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jet presto plays zelda

Posted 8 Months ago by Jet Presto

So, since I've had a ton of time being furloughed, I've been trying to knock out a bunch of games from my backlog, or games that I downloaded because they were free at some point on PS Plus and I never got around to it (*cough* Mad Max *cough* don't bother with it). And as more and more people told me I should just get into Breath of the Wild, a game I admittedly feel a little iffy on given everything that I've heard about it, I would respond with, "I'm not really a big Zelda guy." While I've tried my hand at a few of them, the only Zelda game I ever beat was Ocarina of Time.

I figured, ya know what, though? Maybe now that I'm more of an action RPG guy, I can get behind this series. I should just do a "freshrospective." A retrospective on a series that I actually don't have much experience with. (Still workshopping the name.) I started with the SNES "A Link to the Past," mostly because I forgot that the Switch has that NES emulator and I could play the first two through that. (Not every Zelda game is going to be available to me, as I don't own pretty much any hand held gaming system. I'm just skipping them.)

But when I remembered that, I went back and played the original and some of Zelda II. I'm about to start Ocarina of Time, having beaten The Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past, and Link's Awakening. (I, perhaps predictably, gave up on The Adventure of Link. Got to Death Mountain and was just so fed up with it.) Here are some thoughts so far as a newby to the whole series:

1. THE LEGEND OF ZELDA

I feel like this is a game that is peak "you had to be there" to fully appreciate. Historically, I understand and recognize its significance. And even appreciate its design choices on the most part. But I don't think NES games have aged well, and I found it borderline unplayable. I got through it, thanks in no small part to the ability to perform copious amounts of save scumming (which I'm not gonna apologize for; I might have a lot of time, but I don't have *that* much time or energy these days, and I wanted to see what the rest of the game brought). A lot of it is just the practically ancient technology. Secret walls that you need to bomb are literally impossible to see (something they'd address almost immediately in Link's Awakening and Link to the Past). The total lack of direction I'm sure is appealing to the hardcore fans, but I dunno, I kinda needed a little more direction. More on that in a moment, though.

Bosses felt like a mixed bag, too. On the most part, I didn't have a miserable time with them, though I found the final boss to be kinda cheap. I actually had a much harder time with many common enemies. Like, those orange and blue knights who you can only attack from the side or behind but they also just stop and change direction on a dime was incredibly frustrating and cheap. And given the NES, trying to attack directionally felt suuuuper awkward and clunky.

Overall, it's one of those games that like, I know it's super important. I feel this way about the original Final Fantasy on NES, too. I recognize its significance, but I never played games until the dawn of the Willennium (my first console was a PS2 in like, 2002). So I don't have any nostalgia for it. And I also don't really love that kind of arcade-style game that's design to be brutally difficult. But I'm glad I played it, even if I cheated, as I got enough of the original experience to "get it."

2. THE ADVENTURE OF LINK

I appreciate the desire to try something different, but this ain't it! I know this game is sort of notorious, and rightfully so. It's, uh, bad? It's honestly more bad because it's just bad than it's bad because it's different. I don't necessarily hate the experience system, where you get points and can level up health, magic, and attack power if you want. The stacked number to level up each stat was kind of interesting.

But the core of the problem is this game is just not fun to play. I thought some enemies were cheap in the first game; holy crap are they cheap in this one. Sure, it's maybe not the hardest game that came out for NES, but it's still pretty difficult. And it's just not a fun combat system. I played up to Death Mountain, which was a few hours of gameplay for me. Not sure what percentage of the game it actually was, but I had to stop.

3. A LINK TO THE PAST

I actually think the SNES might be the console that holds up the best over time. I was a bit surprised at how playable this game was. There's still some awkwardness around diagonal attacking. And some of the bosses had frustrating gimmicks that bordered on cheap. I also felt like this one was actively fun, breaking from the previous two games. Like, I could see myself playing this game again in the future, whereas I'm absolutely never wasting my time with the NES games.

It also just looks better. The SNES's colorful sprites really give it that "classic" look that a lot of indie developers have tried to mimic. It feels a lot more stylized than simply dated. (Something that the age of "realism" struggles with - when I did my Splinter Cell retrospective, I was blown away at how awful those first three or four games look by comparison to the last couple. And I just don't think the more realistic 3D graphics of the PS1/PS2 era will age well.)

It also really got into the more diverse environments in a way that made it clear they were really focused on advancing this series. But I will say, this one like the original kinda made me wonder how on Earth I was expected to do this without the help of a guide. While slightly more focused, and willing to mark some objectives on your map, I felt like I had some idea of where to go or what to do, but there were a *lot* of places where I was just like, "Ok...now what?" Then I'd check a guide and be like, "WHAT? How the hell was I supposed to figure that out?" (At least in this game, they made bomb-able walls actually stand out so you could notice them.) And I'll also say that I will never not hate games that penalize you for going to bed. It's sooooo infuriating to beat a boss, grab that health container and have my life restored completely, then I save the game and quit so I can go to bed. Only to return the next day and it starts me in a different location (which is mildly annoying but fine), but it also costs me like, five hearts (which is not fine). Like, fuck off, Nintendo! I'm a human and I need sleep! I can't just sit and play your 10-15 hour game in a single day! Gimme a break!

