mod), Syriac, and Italian music. It just wasn't quite right for my ears.


Quote:
In my world I have harsh and soft sounds. Soft sounds are used when you're content, or happy while harsh are used when you're angry, afraid, etc. So my music will already be different in sound because of the letters used.


Not quite sure I follow. I would hazard the guess that soft, contented music will be something like a lullaby, while harsher, angrier music will be more like a rap.



Sorry about the misunderstanding. I should have explained it more. In their alphabet there are three types of letters: neutral, soft, and harsh. Soft sounds can not pair with harsh sounds, but can pair with neutral, and vice versa. Examples of soft sounds are "Hw, s, h, l" and harsh sounds are like "ch, t, k". The neutral letters are the vowels and a few consonants. They use soft letters in normal everyday speach to show contentment or happiness, but they use harsh letters when they're mad, afraid, or need to get attention.

One or two singers with non-obtrusive musical accompaniment could sound something like this, from Occitan:


oh I liked that music. It wasn't bad, and yeah I see what you mean. Though I'd probably like a little more music with it to help express emotion. Not too much like in today's world where some people put together as many sounds as possible, and as loud as possible (like rock) but a nice combination.

or this reasonable reconstruction from Sumeria:


I didn't really like this one as much, it felt a little empty to me, or it felt like I was waiting for the music to get exciting or pleasing but it stayed the same for me. Don't know how to describe that feeling but it just wasn't quite right.

Some different not-violins and not-clarinets to ponder:


My favorite sounds by far were the pochette and Erhu. I loved the Erhu and listening to it. The Chinese really know how to make a good, unique instrument! For the others well, I kinda liked the Treujenn gaol, but I though it sounded a little too close to the Erhu and I want the music to have many different sounds that work together while still having a unique sound.

Okay. So, I would wonder if, in this culture, it's women that do the singing. Perhaps that could be one of their domains? In one of my cultures, that of the Dhargh, it is always the women that sing and always the men that play upon a kind of flute to accompany their singing.


Yeah, I'd probably like that. It would be more like a world where music is dominated by woman, but not specifically only for woman. Men can sing too, but many don't because it would be often be seen as "womanly". It would be kind of like hair styling, men can do it, but they don't do it lot.

This symphony is in C major, so the note C will be the "tonic" or principle / central tone of the piece. He will certainly modulate through other chords and other notes, but that C is what he'll always return to. The higher note in that alternation happens to be the tonic, C while the lower is the dominant, G. These are the two massive "poles" in Western music, this kind of tension between the two most powerful notes or intervals in any scale -- the first (tonic) and fifth (dominant). Same pretty much holds true for lots of European folk and modern pop music as well.


Wow thanks for the description. I'll probably need to read up more on that. I wonder why C is such a dominant note. It's our tuning note for crying out loud. Could any other note be a tuning note, say A flat? Or is it just easier with a C? Is there a specific reason we made C such a dominant note?

Thanks!

Posted April 12th, 2016 by Luna1239

Thanks elemtilas for all the information, took a lot of courage to get myself to read and do all the homework but I got to it finally! :D

I listened to all of them and I found my very favorite one was the Incas music, it was just amazing to listen to. I also liked the irish a lot. My least favorites were the Greek (mod), Syriac, and Italian music. It just wasn't quite right for my ears.


No worries! There are a lot of different musics out there and they will each harmonise or not with us depending on our own inner sense of aesthetics.

I do like Inca music as well, though prefer the sean nos, which I think is more in synch with something deep inside. It sits well with my ears!

Sorry about the misunderstanding. I should have explained it more. In their alphabet there are three types of letters: neutral, soft, and harsh. Soft sounds can not pair with harsh sounds, but can pair with neutral, and vice versa. Examples of soft sounds are "Hw, s, h, l" and harsh sounds are like "ch, t, k". The neutral letters are the vowels and a few consonants. They use soft letters in normal everyday speach to show contentment or happiness, but they use harsh letters when they're mad, afraid, or need to get attention.


