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@Weird Occurance

Posted 1 Week ago by Riven

I haven't been gaslighting you in any way, and I don't think you're gaslighting me either. I think what's happening here is we both have trust issues and they're both coming out hard in response to small things that happen (like your posts getting caught up in denida's long-term shadowban). I think we're both emotionally strong enough to walk away from this friendship, but we don't have to.

If you want to talk about it, we can talk on facebook, or if you need it to be public we can talk here (I've set up this thread so only we can talk in it). I definitely don't want this to become yet another site crisis, but I don't have an issue with this stuff being public.

Also please for the love of god unblock tnu. The guy has enough abandonment issues as is, and I haven't talked to him in months. I promise I won't ever try to reach you through him ever again.

There are 47 Replies


Hey, thanks for making the thread.

I'm not ready to unblock, yet, so this is fine, but reiterating again, I'm not mad. Just frustrated or stressed, I guess.

You told Dooku there was some misinformation. I'm curious about that.

1 Week ago
Weird Occurance
 

So I don't know what elite told you about the ban but he definitely had the wrong impression with it when he posted it publicly, so I'm guessing he also paraphrased it to you. If he sent you screenshots though then no harm done.

Long story short though, you weren't targeted in the system, I just had it set up so that you could still see his posts, because you guys were both talking and it would've been weird if you couldn't see the posts he linked to you and the thing would've become public knowledge way sooner. I feel bad about having that secret for two months (while also having a friendship with you) but I'm in this weird position where I try to be one way but the integrity of the site demands that I be another way, so I just sort of do both. It definitely hasn't been great lately -- I feel like you're the most recent in a long string of friendships that I've lost over something that happened here. Maybe null's approach is best where I just don't discuss GTX0 stuff with him ever because those conversations turn dysfunctional very quickly. Or maybe we can just have separate GTX0 and non-gtx0 relationships -- I had something like that with poptart a long while back where he was banned on the site but we were still friends on messenger. I guess it's different when you feel targeted or your feel like you're not being heard on the site though. It might just be something I need to work on.

1 Week ago
Riven
 

He sent me screenshots.

I understand I wasn't tangled in the system. I understand you say Denida was shadow banned. He has disproven that this is the case by testing viewing the sites using proxies he's never ever used before.

And I could see more in that thread when viewing the post on data.

So like you said before, we still have some trust issues here.

And am not yet interested in talking about solutions for us to start talking on messenger again. I'm really cautious about this whole thing.

1 Week ago
Weird Occurance
 

He has disproven that this is the case by testing viewing the sites using proxies he's never ever used before.


I'm glad he doesn't believe it; that makes it easier to enforce.

I understand I wasn't tangled in the system.


And I could see more in that thread when viewing the post on data.


So what happened with you yesterday went like this:

  • I issued a pre-emptive warning because the thread you and CZM were in was starting to heat up a bit. No one was violating the rule yet, it just seemed like it was close.

  • Denida came in and did a denida thing (he's been doing this for months).

  • You started arguing with him in the thread. Because of how the system works, this means that what the rest of the site would see is you responding to posts that don't exist. So to keep the system's integrity up, I had to get rid of your posts too. Tagging them probably would've made more sense but I had a lot of spite built up for denida and wanted to make sure that he saw them, so I just put them under the system.

  • I then removed your primary ip address from the whitelist so you couldn't see his posts anymore and so wouldn't respond to "nonexistent" posts. I also figured it would be all right since you weren't talking to him anymore anyway and expressed something the other day about not wanting to see his shit anymore.

  • I was going to remove your other ip addresses from the whitelist too, but that would've required complex database queries, and I was doing all of this on a phone while on a very very short break from IRL. I figured it would be okay until I got some time again. It wasn't.

  • You must've switched to one of the other ip addresses and noticed that you could either see your posts or not -- that's you either being whitelisted or not. You must've assumed I was fucking with you, blocked me, maybe told elite because he sent me a bunch of messages too.

  • When I got some time again you had blocked me and elite had sent me a bunch of messages, and I really didn't want to deal with any of that (and was also still busy) so I just read them and ignored him.

  • When I got some time I decided to just reveal the whole thing. Anything else would've required more deception, and I'm trying to get away from being like that (outside of site security stuff I guess). That went about as well as I thought it would, but whatever. I knew this system would become public eventually anyway.

  • I also removed everything from the whitelist. All of your ip addresses and whatever elite got caught in.

    I probably should've told you about it after you stopped talking to denida -- my worry though was that you'd take that as me manipulating you and would reconnect with denida over it and tell him about it. I definitely didn't want to tell you while you were actively talking to him -- that's a bad position to put you in where you have to either break one friend's secrecy or keep secrets from another. Couldn't really blame you if I'd done that and you'd told him. IDK, I struggled with that because even as effective as it was at getting him off the site, it is inherently dishonest. There's a disconnect there between us having a good friendship and me wanting to be 100% honest with you and me trying to protect the site, which sometimes requires large amounts of deception to counteract even larger amounts of deception like ban evasion or impersonation.

  • 1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    You take this site and security far more seriously than I do.

    He has me blocked.
    I have no way of telling him anything.
    So you had days to tell me. And chose not to.

    And as another fact, I don't care enough about this site to care about the shadow ban or any of that. Or about how you keep this place secure. Or the crazy ban mechanics.

    It looked like you were fucking gaslighting me to see if Denida and I really weren't talking (because he saw more than me, how would I know that without talking to him?) And my first message to you was around those lines of seeing more on data than I do on my IP.

    But then I figured that was you testing me too, seeing if I'd call you on it, so you could accuse me of still being in touch with him or *something*. Which I'm not, but I didn't feel like dealing with any suspicion or manipulation or anything.

    This is just what I was thinking and feeling. Thought it might be of value to explain where I was coming from.

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    You take this site and security far more seriously than I do.


    Well yeah.