4. LINK'S AWAKENING

So I played the Switch remake because that's what I own. I used to have a Gameboy Advance SP, but god only knows where it is at this point. Without question, this is the easiest of the bunch so far. Although I will say, it gets weirdly tricky in the final boss. Like, there's a stage where I found it next to impossible to avoid his attacks and hit him without taking damage. It felt like the difficulty just suddenly spiked at the end! Still, it ultimately took me just two or three tries before I got it. (By contrast, I kept getting knocked off the edge in the final boss in Link to the Past and it took me like, 15 tries - which, I know I just said I had fun with that game, but c'mon; just give me a fight that kills me. Ending the fight by knocking me off the edge is annoying.)

I also felt like this one didn't require a ton of guide checking for me. I try not to use a guide unless I feel genuinely stuck. Still had to refer to one often enough, but more or less even if I did, I'd find that I was kind of on the right track. Dungeons were also fairly easy to solve. Got stuck a few times, but think I only needed a guide at a couple points. The Switch version especially makes diagonal attacking substantially cleaner and easier, which helps. And the game definitely seemed to be more forthcoming with restoring health. (Link to the Past could be frustrating with how often I had half-health, would smash pots, and it'd be like, "Here are arrows you can't carry!" "Here are 5 rupees!" "Here's a couple bombs." Whenever I needed hearts, it felt like the game was going out of its way to NOT give them.) But that definitely helped make the game feel easier.

Wasn't into the art style of the Switch remaster at first, but by about hour 6, I realized that I was finding it really endearing. I was a bit curious though, since I never played the original Gameboy Color version: are there supposed to be these Mario things in the game? Like, there's goombas and the chomping ball dog things. There are side scrolling tunnels with pipes and the flower things. I think one dungeon even had Kirby as an enemy. Was that in the original game?

I don't think I died in this game except at the end in the final boss. There were still some moments where I'm like, "How was I supposed to know to do that without a guide?" But overall, this game - or at least the Switch version - felt pretty all ages for the first time. And I kinda really enjoyed that after two games that were nearly impossible and a third one that felt like a good challenge but nothing incredibly difficult.



So today I'm starting up Ocarina of Time, provided my N-64 still works (who knows? It's been a while). I think my plan is to play this and then Majora's Mask, then get Wind Waker (which I played a fair amount of before, though never finished), Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, and then finish up with Breath of the Wild. (I will chase it with some Cadence of Hyrule for good measure, but that won't really be part of the "retrospective.") I suppose there's a chance my friend will be able to lend me his Wii-U, in which case I could also play some of those 3DS games or whatever that are available on the Wii-U Virtual Console. But honestly, there's so many games I might just use the excuse to not play them all.

Do you Zelda fans think I'm missing something if I don't play Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Phantom Hourglass, or Minish Cap? Or do you think I should bug my friend about borrowing his Wii-U and adding them to the list? Which are your favorites? And what are your bets that, having really enjoyed Link's Awakening and A Link to the Past but never wanting to play The Legend of Zelda or Adventure of Link, that I get into Breath of the Wild?

There are 52 Replies


I can't really speak for Oracle. But I personally like Minish Cap quite a bit.

Breath of the Wild is literally a breath of fresh air for the series. They finally got away from the Ocarina of Time formula with it and the world is just so much fun to explore. It's a liiiiiitle tough at first, but it's not too hard once you get the hang of it. Basically, BotW is a game that will hopefully change how open world games are made.

A Link to the Past is one of the best Zelda games.

Can't believe you haven't played Zelda while playing Final Fantasy! The two have much in common, though Final Fantasy is better to me.

8 Months ago
Laxan
 

BOTW is one of my favorite games. Other than minish cap I never really got into the series so BOTW was a surprise treat for me.

8 Months ago
S.O.H.
 

I should just do a "freshrospective." A retrospective on a series that I actually don't have much experience with. (Still workshopping the name.)


Freshpective. You're welcome.

8 Months ago
Q
 

I wasn't a big fan of action RPGs for a while. If I were gonna do an RPG, I wanted something more menu-based or turn-based, so I was able to get into Final Fantasy, Chrono games, Breath of Fire, et cetera. I also remember giving both the original NES game and A Link to the Past a try waaaaay back when on an emulator back in the day, and not having any idea where to go or what to do. None of the Final Fantasy games are like that, really. So it was easier to get into that.

Just sorta realized that I've turned more into an action RPG guy after my love affair with Dark Souls. And there's definitely a lot more in common there.

8 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

Ooof. I can't quite tell if it's that my cartridge doesn't work, or my N-64 doesn't work. Damn, I wish I took better care of my older systems. Might have immediately run into a snag with this series now that I'm onto systems that are a bit more unreliable and everything is suuuuper expensive.

8 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

(Emulation.)

You played Kingdom Hearts, right? That combat is my favorite type of action RPG combat because it so fluidly combines the comnand menu with action! FF7 Remake did something similar.

8 Months ago
Laxan
 

I only have a Mac and there's not a ton of space left. I think my friend is checking to see if he has that GameCube re-release, which would be rad since I think that also has Majora's Mask. But my Zelda quest is momentarily on hold (I do want to play these before I move onto Wind Waker.)