Do you mean like "words that tend to be perceived as positive, happy and content tend to have 'soft sounds' while words that tend to perceived as negative or angry tend to have harsh sounds" or do you mean "words that be construed as either happy or angry in emotional content have two grammaticalised forms -- one with 'soft sounds' and one with 'harsh sounds' depending on the perception of the speaker"?

The former is interesting, and is called "phonosemantics". This is where certain sounds come to be associated with certain meanings. As far as I know, very many if not all languages do this to some extent, but such systems are far from consistent. (And when they are, you're really getting into the increasingly nonsensical realm of philosophical conlangs.)

Examples in English: snake, slither, slimy, sneaky, stinky. What do they share in common? First, they all begin with a sibilant and in combination with a liquid or stop. Second, they all have a negative connotation: snakes are poisonous, monstrous creatures! They slither and sneak about! Slimy things are gross and dirty (and often poisonous)! Stinky things are gross!

But not every word that begins with sn- has a negative connotation: snoozing is a good thing -- who doesn't like to take a nap! Snuggling is also a good thing.

Another example that I read about recently is the change in name of the (in)famous cigarette maker Phillip Morris Co. to "Altria". When I first read about this, I didn't make the connexion (I thought maybe it was a new car model or something). Anyway, Phillip Morris (a nasty sneaky slimy purveyor of perfidious poisons!) apparently claims that the name is derived from Latin "altus", meaning high & lofty. Presumably the phonosemantics here are much like we see in car brands like "Altima". A linguist (Steven Pinker) saw it rather differently: connecting the new deathstix maker's name with the word "altruism" and thus connecting cigarettes with lofty & humanitarian goals. This is a most excellent example of the direct manipulation of phonosemantics for the purpose of at least trying to alter people's negative perceptions of an obviously noxious product into a more positive perception.

The latter, I don't think any natural language does, but I think would be a fascinating grammatical feature. We do this sound alteration in English, though generally to show diminution or intimacy of relationship. One might refer to one's girlfriend as "sweetheart"; though when speaking alone with her, one might alter & soften the initial sound a bit to "shweety".

Again, neither of these things is entirely systematic -- and that I think is a Good Thing. It would be terribly tedious if I had to keep track of ánd decline or conjugate every single word depending on my present perception of it! I could very much see this as a kind of adjunct phonomorphology, though. This idea will definitely end up in the Thinkabout file!

One or two singers with non-obtrusive musical accompaniment could sound something like this, from Occitan:


oh I liked that music. It wasn't bad, and yeah I see what you mean. Though I'd probably like a little more music with it to help express emotion. Not too much like in today's world where some people put together as many sounds as possible, and as loud as possible (like rock) but a nice combination.


Half the fun of this exercise is sorting out what you'r like to hear -- and the other half is making that happen! :wink:

or this reasonable reconstruction from Sumeria:


I didn't really like this one as much, it felt a little empty to me, or it felt like I was waiting for the music to get exciting or pleasing but it stayed the same for me. Don't know how to describe that feeling but it just wasn't quite right.


Keep in mind this is an epic recitation, rather than a symphony -- the excitement will come mostly from the narrative rather than the music!


It would be more like a world where music is dominated by woman, but not specifically only for woman. Men can sing too, but many don't because it would be often be seen as "womanly". It would be kind of like hair styling, men can do it, but they don't do it lot.


Sounds like an interesting direction to go!

Among the Daine, it's almost always the boys that sing and make music, but it's not to say girls don't. It's more a communal vs. domestic distinction: when a girl sings, it's primarily a more intimate, family affair; when a boy sings, it's more communal. A bardic recitation or somesuch.

I wonder why C is such a dominant note. It's our tuning note for crying out loud. Could any other note be a tuning note, say A flat? Or is it just easier with a C? Is there a specific reason we made C such a dominant note?


I'm sure there is some complex and delicate dance between physics and acoustics and physiology that makes it seem like some tones are stronger or more vibrant than others.