    He has me blocked.
    I have no way of telling him anything.
    So you had days to tell me. And chose not to.


    You had me and all of our mutual friends blocked and I could still reach you. Twice. If you really wanted to tell denida something you could have.

    I did forget that he blocked you though, I thought you blocked him, I guess because you were more upset about it and my brain did brain stuff.

    And as another fact, I don't care enough about this site to care about the shadow ban or any of that. Or about how you keep this place secure. Or the crazy ban mechanics.


    I got the impression a while back that denida was upset about me ignoring him for several months and was probably venting to you a lot about it. Or was upset at me for other reasons and was venting about it. Either way, as long as you were talking to him if I told you about it there would be a chance that you'd tell him.


    It looked like you were fucking gaslighting me to see if Denida and I really weren't talking

    But then I figured that was you testing me too, seeing if I'd call you on it, so you could accuse me of still being in touch with him or *something*. Which I'm not, but I didn't feel like dealing with any suspicion or manipulation or anything.

    This is just what I was thinking and feeling. Thought it might be of value to explain where I was coming from.


    Yeah dealing with deception can reallllly make you think crazy things about other people. I had some of that with you as well, but then I realized that maybe we were both just doing the same thing and the trust issues were just coming to the surface again. I don't know if there's a solution to that. Time, maybe.

    I don't have an issue with you talking to denida. I honestly don't have an issue with denida himself -- if he wants to quit following me around the site to harass me (and also chiarizio more recently) or if he wants to actually sit and talk things out I'd have no issues with starting over. If he's afraid of it being a trick we could do it privately-publicly like how this thread works.

    1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    You had me and all of our mutual friends blocked


    I actually only blocked you, knux, and tnu. I didn't need to block anyone else because we don't have many mutual friends.

    and I could still reach you. Twice.

    Because I told Elite to pass along anything you said.
    And because I let Dooku friend me. And permitted him to share what you asked him to share.

    If you really wanted to tell denida something you could have.

    Yes, but I'm not a fan of messengers.
    Elite and you are my only means of contacting Denida and I'm not relying on that.


    I did forget that he blocked you though, I thought you blocked him, I guess because you were more upset about it and my brain did brain stuff.


    Fair enough.

    I got the impression a while back that denida was upset about me ignoring him for several months and was probably venting to you a lot about it.


    He was actually quite entertained by you ignoring him. Not upset. He consistently told me he found it funny.

    Either way, as long as you were talking to him if I told you about it there would be a chance that you'd tell him.

    Maybe. Not if you told me in confidence and asked me not to tell. I'm pretty loyal.

    Yeah dealing with deception can reallllly make you think crazy things about other people. I had some of that with you as well, but then I realized that maybe we were both just doing the same thing and the trust issues were just coming to the surface again. I don't know if there's a solution to that. Time, maybe.


    Wish you'd brought some of your suspicions towards me up before. Would've been happy to discuss.

    I don't have an issue with you talking to denida. I honestly don't have an issue with denida himself

    -- if he wants to quit following me around the site to harass me (and also chiarizio more recently)

    or if he wants to actually sit and talk things out I'd have no issues with starting over.


    You'd have to talk to him about this. I can't.

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    I'm up for a serious discussion about anything at this point. The insanity's just, wow.

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Just making sure I can post here from another device

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    I may have accidentally added one of your ip addresses to the filter instead of the whitelist when I was redoing that. I'm pretty sure I caught all of those though. If something gets stuck, let me know.

    Also will still get to your reply in this post at some point.

    1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    I may have accidentally added one of your ip addresses to the filter instead of the whitelist when I was redoing that.


    Need this one, the one I've been using all day, and the Top Dog one for all intents and purposes. Those are my three mains.

    No rush, take your time. Just wanted to make sure this was accessible.

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Ok verified. Works for me on all my IPs

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Test again lol

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    I don't really have a response to most of your post -- you're basically arguing against my perspectives at the time, which just were what they were.

    Not if you told me in confidence and asked me not to tell. I'm pretty loyal.


    Probably. Didn't want to risk it though.

    Wish you'd brought some of your suspicions towards me up before. Would've been happy to discuss.


    No I mean these are things I thought after you blocked me. Conspiracy-theory-tier stuff. I blame 2020.

    You'd have to talk to him about this. I can't.


    That's just me venting. Though maybe he's read it -- he has been in this post. I've given up on me and him working things out but the offer stands.

    1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    So we’ve lost trust in each other. What would help?

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Any mistrust I have towards you is based on things you've done, like for example blocking me (twice now) without warning, blocking tnu, or saying one thing here and another privately, or basically anything you said in the thread I tagged (not the one with CZM, the one earlier this week) which kinda corroborates with some things elite said. It isn't full mistrust by any means, but it's enough to reach a perspective where I don't necessarily share things with you about how I'm managing Denida.

    Again, this is my perspective and how I feel (and why).

    I can definitely understand that you'd have mistrust towards me as well. I think I understand the block from your perspective and see how you just want to distance yourself from crazy potentially dysfunctional situations. That's very reasonable. I'm also probably very wrong about your perspective.

    1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    That's just me venting. Though maybe he's read it -- he has been in this post. I've given up on me and him working things out but the offer stands.

    So again you're admitting you are incompetent. Blocking everyone from posting in here so you can have a 'private chat' in a creepy way.

    Just for the record, I got permission to post this, before you give her the excuse 'I need to change your pw again.'

    ¤Ð£ŋįd@¤

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    So we’ve lost trust in each other. What would help?


    Maybe express why you mistrust me too. That's probably driving some of the things you've done that I had issues with.

    1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    ^ Another great example of why I have mistrust towards you.