I wasn't suuuper into the Kingdom Hearts combat system. I felt like I wanted it to be more either actually action or actually menu/turn-based. But I got the hand of it with relative ease and it wasn't bad. I really did love what they did with Final Fantasy VII: Remake. I really loved that game. Wild that was only a few months ago!

8 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

I know! I'm surprised to be actually looking forward to part 2.

8 Months ago
Laxan
 

1. THE LEGEND OF ZELDA


I feel like this is a game that is peak "you had to be there" to fully appreciate.


Well, this game was designed for people who would play some, then think about it or discuss it with friends, then play some more later. Gaming culture has changed a lot since its release -- these days you have either clear objectives (gross!) or you have better UX guiding you into being able to do whatever you need to do in the game to progress. Occasionally, you get a game where you don't have either, but the documentation or wiki makes up for it.

With Zelda 1, the arcane secrets were a core feature of the game because you were meant to play it in short bursts and think about it or discuss it with other people playing the game, in a localized way rather than a worldwide "I'm going to hack the ROM to figure out its secrets" way. We have a game culture now where playing a game "blind" is an alternative rather than the way you play every game.

It's, uh, bad? It's honestly more bad because it's just bad than it's bad because it's different.


Yeah zelda 2 is objectively bad. It's pretty cool if you like obnoxiously hard games though -- I have more of an appreciation for it now that I've grinded my way through most of the megaman X series.

I played up to Death Mountain


Death mountain is the place most people quit, so don't feel bad.

But I will say, this one like the original kinda made me wonder how on Earth I was expected to do this without the help of a guide. While slightly more focused, and willing to mark some objectives on your map,


Yeah this was definitely a problem back in the day before guides (or back when you had to get permission to tie up the phone line only so you could scroll through a long gamefaqs text document). Some objectives in earlier zelda games are ridiculous bullshit -- like for the first ten years of owning OOT I never knew the back alley was a thing.

So I played the Switch remake because that's what I own.


While it looks good (if you like claymation), the switch remake is missing a lot of the atmosphere of the original. They also ruined the face shrine song, which is unforgivable.

I was a bit curious though, since I never played the original Gameboy Color version: are there supposed to be these Mario things in the game? Like, there's goombas and the chomping ball dog things. There are side scrolling tunnels with pipes and the flower things. I think one dungeon even had Kirby as an enemy. Was that in the original game?


Yes!

Do you Zelda fans think I'm missing something if I don't play Oracle of Ages/Seasons, Phantom Hourglass, or Minish Cap?


The oracle games were fantastic, and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise. The others are up to you.

Don't play links on a train spirit tracks. The first couple hours are "This isn't so bad, idk why everyone hates it" and then you have to blow into the microphone with the right timing or you can't get any further.

8 Months ago
Riven
 

Ha, ok. I know the whole thing of Link's Awakening is that it's a dream and all, but I couldn't tell if this were Nintendo being cute in the remake since Nintendo is like, huuuuge now. Glad to know that was in the original, too. Really should try to figure out what the hell I did with my Advance SP... I checked a few boxes, but no luck.

I do like having that atmosphere of "go and explore!" I just feel like I need a little more direction than what those early games do. I kinda appreciate that after every dungeon in Link's Awakening, the owl gives you a clue. I appreciated that. Didn't feel like it was holding my hand exactly, but felt like it was pointing me in the right direction if I wanted to try to just immediately figure out the next place to go. I guess it's a fine line for me between a game being too linear (which I sorta remember being the case with Wind Waker for a while) and too open.

8 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

My god, the process for getting Ocarina of Time was just almost not worth it.

So my N-64 wasn't working, so I got another one from N-64. But only half of my cartridges worked, of which Ocarina of Time was not one of them. And getting a new one was just too much money. But my friend had a copy of the GameCube re-release. I don't have a GameCube but I do have a Wii. So he's lending it to me. But! My TV doesn't have anything other than HDMI inputs, so I had to get an adapter for the Wii. AND THEN, it turns out that while you can play GameCube games on Wii, you can't save data onto the Wii's internal storage or SIM card. So then I had to get a GameCube compatible memory card and...

...god. DAMN. Just release this for the Switch or better yet, remake it.

Anyway, it plays like garbage, ha. I honestly think every Zelda game I've played - except The Adventure of Link - plays better today than Ocarina does. Granted, I am playing with a GameCube controller. so maybe that's why it feels so different? But I mean, it just plays like garbage today. The inability to turn the camera is flipping brutal.

I'm sure I'll adjust. But I don't remember it being so very clunky. Though it also has been like, a decade and a half since I actually played it. That's a lot of years of modern stuff affecting what yI'm used to.

8 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

I was showing my little brother A Link to the Past on SNES Classic but he wasn't interested. Graphics were too bad for him and it's not flashy and exciting like Breath of the Wild or Fortnite. I never played the original LoZ games, but to me, the series started with A Link to the Past. Never played the more niche games like Minish Cap or Oracle of Seasons. I think my favourite is actually Twilight Princess because I remember playing it at my grandma's house in like '07 in a cold room with a giant freezer and it was the first Zelda game I ever beat.

