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The Conculture Dialogue Game - testdrive your conculture!

Posted Over 11 Years ago by chiarizio

[unparsed]Copied from http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?t=34846

[size=9:2382ea97ee][i:2382ea97ee][color=#999999:2382ea97ee](I've asked Torco's permission but he hasn't replied yet; if he wishes I didn't copy his idea I'll have to remove this thread, I guess.)[/color:2382ea97ee][/i:2382ea97ee][/size:2382ea97ee]

Somewhat redacted quote: Torco wrote something like:
[quote:2382ea97ee]It's easy to forget that your conculture has people in it, who face real situations and who have real conversations about issues that matter to them.

So the game is this: A player writes a dialogue playing out what would happen in a given situation in a way that reflects one of their conculture's attitudes, meanings, and positions relating to that particular situation, and then posits a situation for the next player. They then do the same.

Extra credits if you add a small explanation of why that particular dialogue reflects that culture's way of significating that particular situation.[/quote:2382ea97ee]

See the thread on the ZBB for several very good examples so far.

I'll make the setup for round one here:

[color=darkblue:2382ea97ee][size=15:2382ea97ee]A young woman who has just left school in the city moves back to the suburb where her aunts and uncles live. She has found an apartment or house to live in. She wants a job and she wants a boyfriend. (A roommate who'll share rent might be nice too.)
Some people come over to welcome her to the neighborhood. She sort-of-recognizes the young woman; can't quite remember her name, but she's seen her around. She's never seen the young man before but she thinks he's sort of nice-looking.

What's it about?

Beginning adulthood; Achieving independence; The perils of independence; Making new friends; How to figure out if a person of the opposite sex is available or not; How to find out if s/he's attracted to you or not; Cutting the "apron-strings" from your elders; Not alienating your elders when you do that.[/size:2382ea97ee][/color:2382ea97ee]

[color=#999999:2382ea97ee][i:2382ea97ee](I may not be very good at this game. If this is a bad setup for a first story, someone else give a better one. I'll try to write my story based on one of the first new setups someone else gives.)[/i:2382ea97ee][/color:2382ea97ee]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To show my own effort, here's my work-out of the last situation proposed on the ZBB thread:

situation: a child discusses joining the military with a parent
possible issues: parental roles, the military, age of consent, duty, gender

Dramatis personae:
Ilesh, a 17-year-old woman
Isnaj, her 14-y/o brother
Elyag, their mother
Somat, their father

[b:2382ea97ee]Ilesh:[/b:2382ea97ee] Apa ([i:2382ea97ee]"Dad"[/i:2382ea97ee]), Ama ([i:2382ea97ee]"Mom"[/i:2382ea97ee]), it's time for me to join the army. I want to join the Border Patrol. Ama, can I have your old bow and buckler?

[b:2382ea97ee]Elyag:[/b:2382ea97ee] Well, yes. You can try on my armor, too; it doesn't fit me anymore, and I think it will fit you.

[b:2382ea97ee]Isnaj:[/b:2382ea97ee] Cool! I'll have a sister in the Border Patrol!

[b:2382ea97ee]Somat:[/b:2382ea97ee] Hold on! You're not required to join for another few months, when you turn 18! And besides, if you join the Border Patrol you'll spend half your time hundreds of miles away.

[b:2382ea97ee]Elyag:[/b:2382ea97ee] It's true there are many other branches of the military you could join, and stay close.

[b:2382ea97ee]Somat:[/b:2382ea97ee] Sure! You could walk the top of the city wall; or ask questions of the people asking permission to enter the city gates; or you could watch the crossroads, either in the city or in the country.

[b:2382ea97ee]Ilesh:[/b:2382ea97ee] But, Apa, it's [u:2382ea97ee][i:2382ea97ee]boring[/i:2382ea97ee][/u:2382ea97ee] to stay too close!

[b:2382ea97ee]Somat:[/b:2382ea97ee] I don't want my only daughter taking risks she doesn't have to take!