    1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    Any mistrust I have towards you is based on things you've done, like for example blocking me (twice now) without warning

    You had an explanation this time. Laid out in a message and a post and an explanation from Elite.

    blocking tnu

    You’re not using this against me. You using him as a messenger is fucked up, or did you not know it gives him bad memories of something from when he was younger? I did this for his benefit. As I’ve explained to him already privately and public.

    or saying one thing here and another privately

    Fair.

    or basically anything you said in the thread I tagged (not the one with CZM, the one earlier this week) which kinda corroborates with some things elite said.

    Okay. And I tried bringing this up to you multiple times and you dismissed the topic every time instead of talking to me.
    As to what Elite said / corroborated, I don’t know what exactly you’re referring to.

    It isn't full mistrust by any means, but it's enough to reach a perspective where I don't necessarily share things with you about how I'm managing Denida.

    I don’t even care if you tell me how you’re handling your site. It’s not a big deal to me by any means.

    ^ Another great example of why I have mistrust towards you.


    Can’t argue with this one.

    Maybe express why you mistrust me too. That's probably driving some of the things you've done that I had issues with.


    1) Deleted (not banned) an account for saying things you didn’t like
    2) Admitted to manipulating me with the cassy2 account
    3) Admitted to manipulating me with basically anything relating to Denida - then explicitly lied when I asked if there was anything more
    4) Went behind my back with the fucking Mediator thread to tell CZM you’d hire me for that when you knew I was staunchly against it. As if this wasn’t you attempting to kill my reputation with the Discord that just broke off from your site that you knew CZM was a part of
    5) When I blocked you the first time, it was for extremely emotional reasons. And I told you (through tnu) it wasn’t your fault. You mentioned Damien to him - and the first things you said to me when I unblocked you were “You’re better off with me as a friend than not” - which was the most manipulative line anyone’s ever given.
    6) Changed my password of 16 years over a post you *knew* I made.

    I’ll try to think of more, but these are what come to mind initially.

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    You had an explanation this time. Laid out in a message and a post and an explanation from Elite.


    Fair. I looked through our old conversation from last time and yeah this was a better way to do it, so thank you.

    You’re not using this against me.


    I'm not using it against you, it just rubs me the wrong way. I had similar issues with aviatrix being friendly and then deciding she was going to cut him off. I feel protective towards tnu.

    You using him as a messenger is fucked up, or did you not know it gives him bad memories of something from when he was younger?


    Apparently tnu initiated contact with you -- I just asked him if he was still friends with you, and he must've told you I was asking about you. I didn't use him as a messenger until you had already used him as a messenger.

    I also wasn't aware of him having bad memories of being a messenger.

    I did this for his benefit.


    Well, it did the opposite.

    And I tried bringing this up to you multiple times and you dismissed the topic every time instead of talking to me.


    Okay yeah that's definitely on me then. Sorry about that.

    I don’t even care if you tell me how you’re handling your site. It’s not a big deal to me by any means.


    It's a big deal to me -- I take the security of the site more seriously than you do. Which is fine, that's just a way I am.

    1) Deleted (not banned) an account for saying things you didn’t like


    Fair.

    2) Admitted to manipulating me with the cassy2 account


    Also fair, and I'm definitely sorry for that one. IIRC, that's the one that was straight manipulation.

    3) Admitted to manipulating me with basically anything relating to Denida - then explicitly lied when I asked if there was anything more


    No, I explicitly admitted it:


    You: have you ever tried to use your manipulation powers on me (outside of the one time I know about)?
    Me: If it involves denida, yeah I've probably done it a few times


    4) Went behind my back with the fucking Mediator thread to tell CZM you’d hire me for that when you knew I was staunchly against it.


    I didn't know you were staunchly against it, because we weren't actually talking about it at the time. It made sense to hire you at that moment because the extent of our friendship at that time was you mediating between me and the rest of the community.

    As if this wasn’t you attempting to kill my reputation


    I have yet to try to kill anyone's reputation. That's a very underhanded thing to do.

    and the first things you said to me when I unblocked you were “You’re better off with me as a friend than not” - which was the most manipulative line anyone’s ever given.


    I did look that one up. What I actually said was:

    if you need to block me, please let me know what you're doing before you do it, I'll understand.

    but I think you're better off venting to me and letting me help you.


    6) Changed my password of 16 years over a post you *knew* I made.


    You had no issues with this at the time. And also I didn't know you had made it -- denida had been using your account like he just did in this very thread and that post looked like one of those.

    1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    Fair. I looked through our old conversation from last time and yeah this was a better way to do it, so thank you.


    I really kinda hate you thanking me for this. A bit fucked up. As for the rest of this, yeah. I actually wasn’t a complete ass about it this time.

    I'm not using it against you, it just rubs me the wrong way.

    I wouldn’t have done it if you didn’t do it last time.

    I had similar issues with aviatrix being friendly and then deciding she was going to cut him off.

    Getting off-topic. And you still never got her side.

    I feel protective towards tnu.

    So do I. And that’s why I blocked him so he wouldn’t be used.

    Apparently tnu initiated contact with you -- I just asked him if he was still friends with you, and he must've told you I was asking about you.

    Then he delivered a few word for word messages from you first without being asked. That’s why I had him respond for me because I figured you asked him to. And actually, I told him I was unstable without knowing he’d tell you that lol so this isn’t far outside the realm of possibility.

    I didn't use him as a messenger until you had already used him as a messenger.

    See above. Not sure if he started messaging because you or I told him to. And I don’t want this to turn into a discussion about how we treat a mutual friend. I’m willing to drop this topic if you are.

    I also wasn't aware of him having bad memories of being a messenger.

    Fair.

    Well, it did the opposite.

    And I gave him an explanation and public apology that was sufficient to him. So I’m sorry, and I get that you’re just looking out for him, but my interpersonal relationships don’t concern you. Boundaries, please.

    It's a big deal to me -- I take the security of the site more seriously than you do. Which is fine, that's just a way I am.


    Yeah. This is good because you’re the admin. Let me re-clarify; I told you before I am NOT a threat to this site’s security or integrity. You don’t have to trust me with its secrets, I don’t care, but understand I’m not out to get you.