8 Months ago
MarvaIo
 

#Emulation

(I know you said the hard drive space on your Mac was almost full...but...really, an N64 emulator and Ocarina of Time rom don't take much space on a hard drive.)

8 Months ago
Laxan
 

So my N-64 wasn't working, so I got another one from N-64. But only half of my cartridges worked, of which Ocarina of Time was not one of them. And getting a new one was just too much money.


Yeah those old systems wear out after a while but i've usually heard that N64 consoles last a long time. I know mine is still going. You might try getting a new power adapter for it to see if that helps. You can get knock off brand power adapters for around $15-$20. If it doesnt work you can always return it.

it turns out that while you can play GameCube games on Wii, you can't save data onto the Wii's internal storage or SIM card. So then I had to get a GameCube compatible memory card and...


Yeah, makes no sense when the wii supports SD cards that have way more storage. luckily you can get a GC memory card for less than $20 on amazon.

Anyway, it plays like garbage, ha. I honestly think every Zelda game I've played - except The Adventure of Link - plays better today than Ocarina does. Granted, I am playing with a GameCube controller. so maybe that's why it feels so different? But I mean, it just plays like garbage today. The inability to turn the camera is flipping brutal.


I have the GC re-release also that has the Master Quest included and I agree that it doesnt play as well as the N64 original. You'd be better off getting the Ocarina of Time 3DS version. It plays alot better.

8 Months ago
Q
 

Finished Ocarina of Time. I think overall, I settled into the dated core mechanics and gameplay that was intrinsic to the original just given it was a late mid-to-late '90s video game. Easily the area that was the worst in the translation to GameCube was the C-buttons. Granted, I can't tell how much might have just been my 20-year old GameCube controller being a bit worn, but trying to use an analog stick for that stuff which had previous just been "press a button" was, uh, pretty inconsistent. Overall, though, I did settle.

I found the dungeons to be less than stellar. The Water Temple is obviously the big one, but there's also the Shadow Temple. It's one thing to design dungeons in which you need to search it and obtain a specific item to advance further, like the hookshot or the bow or whatever. It's another thing entirely to require gear that you have to constantly navigate the menus to equip and remove. Just got tedious having to select menu, navigate the menus, and change your boots. Really disrupts the flow of gameplay, even though for sure it's not the worst thing ever in a video game.

I also admit to finding the story to be kind of a drag. I know it's not got a ton of it, but this is definitely the first time - 5 Zelda games in - in which I remember being like, "I can't just skip this scene, huh?" Doesn't happen often, and it's no Kojima game or anything, but there's definitely more of an effort to work in a central story to the game with some greater depth than the previous ones, and it kinda doesn't need as much as it does.

But, there is a reason it's an all-time great. The soundtrack remains among the best ever. I do sort of feel like it's the ultimate "had to be there" game. I definitely think about this a lot more now that I've got nephews and was involved with someone for a while who had a ten year old getting into video games, but I almost wonder how many people born in this Willennium or who grew up with like, a PS2 or PS3 (or currently a PS4 and this current gen) will be able to go back and play some of these classics. I think about the Final Fantasies and think, ok, those from a gameplay perspective hold up a bit because they're not action games. That style of combat might have died out over time, but it's not because mechanics got "smoothed out" or whatever. It just went out of fashion. But for an action/adventure game like Ocarina, imagine going to play it for the first time after playing all these modern games with smooth gameplay and pretty graphics and comfortable controls? And especially since Ocarina clearly influenced tons of games that we get even today. If you didn't grow up with it or play it for the first time in a relatively quick time, it's incredibly dated from a gameplay perspective as well as graphically (I care less about the graphics than the fact you can't really control the camera).

So I keep going back and forth about whether they should do something like remake it. They obviously can't re-capture the magic of the original game, but they could make it more modern, sleek, and playable by today's standards. Is that worth it? Or should they just forget about it and make the next Zelda game better than the last? Either way, they should definitely re-release it to the Switch so its more accessible to a wider audience.

My rankings so far in terms of how much I enjoyed playing them:

1. Link's Awakening
2. Ocarina of Time
3. A Link to the Past
4. The Legend of Zelda
5. The Adventure of Link

In terms of what I think are the "best games" from various different critical angles:

1. Ocarina of Time
2. A Link to the Past
3. Link's Awakening
4. The Legend of Zelda
5. The Adventure of Link


Gonna maybe wait to finish Rise of Tomb Raider before I jump into Majora's Mask, but I think it's the first one I have virtually no experience or real knowledge of. (I've never finished Link to the Past or The Legend of Zelda, but I had played them, and I even played about an hour of Link's Awakening on Gameboy way back when. And while I'd never played the Adventure of Link, I knew a fair amount about it, why it's generally regarded as bad, and had seen gameplay footage of it. I know literally nothing or have seen nothing from Majora's Mask besides hearing that many fans consider it the black sheep of the family.)

7 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

Early (like, first hour or so) impression of Majora's Mask: kinda funny that there's just like, no real difference in graphics from Ocarina of Time. Which is fine, just sorta funny.