And sure, there's no reason you have to tune a group of instruments using C. Orchestras always tune all the other instruments to the relatively untunable oboe, and they use A for the tuning note. Recorder groups tend to tune using C. Wind bands use Bb.

Posted April 13th, 2016 by elemtilas

Do you mean like "words that tend to be perceived as positive, happy and content tend to have 'soft sounds' while words that tend to perceived as negative or angry tend to have harsh sounds" or do you mean "words that be construed as either happy or angry in emotional content have two grammaticalised forms -- one with 'soft sounds' and one with 'harsh sounds' depending on the perception of the speaker"?


They don't "tend" to have soft or harsh sounds, they almost always have the soft or harsh sounds.

How bout' an example? The word afraid is Phuniwa and Duniga. Phuniwa is the soft equivalent and Duniga is the harsh equivalent. The soft version would be used when you mean no negative connotation to it. like when a mother is telling their child "do not be afraid", they would use a soft tone to help soothe the child. But if you were taunting someone by saying "What? Are you afraid?" You would probably use the harsh version because it has a negative connotation attatched to the word. Determining whether or not to use a soft or harsh tone would be challenging for others learning the language, but for native speakers it would be like second nature. Just like how we English speakers tend to know the sound of a word we've just learned just by looking at it even though some of the letters could have multiple different sounds. We just know how it sounds. Or it's like a Spanish speaker and knowing when to roll the r and when not to roll the r.

Yeah, it sounds pretty confusing. It's almost like learning two languages, but really think about languages like Japanese. They have Katakana, Hiragana, and Kanji! Children are constantly learning new words throughout elementary, middle school, and high school.

But not every word has both a soft and harsh equivalent. The word "I" is hweo. It has no harsh equivalent.

Though I've made it easier in a sense that there is a pattern between the harsh and soft equivalents of each word. Each soft letter has a harsh letter it pairs with in a sense. If you don't know the harsh equivalent you can figure it out. M=P, W=G, Ph=D, L=Ch, H=B, S=K, and Hw=T. So if you have the word Phunosu (which means angry), you would change the Ph to D and the S to K to get Dunoku.

Of course not all words follow this pattern but a majority do.

Posted April 16th, 2016 by Luna1239

Do you mean like "words that tend to be perceived as positive, happy and content tend to have 'soft sounds' while words that tend to perceived as negative or angry tend to have harsh sounds" or do you mean "words that be construed as either happy or angry in emotional content have two grammaticalised forms -- one with 'soft sounds' and one with 'harsh sounds' depending on the perception of the speaker"?


They don't "tend" to have soft or harsh sounds, they almost always have the soft or harsh sounds.


Okay! A very, very strong tendency!

How bout' an example? The word afraid is Phuniwa and Duniga. Phuniwa is the soft equivalent and Duniga is the harsh equivalent. The soft version would be used when you mean no negative connotation to it. like when a mother is telling their child "do not be afraid", they would use a soft tone to help soothe the child. But if you were taunting someone by saying "What? Are you afraid?" You would probably use the harsh version because it has a negative connotation attatched to the word. Determining whether or not to use a soft or harsh tone would be challenging for others learning the language, but for native speakers it would be like second nature. Just like how we English speakers tend to know the sound of a word we've just learned just by looking at it even though some of the letters could have multiple different sounds. We just know how it sounds. Or it's like a Spanish speaker and knowing when to roll the r and when not to roll the r.

Of course not all words follow this pattern but a majority do.


Far from confusing! This is actually rather brilliant and is probably one of the singular most interesting features of a conlang I've seen in a good while. The grammaticalization of speaker perspective.

It's one of those "wish I'da thunk of it first" things! If the rest of this conlang is even half so interesting, it would be pretty awesome indeed! 8)

I think in English, the best we can really manage is a system of intonation and some partial systems of affixes, but not a pervasive & nearly complete system of sound alterations. Chapeau!

(BTW, this has inspired me towards seeing how a similar construction might work in one of my conlangs -- so thank you much for sharing such creativity!)