    Also fair, and I'm definitely sorry for that one. IIRC, that's the one that was straight manipulation.

    Yep. And I have some questions about the identity of HaloHallow. I want to accuse you, but don’t have enough reason to.
    Were you actually really drunk the day you leveraged the Cassy2 accusation? I’ve been doubting that you were.

    Me: If it involves denida, yeah I've probably done it a few times

    Ok lol not to nitpick, but this doesn’t imply ongoing.

    I didn't know you were staunchly against it, because we weren't actually talking about it at the time. It made sense to hire you at that moment because the extent of our friendship at that time was you mediating between me and the rest of the community.


    Half true. I was in the process of posting arguments in the thread about how much I disagreed when you sent that message to CZM. Lol
    Side note, I can’t believe that was all the way back in March at this point.

    I have yet to try to kill anyone's reputation. That's a very underhanded thing to do.


    Guess we’re gonna have to chalk this up to a my perception of you thing then.

    I did look that one up

    Fair.

    You had no issues with this at the time. And also I didn't know you had made it -- denida had been using your account like he just did in this very thread and that post looked like one of those.


    Ok so. Before you replied, I was mentally crafting an apology for letting him post in this thread. Honestly, it was wrong of me because you did restrict to just us and I violated that, so I’m sorry on that front. It won’t happen again.

    However…

    He’s rightfully upset that people here (including himself) get banned without overt warnings saying what they did wrong — AND because you shadowbanned him without warning or explanation. It’s bad communication and bad practice and doesn’t assert which rules are being broken here.

    And then talking down to him in a thread he couldn’t respond in wasn’t really fair.

    Point is: I can empathize with how he’s feeling. So I let him, despite being aware of the ramifications it would have on your trust in me.

    As for other times I let him post as me, I’d have to explain on a case by case basis, which, frankly isn’t worth it to me if it isn’t to you.

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    I really kinda hate you thanking me for this. A bit fucked up.


    How is it fucked up to acknowledge that you're doing things differently this time because you thought the last way you did it was a mistake? And then to appreciate it?

    And that’s why I blocked him so he wouldn’t be used.


    I don't really understand that at all, but I don't think we're ever going to agree on that.

    Then he delivered a few word for word messages from you first without being asked. That’s why I had him respond for me because I figured you asked him to.


    Well, I didn't. I just asked if you had blocked him or not and he went from there.

    See above. Not sure if he started messaging because you or I told him to.


    Maybe neither.

    And you still never got her side.


    I haven't gotten it from her directly but I've gotten a lot of things from a lot of different people. It's more complicated, and I can see it from her point of view, but that doesn't mean tnu's point of view is invalid., EDIT: I got it on discord an hour ago.

    I’m willing to drop this topic if you are.


    Sounds good to me.

    So I’m sorry, and I get that you’re just looking out for him, but my interpersonal relationships don’t concern you. Boundaries, please.


    It does when those people contact me and I spend time consoling them.

    You don’t have to trust me with its secrets, I don’t care


    Isn't you caring about me not telling you about the shadowban thing the whole reason you blocked me? Or like, that plus all the various things in this post that we never talked about.

    but understand I’m not out to get you.


    I know. I'm not out to get you either.

    Yep. And I have some questions about the identity of HaloHallow.


    The only anonymous altname I've used on the site was a few months back where I posted "cry me a riven" -- I forget what name I used, but it wasn't that one. I also seem to have deleted that post.

    Were you actually really drunk the day you leveraged the Cassy2 accusation? I’ve been doubting that you were.


    Late-drunk sick, but yes. Was also quite drunk when I made my regrets post here. I tend to take bolder actions while drinking.

    Ok lol not to nitpick, but this doesn’t imply ongoing.


    Not to nitpick further, but I took the actual actions two months before then, so it was definitely in the past. But I'll grant you this point.

    Half true. I was in the process of posting arguments in the thread about how much I disagreed when you sent that message to CZM.


    Well, don't blame me for not knowing what you were going to post before you posted it. (Or before I read it).

    Guess we’re gonna have to chalk this up to a my perception of you thing then.


    Based on what?

    Before you replied, I was mentally crafting an apology for letting him post in this thread. Honestly, it was wrong of me because you did restrict to just us and I violated that, so I’m sorry on that front. It won’t happen again.


    You don't have to apologize. You just also can't blame me for not knowing whether a post you make is your or not.

    AND because you shadowbanned him without warning or explanation.


    I've given him a lot of warnings and explanations. The last one I made before the shadowban was:

    I contacted you privately about your posts as a user, and told you how they were making me feel. You didn't care and thought they were some kind of trick. So instead, I'm going to give you one last warning as a moderator before I take long-term action. Keep your harassment of me (or anyone else) to zero, find some other way to voice your concerns, or there will be consequences.


    The consequence in question was the shadowban, which went into effect 3 days later.

    I'm very lenient here. Too lenient, really.

    And then talking down to him in a thread he couldn’t respond in wasn’t really fair.


    I'm not talking down to him here, I'm explaining what things look like from my perspective.

    1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    Oh, you know, it seems I *completely* misread the intent of this thread you made. I *jokingly* referred to it as a cage match, because, well, stupid me thought it was actually about finding a peaceful resolution. But boy was I wrong. This is a pissing contest to see who’s more self-righteous and respectable. Given this turn of events, allow me to suspend my tact and join in 😊

    How is it fucked up to acknowledge that you're doing things differently this time because you thought the last way you did it was a mistake? And then to appreciate it?


    Because you’re still thanking someone for blocking you, even if it is in a better way?

    I don't really understand that at all, but I don't think we're ever going to agree on that.

    Well, I didn't. I just asked if you had blocked him or not and he went from there.