But already one thing I'm not a fan of is the time. I hope it's not a huge part of the game besides this point, but having to wait "three days" to be able to advance is kinda killing me. Literally just been waiting for like, fifteen minutes for the game to let me advance. Not a huge fan of games that utilize time in this sort of manner.

7 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

A few new thoughts/questions:

1. Is Majora's Mask actually a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time? It really kinda felt like it was until I got a cutscene of Zelda giving Link the ocarina as he rides away on Epona, but that doesn't happen in Ocarina. So I gather this is sort of it's a totally separate adventure (which is how I've been understanding the first five Zelda games - TLoZ, Adventure of Link, Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, and Ocarina.

2. Is this gonna be a time loop game? Feels like that's the central gimmick of this game.

3. Is....is Majora's Mask basically just an asset flip? It looks and feels like all the same elements of Ocarina, but re-purposed into a new game. Outside the time gimmick (itself just sort of an expansion of the day/night cycle of Ocarina), nothing looks or feels particularly different. Doesn't matter if it's still fun, I suppose, but I guess I can understand why this game didn't necessarily explode in popularity or why it doesn't make it on all-time greatest games lists the way Ocarina did.

7 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

1. It is a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time. Link sets off in search of his friend Navi, whom left at the end of Ocarina of Time.

2. Yes. You have three days to do things, including finish a dungeon. Good luck! (You can slow down time, if that helps.)

3. Yep! It's an asset flip! Also, it controls slightly differently from Ocarina of Time (and perhaps better?)

While I do *like* the game, Majora's Mask is one of the most overrated games in the franchise, in my opinion. It was deemed a "deep" and philosophical masterpiece by a rabid fanbase shortly after some Youtubers began parroting the sentiment that it has so many layers of depth and symbolism...when really it was a rushed project that experimented like crazy while reusing assets from the more successful Ocarina of Time, and you can tell. Like, bad.

I like Majora's Mask, but the Internet's growing advocacy that it's an overlooked masterclass in gaming is one of the biggest overstatements I have ever read in all my years of loving games.

7 Months ago
Laxan
 

1. Is Majora's Mask actually a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time? It really kinda felt like it was until I got a cutscene of Zelda giving Link the ocarina as he rides away on Epona, but that doesn't happen in Ocarina. So I gather this is sort of it's a totally separate adventure (which is how I've been understanding the first five Zelda games


Yes, Majora’s Mask is a sequel to Ocarina of Time and the scene in which Zelda gives link the ocarina is supposed to be what happens right after link meets Zelda again at the end of OoT.

2. Is this gonna be a time loop game? Feels like that's the central gimmick of this game.


Yes you have 72 in game hours to save Termina, but it goes by incredibly fast. You’ll have to repeat the 3 days constantly to make progress and beat the game.


3. Is....is Majora's Mask basically just an asset flip? It looks and feels like all the same elements of Ocarina, but re-purposed into a new game.


Again, yes lol. If I remember correctly Majora’s Mask had an incredibly short development so the engine and assets from OoT were reused and enhanced.

There is a theory that Link dies at the beginning of the game when he falls down the hole and the rest of the game is about him coming to terms with it.

7 Months ago
Q
 

Kind of a late reply, but you should ABSOLUTELY play Oracle of Seasons, Oracle of Ages, and The Minish Cap.

Also, it's not really required reading, but I'd suggest checking out the official Zelda timeline. It doesn't have any real impact on the games, but it's interesting from a lore perspective.

7 Months ago
Axem Great Water
 

Definitely play Minish Cap! My personal favorite handheld Zelda game (the beginning gives me Chrono Trigger vibes and I love it!). :)

7 Months ago
Alan
 

I saw a pair of Oracle of Seasons/Ages on sale for pretty cheap. And also found the Gameboy Advance SP my friend gave me way back when, so I jumped on that and do plan to play those. (Does it matter what order?)

What system is Minish Cap on?

It is kinda funny going almost *immediately* from Ocarina to Majora's Mask. Like, everything at the very start feels so clearly a sequel, but then they show you the cutscene of Zelda giving you the Ocarina as you ride off on Epona, but I'm literally coming like, 36 hours from the end of that game and Zelda has the Ocarina and Link just gets warped back in time without the ocarina or Epona! Did they just forget? Or they sorta retconning?

It doesn't matter, especially knowing for sure now that it's supposed to be a direct sequel. Just a thing that contributed to some confusion at first.

One thing I anticipate coming to despise is the fact that you save the game by "resetting" the days. I've not been particularly pleased with the way any of these games deal with saving to be honest (except the remake of Link's Awakening definitely modernizes it, thank god). Kind of interested in the time loop mechanic, but already ran into a situation in which I literally had to just wait for fifteen minutes until the final night opened a door so I could continue and it's like, I have a hard time when developers aren't respectful of the player's time.

Seems like this might ultimately be a smaller game than Ocarina, so pretty curious about it. Is this and Ocarina really where the franchise "narrative" really starts falling off the rails a bit?

7 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

Minish Cap was GBA, but it's apparently available on the 3DS and Wii U. *Cough*Or the PC*Cough*

The order for the Oracles games doesn't matter, though I always preferred Seasons first and Ages second. Seasons is more combat-heavy, while Ages is more puzzle-heavy, if that helps.