Posted April 16th, 2016 by elemtilas

Far from confusing! This is actually rather brilliant and is probably one of the singular most interesting features of a conlang I've seen in a good while. The grammaticalization of speaker perspective.

It's one of those "wish I'da thunk of it first" things! If the rest of this conlang is even half so interesting, it would be pretty awesome indeed! Cool


Why thank you elemtilas! That's the nicest compliment I've heard since I joined!

The idea just, came to me. I wanted my language to be different and this idea literally just popped into my head. My conlang is still in the beginning stages. I've worked out some words and rules. I kinda jump around wherever ideas strike so I don't forget them later.



(BTW, this has inspired me towards seeing how a similar construction might work in one of my conlangs -- so thank you much for sharing such creativity!)


No problem!

And I'd love to hear about your conlang(s). This is my first conlang (not to mention con world) so I'd love to hear about what other people have created! :D

Posted April 17th, 2016 by Luna1239

The idea just, came to me. I wanted my language to be different and this idea literally just popped into my head. My conlang is still in the beginning stages. I've worked out some words and rules. I kinda jump around wherever ideas strike so I don't forget them later.


I find that this methodology works well. Just letting ideas jump out as they see fit. Keep that up and you'll have some awesome glossopoesy going on!

And I'd love to hear about your conlang(s). This is my first conlang (not to mention con world) so I'd love to hear about what other people have created! :D


Sure!

Take a look here for one.

And a very little about its world here and also here.

Posted April 17th, 2016 by elemtilas

@Luna1239: I'm looking forward to more.

Posted April 29th, 2016 by chiarizio

Sure!

Take a look here for one.


I really liked how the sentence structure changed depending on whether it's a statement, question, or command. That was something I never thought of! My conworld had been having trouble because I didn't know what type of sentence structure I wanted. I kind of wanted SVO, but I kept wanting to change it. Nice work there!

And a very little about its world here and also here.


Oh I see you mentioned heliocentrism. I today, just turned in a 4 page paper over the change from geocentrism to heliocentrism for my online class! To be honest I just love the topic! It's probably 3rd on my list of favorite models, behind the Thea Impact and Grand tack model.

Posted April 30th, 2016 by Luna1239

Oh I see you mentioned heliocentrism. I today, just turned in a 4 page paper over the change from geocentrism to heliocentrism for my online class! To be honest I just love the topic! It's probably 3rd on my list of favorite models, behind the Thea Impact and Grand tack model.


Certainly a bit of a debate, that. Some philosophers are of the opinion that Sawel is a vast star resting at the center of the entire Cosmos, and everything else revolves around it. (I think this is currently the opinion du jour.) Others say that Sawel is but one star among many. Oh, these philosophers and their constant questioning search for what they hope to be the truth!

If there ever was an impact or a cosmic thumbtack, of course, the locals would have no way of knowing or even conjecturing. And it's not that they don't know about planetary impacts - they can see the remains of a smashed planet beyond Ares after all.

Posted May 3rd, 2016 by elemtilas

Oh, these philosophers and their constant questioning search for what they hope to be the truth!


Exactly! Though I find philosophers very useful in my conworld because if I have something I can't explain than I can use a philosopher to justify or explain it (I try to explain things scientifically when I can though!)


If there ever was an impact or a cosmic thumbtack, of course, the locals would have no way of knowing or even conjecturing. And it's not that they don't know about planetary impacts - they can see the remains of a smashed planet beyond Ares after all.


Please, do explain. A smashed planet?

Posted May 5th, 2016 by Luna1239

Oh, these philosophers and their constant questioning search for what they hope to be the truth!


Exactly! Though I find philosophers very useful in my conworld because if I have something I can't explain than I can use a philosopher to justify or explain it (I try to explain things scientifically when I can though!)


Ah yes, they are very good at coming up with explanations for things. Mostly what they're good at, in the World anyway, is expending large volumes of hot air at what they call "symposion". Oh, and catered five course dinners. Can't have a proper symposion without a good nosh!