    Cut the crap. If you didn’t intend to use him to find out about me, why did you message him about me? Honestly, Xhin, you have a HUGE superiority complex when it comes to this and that’s not going to jive with me:

    You cannot claim to be protective of tnu if you’re ever going to use him to contact me. I told you last Saturday that I didn’t like that you used him to reach me last time. Knowing you wouldn’t give a fuck, I blocked him this time to prevent it from happening again. Tnu has his own baggage and issues and you claim to be so protective of him, but choose to complicate his life by making him a middleman, without even considering that he might be the worst person for this given his sensitivities. I had no problem with you using Elite or Dooku, even Denida. But tnu? Is there a reason you feel the need to rely on the most emotionally vulnerable person on GT for stuff like this?

    Sure I blocked him. And I knew it would hurt him. But I also talked it over with him publicly the next day… AND never intended for blocking him to be a permanent thing. Just long enough that it’d keep him out of my interpersonal bullshit drama with you.

    With the added benefit of ensuring you wouldn’t have a need to tell him more of my personal shit to get him to contact me on your behalf in a way you knew would bother me to get me to write you – e.g. your “Damien’ing” comment last time. If I wasn’t in touch with him, you wouldn’t have a need to say something to him that’d piss me off.

    Maybe neither.


    I looked back yesterday. The day I first had you blocked, he asked if I was okay and I told him that IF you asked him about me, to just tell you I’m sorry. That’s the *ONLY* thing I asked of him that day. And right afterwards, when you started asking him to tell me things, I told him I wasn’t going to use him as a middleman. So I guess I was first to have him deliver a message. During a day I was completely unstable and irrational. Later on, I told him I wasn’t exactly rational and you started telling him to tell me you weren’t stable either and that you thought I was Damien’ing me, etc etc etc.

    So sure, I *guess* I started it. But never intended to use him like a messenger for a full-blown conversation.

    EDIT: I got it on discord an hour ago.


    Didn’t actually believe you on this until I saw she sent me some of what she said back to you on Discord, which I guess also speaks to my levels of trust in you. Still, glad this finally happened.

    It does when those people contact me and I spend time consoling them.


    Oh, contradicting yourself now? What happened to all the times you told me not to interfere with problems between two friends? Does that not sound familiar? And the greatest irony is – if you never mentioned me to him, he never would’ve realized he was blocked. I wasn’t going to have him blocked for more than 24 hours. And I already explained why. And like I also said earlier, you use the most vulnerable person on GT to play middleman just because it’s a mutual friend. So tell me more about how my interpersonal relationships are any of your business?

    I don’t get involved in your friendships, squabbles, or anything else. Stay out of mine.

    Isn't you caring about me not telling you about the shadowban thing the whole reason you blocked me?


    The results of the shadowban, not the shadowban itself. Like I said, it felt like you were gaslighting me because I’d see different things from different IPs and didn’t understand why. And it felt like you were testing me like you did before with gauging my reaction to Cassy2.

    Or like, that plus all the various things in this post that we never talked about.


    This part is probably more accurate.

    The only anonymous altname I've used on the site was a few months back where I posted "cry me a riven" -- I forget what name I used, but it wasn't that one. I also seem to have deleted that post.


    How do you not remember the name of an alt? lol I mean, I guess it could’ve been gibberish or something but it’s weird to forget lol

    Late-drunk sick, but yes. Was also quite drunk when I made my regrets post here. I tend to take bolder actions while drinking.


    Gotcha. I think you got rid of your Regrets post too, right? I couldn’t find it a few weeks ago when I wanted to refer to something in it.

    Based on what?


    Based on the fact that you say you weren’t out to attack my reputation, but I actually *really* believed you were. Like, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    You just also can't blame me for not knowing whether a post you make is your or not.


    You have the ability to check IPs. You are the site admin and I was pretty sure this is what admins do. And I figured you would’ve done that before resetting my password back then, too, because it was posted from one of my three common IPs, not a proxy nor Denida’s IP.

    I've given him a lot of warnings and explanations. The last one I made before the shadowban was:


    I contacted you privately about your posts as a user, and told you how they were making me feel. You didn't care and thought they were some kind of trick. So instead, I'm going to give you one last warning as a moderator before I take long-term action. Keep your harassment of me (or anyone else) to zero, find some other way to voice your concerns, or there will be consequences.


    The consequence in question was the shadowban, which went into effect 3 days later.


    My GOD I remember when you said that. That was a long while back.

    But is not a proper moderator warning. Not to echo Denida’s points, but, a true moderator warning is something along the lines of “You saying [this] is harassing a user and violating [this rule]. If this continues, I will be taking action as a moderator and you will be kicked from the site for [x days, weeks, months].” Applies in every situation and tells the person exactly what they’ve done wrong and what actions will be taken. It’s more… respectable than just issuing a cooldown ban without an explanation or issuing a secret ban behind the scenes. I feel like people (in general) would respond better to this because it reinforces the rules and shows where the line was crossed as a true slap on the wrist.

    I'm not talking down to him here, I'm explaining what things look like from my perspective.


    Kind of wish you’d take this up with him in a thread he can actually talk to you in.

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Oh, you know, it seems I *completely* misread the intent of this thread you made. I *jokingly* referred to it as a cage match, because, well, stupid me thought it was actually about finding a peaceful resolution. But boy was I wrong. This is a pissing contest to see who’s more self-righteous and respectable. Given this turn of events, allow me to suspend my tact and join in


    I do still want a peaceful resolution, and I think the point of this thread is to try to communicate better. I definitely came off as judgmental in my last post though -- I tend to get that way when I'm defending myself. But you're right, I don't need to get that way if I want a peaceful resolution. So I'll try to do better about that moving forwards.

    Because you’re still thanking someone for blocking you, even if it is in a better way?


    I wasn't thanking you for blocking me, I was thanking you for being more direct about why. I then read your "That's fucked up" as saying that me thanking you for being direct was fucked up. It's just a bunch of miscommunication all around -- that's probably what our dispute comes down to in the end.