7 Months ago
Axem Great Water
 

Minish Cap was GBA, but it's apparently available on the 3DS and Wii U.


Speaking of 3DS, if you don't have one and want to get one then you better get one soon as Nintendo announced they have discontinued production on them.

7 Months ago
Q
 

I looked into it and they're still cost too expensive for me in general, especially to *just* play a couple Zelda games. But I'm glad I found that Gameboy Advance SP my friend gave me way back when! I forgot that's also what I played Final Fantasy V on for the first time, too.

Been having a good time with these Zelda games on the most part! Glad to expand it where I can. Wasn't gonna get Majora's Mask or the Gameboy Advance games, but I'm looking forward to them.

7 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

The 3DS has a ton of great non-Zelda games, too.

7 Months ago
Axem Great Water
 

About Majora's Mask and time:

Definitely learn how to slow and skip time. To slow time I think you play the song of time backwards. And I think you can talk to the scarecrow to skip a day or something like that. And there might be a song to speed up time. You don't have to actually learn the songs in-game, just playing them will work. Slowing time makes the dungeons a lot less stressful.

7 Months ago
Vandy
 

Slowing down time has been immensely useful. Skipping forward? Eh. I keep trying to do some tasks that only become available at like, 3 pm, so I can skip ahead only so much, and then have to wait a while.

Trying to finish up Snowhead Temple at the moment. My god I hate this temple. And this boss. But I do like the idea that they're laying that some masks will ultimately transform you like the Deku mask.

I'm not in love with the game (though I like it), but I'm really impressed with the way they use pretty much all the same assets to make a game that feels almost completely different than Ocarina of Time. Going from Ocarina to Majora is kind of reminding me that it's totally fine to make my own board games using pieces from other games because it's the design that matters most.

6 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

I really hate the way to save the game, and I wish I could deposit items instead of rupees. I feel like rupees are super easy to come by, but every time I load up the game, i have to spend like, ten minutes regaining items. Pretty annoying.

6 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

Hey, Jet. Not to interrupt your thread, but are you on Discord by chance?

6 Months ago
Alan
 

join the discord join the discord join the discord

6 Months ago
poptart!
 

Er, haha! Well, I meant just to message each other privately. I wanted to ask him something as one of our first testers for Shrine's Legacy. :)

6 Months ago
Alan
 

yes but still join the discord, both of you

6 Months ago
poptart!
 

Oh, the Gametalk Discord!

I should probably do that...

6 Months ago
Alan
 

Where is the link to the Gametalk Discord?

NVM, found it.

6 Months ago
Alan
 

Where is the link to the Gametalk Discord?


It's at the bottom of the site.
https://discord.gg/dEcyenm

6 Months ago
Riven
 

Thank you!

My initial question still stands: Jet, are you on Discord?

6 Months ago
Alan
 

Ocarina of time water / spirit temples


They fixed this issue in the 3ds remake -- the iron/hover boots are an item rather than equipment.

Majora's Mask


It's an unpopular opinion, but I was never fond of this game -- and I played it when it first came out and have replayed it a bunch of times since then (including the 3ds remake which is a dumpster fire). Some of the problems that stood out were the game length, the saving mechanic (as you mentioned), several areas that involved a lot of backtracking, and the lack of memorable music or story. Don't get me wrong, the astral observatory and stone temple tower songs were fantastic, but that's two songs out of like thirty that stood out.

6 Months ago
Riven
 

Duuuuuuude! I agree with you SO much!

Majora's Mask is one of the most overrated games in the franchise, I swear.

6 Months ago
Alan
 

(including the 3ds remake which is a dumpster fire)


I'm curious, what about the 3DS remake makes it a dumpster fire? It has pretty positive reviews from both critics and users. I own both versions, and I remember a long time ago getting about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through the game before just getting exhausted from the constant time looping. I tried going back to it on 3DS but got too busy and forgot about it but I don't remember it being a bad remake so i'm just curious how it's a dumpster fire.

Majora's Mask is one of the most overrated games in the franchise, I swear.


I can agree that it got alot of undeserved praise but I think that was due to it being a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and having a darker tone. it's definitely the only one of 2 console Zelda's I haven't completed, with the other one being Skyward Sword.

6 Months ago
Q
 

Is it unpopular to not be fond of Majora's Mask? I feel like I hadn't really heard anything about it until recent years where people have come around to appreciating it more than it historically had been.

I generally enjoy it because the basic gameplay is fun, on the most part. Combat is pretty much the same as Ocarina, which - other than not being able to control the camera, really - has aged pretty well, all things considered! And masks that transform you spice up that gameplay so it feels different. It really doesn't just feel like another Ocarina of Time, despite being basically an asset flip from Ocarina.

But I definitely like and appreciate the *idea* of it more than the execution. A time loop game is such an interesting concept for this time of game (you could sort of make the case that like, all classic platformers are technically "time loop" games). But there's a lot that doesn't reeeeeeally work? They even had to kind of break their own rules at times to make it work at all. (So like, you keep key items like the bow, bottles, or masks, but you lose all your disposable items like bombs, arrows, or potions.) Or like how you can revisit temples and fight the boss again, but they specifically work in a teleporter so that you don't have to do the temple itself all over again. Which is good! I like when you can re-challenge bosses, and without doing the temples all over. But it kinda breaks the "time loop" nature of the game. Like they clearly understood that the time loop concept doesn't *quite* work for an action RPG.