[b:2382ea97ee]Ilesh:[/b:2382ea97ee] Watching crossroads at night is more dangerous than patrolling the border! And walking the wall-tops is for people who are happy to spend all day watching clouds and birds, and never saying more than two words a day to anyone else!*

[b:2382ea97ee]Elyag:[/b:2382ea97ee] Well, if you want to talk to foreigners, why not join the Gate Guards?** They have to talk to strangers nearly all day! And, you don't need as much kit; you'll be able to go back to a house or an apartment every day.

[b:2382ea97ee]Somat:[/b:2382ea97ee] That's right. We could save up to buy a horse for your brother when he's old enough to join the Border Patrol, if that's what he wants to do; I don't think we can afford a horse for each of you.

[b:2382ea97ee]Isnaj:[/b:2382ea97ee] Oh, am I going to get a horse? Great!

[b:2382ea97ee]Ilesh:[/b:2382ea97ee] Alright, Ama, I'll join the Gate Guards instead, but I want to join tomorrow, not wait until I'm 18.

[b:2382ea97ee]Elyag and Somat together:[/b:2382ea97ee] Then it is agreed.


  • (The people who watch from the tops of the city walls mostly regard just seeing each other from a distance as enough human contact to count as keeping up their acquaintance. They say "hello" and "goodbye" to each other when their watches begin and end, and otherwise don't talk to anyone at work unless something special comes up.)

  • (Essentially sort of like a Customs and Immigration department for the city.)

    ---------------------------------------------

    (I don't know if mine is as good as any of those on the ZBB thread are.)

    [color=olive:2382ea97ee]Issues:
  • Parental roles; Parents have control of a youngster until a certain age, then have an advisory role. Also, parents feel bound to do their best to provide their children with the materiel they need to start their independent adult lives.
  • the Military; The police and the military are nearly the same thing; the city in question is not near an ocean so the Navy isn't even mentioned. It's happenstance (or, my mistake) that nothing about the river patrol or lake patrol is mentioned.
  • Age of consent; It appears to be 18.
  • Duty; People have a duty to serve in some part of the military when they reach adulthood. Parents have a duty to see that their children are ready to do so.
  • Gender; Military service is required regardless of gender.

    This issue wasn't mentioned in the setup, but:
  • Personality/occupational fit; Different jobs and different organizations fit different personalities better. The wall watch is mostly people who don't need to talk a lot. The gate guard is mostly people who are not the least hesitant about striking up conversations with strangers nor learning new languages. The border patrol is for people who don't mind being far from home and camping outdoors and walking a lot, provided they have plenty of friends nearby. Some of the other jobs are for people who don't mind working alone and/or at night. And so on.[/color:2382ea97ee]

    • There are 8 Replies

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    [unparsed]Shameless necro.
    Didn't anyone like this?
    Did everyone think it was redundant?

    Over 10 Years ago
    Quote Edit
    chiarizio
     

    [unparsed][quote:7335ce801e="chiarizio"]Shameless necro.
    Didn't anyone like this?
    Did everyone think it was redundant?[/quote:7335ce801e]

    I liked it, but part of it is giving the next person some kind of situation to work with for theirs. Even if they don't follow the proposed situation exactly, they might find the closest equivalent the culture has.

    For example, if someone suggested "A young man gets reprimanded by his boss. He feels it was without reason, but being his first job, he doesn't want to be fired. How does he handle it?" and I were to answer with one of my Tarn cultures, it would probably involve a young female who was new to the harem getting a talking to from one of the parth for gathering food too slowly, even though the new female was given the worst area of the beach to search. She would probably ask the male or one of the other parth if she could take up baby-sitting duty next time.

    Even though I answered that myself, I'll leave that as the new prompt:

    "A young man gets reprimanded by his boss. He feels it was without reason, but being his first job, he doesn't want to be fired. How does he handle it?"