    If you didn’t intend to use him to find out about me, why did you message him about me?


    At the time you didn't tell my why you were blocking me, so I assumed it had something to do with the discord events (which were still fresh) and started thinking up crazy conspiracy theories about you having just been catfishing the entire time we talked and then blocking us when you were "done".

    Like yeah, I get that that's not a rational set of thoughts, but the block happened very unexpectedly without warning, it was fresh on the back of the discord events which were pretty bad to everyone involved, and also on the back of 2020 where the conspiracy theory mindset really shone through.

    In any case I wanted to see if you had blocked him too because I knew he was also friends with you and I wanted to see what the extent of it was. Funnily enough, this kind of situation literally happened a few days ago -- several people blocked both me and tnu without warning or explanation. That's what I was afraid was happening with you.

    Though to be fair that is probably also a giant mountain of miscommunication and confusion. I do try to remember that we're all still riding on 2020 -- you get in these situations where it feels like you and your friends are sane but everyone else is mental, but in reality you're also one wave short of a shipwreck.

    With the added benefit of ensuring you wouldn’t have a need to tell him more of my personal shit to get him to contact me on your behalf in a way you knew would bother me to get me to write you – e.g. your “Damien’ing” comment last time.


    I mean I genuinely thought you may have been catfishing me. I guess I didn't really communicate that well.

    So sure, I *guess* I started it. But never intended to use him like a messenger for a full-blown conversation.


    I didn't either, until it looked like you were already doing that.

    What happened to all the times you told me not to interfere with problems between two friends?


    That was friendly advice for your own sanity, not some moral standard that I adhere to. I tend to not adhere to it in any way and it causes a lot of interpersonal issues with both friends and stress.

    And the greatest irony is – if you never mentioned me to him, he never would’ve realized he was blocked.


    Well this time around I didn't talk to him first, he contacted me (after like a month of not talking to him) and was really upset about being blocked. Our conversation literally looked like this:


    4/30 tnu: (some comment about gtx0 spiders)
    6/7 tnu: why did weird occurance block me? (paraphrasing here)


    You had just blocked me too so we had a conversation about it, and he was really upset over it.

    The results of the shadowban, not the shadowban itself. Like I said, it felt like you were gaslighting me because I’d see different things from different IPs and didn’t understand why. And it felt like you were testing me like you did before with gauging my reaction to Cassy2.


    Well that's fair. That's really on me for not removing all of your whitelisted ip addresses at once -- I guess what would've made sense was just emptying that list completely like I ended up doing anyway.

    And yeah I can see how the testing-gauging thing with cassy2 would make you feel gaslit and mistrustful. I really need to quit doing that kind of thing especially in cases where there's a lot of miscommunication and I'm not reading people's motivations well at all.

    How do you not remember the name of an alt? lol I mean, I guess it could’ve been gibberish or something but it’s weird to forget lol


    It was a one-off post, didn't use it for any purpose but to jump on the anti-riven bandwagon.

    I think you got rid of your Regrets post too, right?


    Yep. I purged a bunch of stuff.

    Based on the fact that you say you weren’t out to attack my reputation, but I actually *really* believed you were. Like, beyond a shadow of a doubt.


    Have I given any indication of trying to attack other people's reputations? Like I'm not judging you here, I'm just curious if this is something you've internalized or if I need to work on something myself.

    I have to go IRL, I'll be back later.

    1 Week ago
    Riven
     

    I do still want a peaceful resolution, and I think the point of this thread is to try to communicate better. I definitely came off as judgmental in my last post though -- I tend to get that way when I'm defending myself. But you're right, I don't need to get that way if I want a peaceful resolution. So I'll try to do better about that moving forwards.


    I appreciate this. There’s no need to be defensive with me. Nothing I say is meant to be taken as a personal attack. That’s not my style lol

    It's just a bunch of miscommunication all around -- that's probably what our dispute comes down to in the end.


    You keep saying we’re experiencing lots of miscommunications and misunderstandings. I agree it’s probably a factor in this dispute.

    At the time you didn't tell my why you were blocking me, so I assumed it had something to do with the discord events (which were still fresh) and started thinking up crazy conspiracy theories about you having just been catfishing the entire time we talked and then blocking us when you were "done".


    Fair, I think we discussed this before. And that time it was only you I blocked.

    Like yeah, I get that that's not a rational set of thoughts


    I’m wary about new people. To me, it’s not irrational lol

    but the block happened very unexpectedly without warning, it was fresh on the back of the discord events which were pretty bad to everyone involved, and also on the back of 2020 where the conspiracy theory mindset really shone through.


    Yeah and I’m not proud of this. We had a very good conversation the day before and I had gotten pretty good vibes from you leading up to this. So I was *extremely* conflicted about blocking you that day.

    In any case I wanted to see if you had blocked him too because I knew he was also friends with you and I wanted to see what the extent of it was.


    Yeah, like I said, it was a preemptive measure to stop you from contacting me through tnu (again). I don’t mind you going through literally anyone else lol

    Funnily enough, this kind of situation literally happened a few days ago -- several people blocked both me and tnu without warning or explanation. That's what I was afraid was happening with you.


    Oh, really? I hadn’t heard about this. Then again, I don’t know most people’s GT-alliances.

    I mean I genuinely thought you may have been catfishing me. I guess I didn't really communicate that well.


    You did after the fact, but no, I wasn’t, nor have I ever catfished anyone…

    … Although I met one girl on omegle and we talked to a few months and I lied to about literally everything about me, but that was harmless email contact that felt like writing a penpal and was back in 2010 lol I don’t have the time or mental focus for that sort of shit now. lol

    Now that I’m thinking about it, it’s actually more likely that *you’re* the catfish haha Seriously, I offered to call you one time early on and you said no, I offered to send you voice clips, which you just didn’t respond to, and I still haven’t even seen a picture of you that wasn’t on your profile since 2017, despite sending you a few pics of me… seeing as you say you have a phone now, wouldn’t be hard for you to send a pic either lol How do I know you’re not catfishing me? 😊

    I didn't either, until it looked like you were already doing that.