And yeah, the only Zelda game so far that has had a save function that felt good was the remake of Link's Awakening, where it has a modern "save where you are and resume where you left off" philosophy. I don't know if that's how it were in the original Gameboy version of that. I don't *hate* Ocarina's save mechanics, where you restart at the nearest "starting point" of the game, or if you're in a temple, at the beginning of the temple. I find that generally annoying, but it's fine. Doesn't take *that* much time to get back. But like, Link to the Past penalizes you by knocking off a bunch of hearts if you save. And Majora's Mask removes all your items. It's like...why are you *punishing* me for going to bed???

I disagree Majora's Mask lacks memorable music though, but mostly because I think Ocarina had one of the most iconic scores of all time! (There have been a few new compositions here and there, but so far it's mostly been retreads.)

6 Months ago
Jet Presto
 

I like Majora's Mask just fine. It's a *good* game. It just isn't a great one. And it got a lot of attention out of nowhere when Youtubers started spouting the opinion that it's this great, underrated "deep" philosophical masterpiece where everyone has to come to terms with dying and....blah, blah, blah.

Yes, that is a bit of a thing in Majora's Mask. But it's not explored THAT deeply, geez.

6 Months ago
Alan
 

I'm curious, what about the 3DS remake makes it a dumpster fire?


A lot of stuff:

  • Zora swimming has been reworked to where it's no longer fun to use or even practical really in most areas. It's better in close spaces, but most of the game's zora swimming is not in close spaces.

  • Bosses have been significantly dumbed down and now require very specific strategies to beat, including an eyeball that appears to tell you their exact weakness. The old bosses required some skill and had multiple ways of beating them.

  • It's covered in the above point, but twinmold is goddamn awful.

  • Under remaked graphics, the moon looks awful -- totally misses the subtlety and off-putting-ness of its expression.

  • The remaked graphics brighten up everything, which decreases the overall atmosphere. Not a huge deal, but it contributes.

  • Can't use ice arrows anywhere. Like the zora swimming change, this heavily impacts extracurricular fun.

    I don't know if that's how it were in the original Gameboy version of that.


    IIRC you restarted in maron's house. Or you could restart at the first screen of a dungeon if that's where you were.

    I disagree Majora's Mask lacks memorable music though, but mostly because I think Ocarina had one of the most iconic scores of all time!


    Majora's mask started the trend of having dungeons not have music -- with the exception of the stone tower temple of course. One of the things I love most about OOT is the distinct compositions in each temple. Really adds to the atmosphere of the game.

    I like Majora's Mask just fine. It's a *good* game. It just isn't a great one. And it got a lot of attention out of nowhere when Youtubers started spouting the opinion that it's this great, underrated "deep" philosophical masterpiece where everyone has to come to terms with dying and....blah, blah, blah.


    Completely agree with Alaxan here.

  • 6 Months ago
    Riven
     

    "Alaxan" HAHAHAHAHA!!!

    I actually believe the trend of Zelda games having crappy "atmospheric" music in the dungeons began with OoT. Why else do you think the ONLY dungeon music anyone remembers is the Forest Temple out of the all the other Temples? And maybe Ganon's Castle had a bit of a memorable theme. Maybe?

    6 Months ago
    Alan
     

    And it got a lot of attention out of nowhere when Youtubers started spouting the opinion that it's this great, underrated "deep" philosophical masterpiece


    If I'm honest...I kinda feel that way about Final Fantasy IX. (Minus everyone calling it this "deep philosophical" game.) Like, I looove the game and think it's good and was underrated at the time, but I kinda feel like we've over-corrected. I've been replaying all the PS1/2 era FFs recently on my Switch and even without how garbage the port is, I honestly find it maybe the most boring one of the bunch (not that I would argue it is boring; just by comparison). And I don't find the limit breaks or ability systems to be all that engaging by comparison.

    6 Months ago
    Jet Presto
     

    Yes, I've already made a post about this called: The Growing Love for Final Fantasy IX vs. The Growing Love for Zelda: Majora's Mask.

    My TLDR version is: Final Fantasy IX is deserving of that love while Majora's Mask remains overrated and over-intellectualized. But I fear the growing love for FFIX also means that the fanbase is going to lose sight of what made FFIX so special to begin with.

    I promise you, I never will forget.

    Also, the ports blow. Pretty upgrade to graphics, but you can't even play multiplayer in FF9 like the original PS1 game!

    Nah, FF9 doesn't have boring systems. Learning abilities by equipping different equipment is one of the coolest systems I've seen in any Final Fantasy. And synthesis is awesome.

    6 Months ago
    Alan
     

    Also, the ports blow. Pretty upgrade to graphics, but you can't even play multiplayer in FF9 like the original PS1 game!


    I was today years old when I learned FF9 had multiplayer. How'd I never know this before?

    I do feel like FF9 didn't get the love it deserved because it came out 4 -5 months after the PS2 launched and a year before FF10 which was what everyone was excited about.