    Over 10 Years ago
    Quote Edit
    bloodb4roses
     

    [unparsed][quote:5cbdb7b685="bloodb4roses"]I liked it, but part of it is giving the next person some kind of situation to work with for theirs. Even if they don't follow the proposed situation exactly, they might find the closest equivalent the culture has.[/quote:5cbdb7b685]Oh. I didn't know that, but it happens I did leave a proposed situation; I guess for some reason no-one noticed it. Here it was:
    [quote:5cbdb7b685="I"]A young woman who has just left school in the city moves back to the suburb where her aunts and uncles live. She has found an apartment or house to live in. She wants a job and she wants a boyfriend. (A roommate who'll share rent might be nice too.)
    Some people come over to welcome her to the neighborhood. She sort-of-recognizes the young woman; can't quite remember her name, but she's seen her around. She's never seen the young man before but she thinks he's sort of nice-looking. [/quote:5cbdb7b685]

    [quote:5cbdb7b685="bloodb4roses"]For example, if someone suggested "A young man gets reprimanded by his boss. He feels it was without reason, but being his first job, he doesn't want to be fired. How does he handle it?" and I were to answer with one of my Tarn cultures, it would probably involve a young female who was new to the harem getting a talking to from one of the parth for gathering food too slowly, even though the new female was given the worst area of the beach to search. She would probably ask the male or one of the other parth if she could take up baby-sitting duty next time.[/quote:5cbdb7b685]Thanks! Good!
    May I ask how the situation in my O.P. would be handled in one of your concultures? [color=#555555:5cbdb7b685][size=9:5cbdb7b685][i:5cbdb7b685](e.g."A young woman who has just left school in the city moves back to the suburb where her aunts and uncles live. She has found an apartment or house to live in. She wants a job and she wants a boyfriend. (A roommate who'll share rent might be nice too.)
    Some people come over to welcome her to the neighborhood. She sort-of-recognizes the young woman; can't quite remember her name, but she's seen her around. She's never seen the young man before but she thinks he's sort of nice-looking.")[/i:5cbdb7b685][/size:5cbdb7b685][/color:5cbdb7b685]

    [quote:5cbdb7b685="bloodb4roses"]Even though I answered that myself, I'll leave that as the new prompt:

    "A young man gets reprimanded by his boss. He feels it was without reason, but being his first job, he doesn't want to be fired. How does he handle it?"[/quote:5cbdb7b685]Thanks! I look forward to someone's response to that.

    Over 10 Years ago
    Quote Edit
    chiarizio
     

    [unparsed]I'm not any good at answering culture things, because my cultures aren't usually very developed or any different from the standard human culture.

    I'll try, though:

    [quote:d8a83e8cf6="bloodb4roses"]
    "A young man gets reprimanded by his boss. He feels it was without reason, but being his first job, he doesn't want to be fired. How does he handle it?"[/quote:d8a83e8cf6]

    In my most developed fantasy world:

    The Northerners would not feel it was without reason, because any hierarchy is based on inherent moral knowledge/divinity of a kind, so obviously he or she was just too stupid to understand the reason, and shame would result, along with possible suicide. If you want to have servants who don't kill themselves off in short order, you can't criticize them without good reason, and you have to explain how they are to remedy the problem in detail.

    The Southerners do everything on contract, if the criticism didn't have anything to do with payment, they would largely ignore it. If there was some sense of "I'm not paying you the full amount", they would probably kill the Employer for the offense and take the money (being short changed is a ticket to slavery in the afterlife for them, so it's the greatest offense). If in negotiating the next contract the criticism came up, they'd try to smooth it over and say it won't happen again, and there would be significant haggling in general until the contract was established.

    Easterners would just grin and bear it, for the most part, and not speak of it again, save with friends where they would bitch and moan about the injustice in private.

    Westerners would talk it out until there was mutual understanding, or until an elder had to step in and decide, expelling an unrepentant offender from the clan to die alone in the desert.