    I appreciate that “looked like” are the operative words here. More of that misperception stuff, I suppose.

    That was friendly advice for your own sanity, not some moral standard that I adhere to. I tend to not adhere to it in any way and it causes a lot of interpersonal issues with both friends and stress.


    Sounds more like a double-standard lol but hey, if you want to torture yourself, go for it. Just don’t be self-righteous with me when you don’t understand the nature of my friendships, actions, or thought-process.

    Well this time around I didn't talk to him first


    News to me. I hadn’t spoken to him in weeks so I just sorta assumed you must’ve written him first.

    Then again, he and CZM had a fight that day too, so he was probably trying to message me about that.

    It’s karmic, really, because I probably contributed to CZM having a short-fuse and so CZM fighting with tnu and so tnu tried contacting me about it and that revealed the fact that I had blocked tnu. That’s kismet for you lol

    and he was really upset over it.


    I can imagine ☹

    Have I given any indication of trying to attack other people's reputations? Like I'm not judging you here, I'm just curious if this is something you've internalized or if I need to work on something myself.


    Uhhh your extremely bold regrets post that you purged was pretty pointed and cold to the people in the Discord.

    And you have a condescending way about you sometimes with people like Denida.

    I’m sure some fraction was internalized, but these immediately come to mind.

    I have to go IRL, I'll be back later.


    Hope your day hasn’t been too bad.

    1 Week ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Oh, really? I hadn’t heard about this. Then again, I don’t know most people’s GT-alliances.


    It may have been unrelated.

    Seriously, I offered to call you one time early on and you said no, I offered to send you voice clips, which you just didn’t respond to, and I still haven’t even seen a picture of you that wasn’t on your profile since 2017, despite sending you a few pics of me… seeing as you say you have a phone now, wouldn’t be hard for you to send a pic either


    I'll send you one if you ever unblock me. I don't really have a social media presence, as you pointed out a while back -- I looked at it and I've had 6 unique pictures of myself on facebook in 10 years. I think a lot of that has to do with being old-school internet -- when I first went on the internet everyone was adamant about not ever giving out your real name or picture or anything traceable to you, but that's somehow flipped into "share everything about you including what you had for breakfast today".

    As for calls, there are a bunch of tangled issues there (including thin walls lately). I would like to do that eventually, but it's really nothing personal -- I don't call my IRL best friend either, and I've known him for 16 years now.

    That’s kismet for you lol


    What is kismet?

    Uhhh your extremely bold regrets post that you purged was pretty pointed and cold to the people in the Discord.


    Okay yeah that's fair. I wasn't trying to destroy those people's reputations though, I was just expressing how I felt about those people at the time. That was a pretty rough post though.

    And you have a condescending way about you sometimes with people like Denida.


    I mean, if someone is breaking rules repeatedly and I go into moderator mode over it, yeah I'll take on an authoritarian tone.

    Hope your day hasn’t been too bad.


    It's been hectic. Hope your days have been going good as well.

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    I'll send you one if you ever unblock me.


    I’ll probably hold you to this. Lol

    I don't really have a social media presence, as you pointed out a while back -- I looked at it and I've had 6 unique pictures of myself on facebook in 10 years. I think a lot of that has to do with being old-school internet -- when I first went on the internet everyone was adamant about not ever giving out your real name or picture or anything traceable to you, but that's somehow flipped into "share everything about you including what you had for breakfast today".


    I know what you mean. I also find this shift odd. I don’t care a lot about social media use outside of staying in touch with people.
    I don’t know why anyone cares about everyone’s personal, tedious bullshit activities in throughout the day. It’s odd. I’d much rather just talk to people like a sane human being than stalk someone’s mundane life lol

    As for calls, there are a bunch of tangled issues there (including thin walls lately). I would like to do that eventually, but it's really nothing personal -- I don't call my IRL best friend either, and I've known him for 16 years now


    Lol most guys don’t like talking on the phone. And most people in our generation avoid it in general. lol I can only imagine what it’s like coupling those factors with limited privacy.

    I care less about this, really. Was just bringing it up lol

    What is kismet?


    Kismet means fate.
    And I think it’s basically fate that I probably led to czm getting mad at tnu which led to tnu trying to message me and realizing the block.
    Ironic too.

    I was just expressing how I felt about those people at the time. That was a pretty rough post though.

    Yeah I get it.
    Note to self: don’t piss xhin off

    It's been hectic. Hope your days have been going good as well.

    Very likely wasted multiple weekends doing a long tedious grind in a video game for nothing.
    So not hectic. Just mildly enraging lol
    Hang in there!

    ¤¤♅êîrÐ Øccu®@n瀤¤

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Sorry for using that proxy before.

    Filter 32 caught my posts for some reason..

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Filter 32 caught my posts for some reason..


    Yeah I see that. No idea why at the moment -- it's name-based, not IP-based. May have hit one of the other security systems. I'll try to replicate it when I get some time freed up tonight.

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    it's name-based, not IP-based.


    Yeah, I figured that out when Denida posted as me the other day.
    Up until then, I thought it might've been IP-based lol

    No problems with it until today, curious why the filter caught it. If I mistyped my password, that would've been an identity error instead, right?

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Very likely wasted multiple weekends doing a long tedious grind in a video game for nothing.


    What happened?

    No problems with it until today, curious why the filter caught it.


    Me too, but not curious enough to do deep detective work on the logs (the shallow detective work has left me with more questions than answers). If it happens again I'll look into it more, but maybe it was just a one-time glitch.

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    What happened?


    Been playing through a game in Japanese and a bonus disc for it looks for a save file on the memory card. That bonus disc is completely untranslated and what I expected wasn’t happening so I *assumed* my save file wasn’t being read.