    6 Months ago
    Q
     

    Majora's Mask and its music:

    Disagree with it not being good / memorable. To me it adds a lot to the darker tone of the game. One example is how the soundtrack at Clocktown changes from days 1, 2 and 3. Day 1 starts out slow and pretty cheerful. By day 3 it's very ominous and the uptick in speed brings a feeling of anxiety. Though, I can see how this would be unappealing for some. But I believe that's the intent.



    Also not sure what you mean about temples not having music? Because they do. And much like Clocktown progression, they have an eerie vibe to them.

    ---

    Deku Palace is great, much like the already mentioned Stone Tower Temple.



    6 Months ago
    VandyInformer
     

    Definitely agree that there is "music" for each temple. Deku Palace and Stone Tower Temple themes ARE great!

    ....So, how about the rest of the dungeons?


    Oh.... :)

    (This isn't a stab at Majora's Mask but rather pointing out Koji Kondo starting the stupid trend of having shitty "atmospheric" music dominate in Zelda dungeons beginning with OoT. I hate it. So much.)

    6 Months ago
    Alan
     

    Also, the ports blow. Pretty upgrade to graphics, but you can't even play multiplayer in FF9 like the original PS1 game!


    I've had no problems with the VII and VIII ports. It's really only been IX that I've run into tons of problems. Fast Forward being *way* too fast. FF Chronicles-long loading screens. Bugs that literally freeze the game so I have to quit out. Have had none of those issues with the VII and VIII ports to Switch at any rate. (The Fast Forward function is overall a god-send though. I looove these games, but it really does help move things along.)


    Nah, FF9 doesn't have boring systems. Learning abilities by equipping different equipment is one of the coolest systems I've seen in any Final Fantasy. And synthesis is awesome.


    Just to be clear: I don't mean to say that I think IX has a boring system overall, and it's certainly a good and solid system. I just mean that by comparison, I spent more time considering my character builds and getting into junctioning and materia than I do what weapons I'll equip in IX. I think it's a better system than espers, since there's the added complexity around decisions like, "Oh, this weapon gives me 10 more attack power! ...but I haven't learned "level up" yet, so maybe I'll make that trade-off." (Whereas espers are just you assign them to a character and then grind, even though you can customize all of your players more that way; that's the downside in IX - I don't think there's quite enough diversity in abilities learned from the weapons. Everyone is learning loudmouth, everyone is learning bright eyes, everyone is learning level up, everyone is learning jelly...)

    If the North American release of X didn't keep you on a single track for so long, I'd even argue that late-game sphere grid is a little more engaging to me than IX's. (I give IX's the edge because boy does it take a long time for X to get there).

    I'd rank the most engaging and interesting systems for me to be:

    1. Materia
    2. Junctioning*
    3. Weapons**
    4. Espers
    5. Gambi
    6. Sphere Grid***
    7. Jobs
    8. Linear Progression
    9. Whatever the f--- it was called in XIII. Crystallarium? Or something?

  • I don't think the problem with VIII is the junctioning *system,* but the tedious way you draw magic and turn 30 second battles into 5 minute affairs. But assigning GFs and subsequent magic to different stat lines was pretty interesting and fun to me.

  • I'd place Weapons from IX below the "expert" sphere grid.

  • * But I don't think the "expert" sphere grid should be counted over the default sphere grid for the game.

  • 6 Months ago
    Jet Presto
     

    Well ok! It's coming along! Tonight I hunkered down and finished Twilight Princess. Probably the most fun of the 3D Zelda games so far. I haven't loved the camera and lock-on system in any of them so far, but it's not unbearable or anything. I didn't love playing as Wolf Link, but when all was said and done, it's not *that* much of the game that requires it. Thought they did a good job on the most part incorporating items/equipment throughout the game. It's felt sometimes like often you get an item just for one dungeon, but then you never have to use them again except if you want a bunch of optional goodies.

    I think Twilight Princess goes on the higher end of my rankings so far just because I think it was the cleanest to play, and it didn't feel as obtuse as some of the other games. But I can also see why long-time fans might not be super crazy about it. (I haven't heard anyone really say that it's bad or they don't like it, but I've heard several people talk about how they think it's just fine.)

    I had the GameCube version, and now I'm onto Skyward Sword, which I'm not super looking forward to as I kinda dislike motion controls. But we'll see how it goes.

    So far, I'd rank my favorites as:

    10. Adventure of Link
    9. Legend of Zelda
    8. Oracle of Ages
    7. Oracle of Seasons
    6. The Wind Waker
    5. A Link to the Past
    4. Ocarina of Time
    3. Majora's Mask
    2. Twilight Princess
    1. Link's Awakening

    This isn't what I would say is the ranking of "best" games, just my favorites so far to play. And I'll add the caveat that Link's Awakening I played on Switch. I dunno if I'd feel it were my favorite if I played the original GameBoy game, so make of that what you will.

    Also, it's so wild just how easy this franchise got, and how quickly it did. It's like, if it's a 3D Zelda game, it's gonna be cake.

    1 Month ago
    Jet Presto
     

    OOT and Twilight Princess are my favorites by far! I also like Wind Waker too alongside A Link Between Worlds.

    1 Month ago
    Rika
     

    Reply to: jet presto plays zelda

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