    Next:

    In a discussion, a social equal lies to one's face, with one knowing clearly that it is a lie; what does one do?

    Over 10 Years ago
    Quote Edit
    Blake
     

    [unparsed][quote:9102163745]The Southerners do everything on contract, if the criticism didn't have anything to do with payment, they would largely ignore it.[/quote:9102163745]

    The Imperials are pretty similar, here, although in the interests of self-improvement and better future business, they will at least examine the criticism to be sure it's invalid first. And if it does involve payment, and they're sure they delivered according to contract, someone's getting sued.

    [quote:9102163745]In a discussion, a social equal lies to one's face, with one knowing clearly that it is a lie; what does one do?[/quote:9102163745]

    I'm assuming here that we've already eliminated the possibility of this person being mistaken and not knowing he's lying; in any case, Eldraeic has an extensive set of evidentials and dubifiers, so one can say things one's not sure of without appearing to lie, so that happens a lot less often.

    Next comes the question of whether it's one of the set of socially acceptable "white lies" - helping someone else save face on a matter of opinion and of no particular substance, and suchlike. In which case, one probably lets it pass, unless it's something of substance to you and you don't mind incurring the enmity of the speaker.

    If it isn't, well, many people would consider it courteous to give them a chance to retract, so, one smiles and inquires gently if they might possibly be mistaken, or says one isn't quite sure one understood correctly and if they'd care to rephrase that. [b:9102163745]Everyone[/b:9102163745] knows what [b:9102163745]that[/b:9102163745] means, in practice.

    If they stick with it, then, options vary, depending on how important the matter is to you. At the low end, one can simply resort to the cut direct (something that's a lot easier with brain-mounted killfiles) and walk away.

    At the middle level of responses, one can "give them the lie" - accuse them to their face, and/or report their lying to the reputation networks, and dare them to do something about it. (Be prepared for the something to be a defamation suit or a challenge, if you go with this option, by making sure you can [b:9102163745]prove[/b:9102163745] that the lie was a lie.)

    And at the high level, you can file criminal charges against them for "Intentional Falsification of Information" (i.e., attempting to perpetrate a fraud on the public), or challenge them yourself. Mayhem ensues, and this is best reserved for the most significant categories of lies.

    Next:

    Your neighbor has an exceptionally ugly collection of lawn ornaments (or conculturally appropriate exterior decoration), which you're thoroughly sick of having to look at. How do you address the situation?

    Over 10 Years ago
    Quote Edit
    Cerebrate
     

    [unparsed](I should add that these rules don't just apply to social equals - per the Code, "all are equal in honor, as [i:3f9d773b24]daryteir[/i:3f9d773b24] [roughly, 'gentlemen']", and so much the same applies to social superiors and inferiors. Although some greater discretion may occasionally be called for, no-one gets peer support for a lie just because they're a member of a high-status group.)

    Over 10 Years ago
    Quote Edit
    Cerebrate
     

    Bump

    11 Months ago
    Quote Edit
    chiarizio
     

    I have a situation in Reptigan I want to make a dialog about.
    Wealthy-enough families in Reptigan frequently sponsor a poorer youth into the Space Corps.
    They may sponsor one such foster-child for each of their own children who enlist in the Corps.
    Or they may find more than one sponsored fosterling to be too costly.

    They also have class exogamy, at least for heirs. Often their fosterling is also a future child-in-law.

    Families who can’t afford to sponsor even one recruit all by themselves, but who are still rich enough to have something left over after putting their own children into the Corps, may and often do, band together to share sponsorship of a group-fostered youth.

    I want to write up a dialog within a family who are deciding whether or not they can sponsor or foster a young adult into the Space Corps; and who it will be if they do so.

    I’m not necessarily suggesting that my readers here try to handle the equivalent or analogous situation in their own concultures; but if you decide to, more power to you!

    But I want to remind myself to come back to this when I can.

    4 Months ago
    Quote Edit
    chiarizio
     

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