    Turns out all’s good, was just missing something obvious. Crisis averted. But damn I wasn’t going to be happy if those hours were wasted.

    If it happens again I'll look into it more, but maybe it was just a one-time glitch.


    Fair enough lol



    Oh and, out of curiosity, why can’t some proxies see some of my responses in your shatterloop thread?
    Not sure if I should be concerned

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     


    Been playing through a game in Japanese and a bonus disc for it looks for a save file on the memory card. That bonus disc is completely untranslated and what I expected wasn’t happening so I *assumed* my save file wasn’t being read.

    Turns out all’s good, was just missing something obvious. Crisis averted. But damn I wasn’t going to be happy if those hours were wasted.


    Well, glad it worked out, even if it took a while to figure out. Are you playing it in japanese to speedrun it faster or something?

    Oh and, out of curiosity, why can’t some proxies see some of my responses in your shatterloop thread?


    Fixed, recycled them all.

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    Are you playing it in japanese to speedrun it faster or something?


    Japanese bonus disc functionality requires Japanese save file.

    But you’re into soeedrun stuff too?? I *love* watching and learning about speedruns, especially for SNES games like DKC and Super Mario World.

    Fixed, recycled them all

    Thanks!

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Japanese bonus disc functionality requires Japanese save file.


    Weird. So the bonus disc is japanese but the rest of the game isn't?

    I *love* watching and learning about speedruns, especially for SNES games like DKC and Super Mario World.


    Same! My personal favorite channel for the that is summoningsalt. I also like pretty much anything that has to do with speedrunning SM64, because the speedrunner community has gone high-tech crazy with it.

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    Weird. So the bonus disc is japanese but the rest of the game isn't?


    Oh no. They both are. It’s just that I can’t find translated text for the bonus disc so I’m at a loss with it.
    The main game I know *pretty well* so the Japanese hasn’t been… too problematic. Just weird to adjust to.

    Same! My personal favorite channel for the that is summoningsalt. I also like pretty much anything that has to do with speedrunning SM64, because the speedrunner community has gone high-tech crazy with it.


    Oh nice!! My favorite speedrunner is V0oid. He’s held DKC world records and is really nice.
    Wish we could’ve talked about this before. Over Memorial Day weekend, he hosted this yearly special called V0oidathon, where he had a full weekend of hosting a ton of streamers playing through various games. There was a four or five way SM64 race with all the old greats. Was really really cool.

    I’m assuming you watched videos explaining the 0-Star TAS strat?
    I’ve been *really* into Stryder7x’s YouTube, too. He speedruns Paper Mario AND talks a lot about crazy game crashes, memory overflow, and comments over his speedruns to teach the strats.

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Over Memorial Day weekend, he hosted this yearly special called V0oidathon, where he had a full weekend of hosting a ton of streamers playing through various games. There was a four or five way SM64 race with all the old greats. Was really really cool.


    Oh man that would've been awesome to see.

    I’m assuming you watched videos explaining the 0-Star TAS strat?


    Yeah a bunch of them. Have you heard about the recent (relatively speaking) 1-key TAS strat?

    I’ve been *really* into Stryder7x’s YouTube, too. He speedruns Paper Mario AND talks a lot about crazy game crashes, memory overflow, and comments over his speedruns to teach the strats.


    Is that the guy who said something about hitting the same block in paper mario for 133 years or something?

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    Oh man that would've been awesome to see.


    Found a link!
    https://youtu.be/UeTWg4rIc1M
    Have you heard about the recent (relatively speaking) 1-key TAS strat?

    Oh I don’t think so!

    Is that the guy who said something about hitting the same block in paper mario for 133 years or something?

    Yes! And baking the cake for 7 years lol

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Found a link!


    Will watch when I eat again -- which I'm not hungry for some reason so that might be tomorrow.

    Yes! And baking the cake for 7 years lol


    Yeah, another good one. I like his videos.

    Oh I don’t think so!


    Oh man that one's pretty crazy:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjge1bVobN0

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    Will watch when I eat again -- which I'm not hungry for some reason so that might be tomorrow.


    Sure, hope you enjoy!

    Oh man that one's pretty crazy:


    Ooooh just skimmed the link - turns out I did hear about that!

    So crazy that people figure this stuff out.


    Did you see the new Paper Mario route that requires messing with your save file with an OOT cartridge swap?

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    So crazy that people figure this stuff out.


    Well it did take a team of like 6 people and 5 months or something equally absurd.

    Did you see the new Paper Mario route that requires messing with your save file with an OOT cartridge swap?


    WHAT. That sounds crazy. How.

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    Well it did take a team of like 6 people and 5 months or something equally absurd.

    I mean, even so, it’s kind of crazy.

    That sounds crazy. How.


    Good thing you’re more technical than me because you’ll understand it better but here’s the explanation lol:
    https://youtu.be/O9dTmzRAL_4

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    Good thing you’re more technical than me


    You manage programmers, you're more technical than you give yourself credit for.

    Also will watch that as well.

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    Hope you enjoy that one, too.

    And I think all my programmers are currently very frustrated with me bc corporate bullshit so don’t give me too much credit lol

    I need to get to bed. Talk more tomorrow! :)

    6 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

    And I think all my programmers are currently very frustrated with me bc corporate bullshit so don’t give me too much credit lol


    Sounds like corporate bullshit is the actual problem.

    Also I turned Denida's shadowban off, so if you encounter a situation where you can sometimes see his posts and sometimes not moving forwards, that's the site being glitchy and I'll just dump the database completely.

    6 Days ago
    Riven
     

    Sounds like corporate bullshit is the actual problem.


    Very likely.

    Also I turned Denida's shadowban off, so if you encounter a situation where you can sometimes see his posts and sometimes not moving forwards, that's the site being glitchy and I'll just dump the database completely.


    Good to know, thank you.

    5 Days ago
    Weird Occurance
     

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