I don't mean to say they're a bunch of useless old wags by any stretch. They do indeed ponder some pretty serious topics and sometimes they even come up with an answer.

Like for example, they have adduced the Four Forces:
1. Love, the force of Creation and is more or less the glue that holds everything together (not just particles, but existence itself
2. Dwimmery (i.e. "deeper magics"), the interaction of physical matter with streams and currents of thaumic particles. It affects other forces and physical entities and can even affect changes upon their natures.
3. Affinity, a polar force of attraction (gravity, e.g.) and repulsion (magnets): yin/yang or hanan/hurin.
4. Balance, the Ideal of Existence, where all the polar forces of affinity, disaffinity, love and magic are "in their appropriate states". The universe, at such times, is said to be at Rest.

But philosophy can also be highly practical in nature. Take for example the following:

Philosophers of the Eastlands have promulgated the existence of a force that causes the attrition of singleton stockings from the laundry. Even in locales where Lord Handfast Maytagge's Self Actuating Laundry Device has not yet made its appearance, somehow, small articles of clothing always seem to disappear on wash day. This principle is well known to the Daine of Withwandie and Westmarche as well as the Men of the lands all over the Eastlands. Over the last century these Daine have taken a keen liking to Bierberry's Particoloured Stockings like pigs to muck. "There's always one what disappears when you wash a bunch, and that's a fact," complains one Daine of Auntimoany who has lost several singleton stockings to this conniving force of Nature, and who now has hardly any matched sets of stockings at all. Well, not that this loss would vex a Daine much. It is well known that they have absolutely no sense of colour matching, and will happily wear a green and purple plaid stocking on one leg and a blue, orange and pink spotted one on the other and still consider themselves niftily dressed indeed.

Now, if only these philosophers could sort out some way to keep this from happening in the first place...


If there ever was an impact or a cosmic thumbtack, of course, the locals would have no way of knowing or even conjecturing. And it's not that they don't know about planetary impacts - they can see the remains of a smashed planet beyond Ares after all.


Please, do explain. A smashed planet?


Near as anyone can figure. A relevant passage from the Chorography tells us about the first use of the telescope by astrologers:

I have made mention of a curious wonder that hight telespeculon. Originally invented by a spectaclemaker and artificer of old Hoopelle, Rolland D. Hay, in 1333, the telespeculon is an entirely technological device that makes use of finely ground crystal or even vitric lenses to magnify the images of far distant objects. The device languished for many years as a mere curiosity until the Alareian wars of the seventeenth century of the present Age, when the device was used to espy upon the Enemy and his activities. In after years, astrologers took an interest in the device in order to more clearly see the surfaces of the Moons, and in so pointing their telespecula skywards serendipitously discovered several more planets:
Beyond Ares, are four small planets that hight Demeter, Hestias, Pallades and Panacea; and also one broken halfworld that hight Ceres. While beyond mighty Nenurta are Warsuwanas and Posedonias. Who can say by what might of the spectacle makers craft many more planets shall be similarly discovered in the ages to come!

So yeah, they can see what appears to be a nice round world with a jagged chunk ripped out of it and a haze of muck all around. If only they'd bothered to look that way a century before...

What the locals dòn't know about is the visits of Spacefarers to that once greenish-grey world. Now, Spacefarers are nothing new. There are plenty of ancient artifacts on Gea that get ascribed as "works of the gods of old", and sometimes these transient Visitors are even witnessed going about their business.

On the planet in question, they had found a nice spot to mine for something or other. Along comes a wandering planetesimal and then, no more mining colony. Eventually someone comes along to investigate, finds the ruins and leaves behind a rather tasteful memorial to the dead miners.

Posted May 5th, 2016 by elemtilas

Is six months too early to bump this?

Posted October 7th, 2016 by chiarizio

Will there be more?
Luna, are you still with us?
When you started you said you were a high-school freshman or ninth-grader.
Is school working out for you?
For all I know you could be a college senior by now!

Posted December 25th, 2018 by chiarizio
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