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Video Games

Bloomberg: Nintendo plans Switch model with 7-inch 720P OLED Display & 4K when docked

Posted 1 Month ago by ShadowFox08

Bloomberg: Nintendo plans Switch model with 7-inch 720P OLED Display & 4K when docked ; Mass production as early as June [Dev Kits going out]

Nintendo Co. plans to unveil a model of its Switch gaming console equipped with a bigger Samsung OLED display this year, hoping the larger touchscreen can prop up demand in time for the holidays, people familiar with the plan said.

Samsung Display Co. will start mass production of 7-inch, 720p-resolution OLED panels as early as June with an initial monthly target of just under a million units, said the people, who asked not to be identified discussing internal matters. The displays are slated for shipment to assemblers around July, the people said. Representatives for Nintendo and Samsung Display declined to comment.
Nintendo decided to go with rigid OLED panels for the new model, the people said, a cheaper but less flexible alternative to the type commonly used for high-end smartphones. The latest model will also come with 4K ultra-high definition graphics when paired with TVs, they said. That could intensify a longstanding complaint of developers, who have struggled with the difference in resolution between handheld and TV modes and now face a bigger gap between the two.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/bloomberg-nintendo-plans-switch-model-with-7-inch-720p-oled-display-4k-when-docked-mass-production-as-early-as-june-dev-kits-going-out.388253/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-04/nintendo-plans-switch-model-with-bigger-samsung-oled-display


Insiders have been saying 4k support for months now. How they could achieve this? DLSS support with a nvidia ampere chip (perhaps tegra orion variant). A lot of people are theorizing A78 CPUs with Ampere GPU rivaling xbone and ps4 GPU without DLSS support. we'll see in due time. I'm guessing we'll get a reveal in the summer and release 3-5 months later.

There are 13 Replies


Fudge. Please delete this thread. I thought it didn't post and it went to the Hell board.

1 Month ago
ShadowFox08
 

Damn. 4K makes sense for the UI, but I'm curious how they expect to achieve 4K in games. NVIDIA's DLSS 2.0 takes a performance hit on modern RTX cards, 1ms extra for RTX 2060 Super, in order to upscale the game properly to double resolution. We can't get that performance mobile just yet. Also, DLSS improves performance for heavy per-pixel effects like foliage, translucency, raytracing, advanced shaders, and post processing better than the cheaper shaders used in Breath of The Wild.

Nintendo is famously hush hush about hardware, I'm not sure what their end goal is, but if 4K is coming, don't expect 4K support for many titles.

1 Month ago
mariomguy
 

Also, taking a look at NVIDIA's Tegra products, The Nintendo Switch is using an underclocked Tegra X1 based on Maxwell architecture (Geforce 900 series) with 256 CUDA cores. The newest Tegra Orin in development has 2048 CUDA cores based on Ampere (RTX 3000 series).

Best case scenario, the new chip will be 8x more powerful, just naturally. And it will support raytracing and DLSS. So 4K with raytracing and DLSS support would not be out of the question.

1 Month ago
mariomguy
 

They'll patch their big games so that they have more pixels when it's played on the tv. Maybe they planned this from the start, so it's kinda like how Witcher 2 looks astronomically better on Xbox One X than on Xbox 360 even though it's a 360 game.

What's the "explain it to me like I'm 5 years old" on what raytracing actually is?

1 Month ago
Cactus Pants
 

So, imagine a shiny suit of armor. Right now, video games have no idea how to figure out the reflection for that armor. Doing it "properly" requires rendering a secondary 360 degree view of the world and mapping it to the armor, but doing that slashes your framerate in pieces because the entire scene has to be rendered many times. This is extremely rare. Other methods involve baking those reflections and mapping them as the character moves throughout the environment. So as the knight runs through the door and down the hallway, the reflection changes from a version suitable outdoors to one suitable indoors. Modern techniques involve taking information from the frame to figure out how things should reflect, but if the objects in the reflection don't appear in the snapshot, as far as the engine is concerned, it's invisible and doesn't exist. So modern games mix baking hundreds or thousands of reflection maps with this "frame" method (called Screen Space Reflection) to achieve reflections on objects that appear OK.

Obviously, there are limits to this. If something moves, or it's not in the frame, or the lighting changes, there's no way to get it in the reflection properly. And there is no sane way to get this reflection in realtime. And even the best methods today can't magically figure out how to get a proper reflection for a curved object, or reflection-bouncing like an infinity mirror, or inner reflections like diamonds.

But raytracing gets rid of all these problems. It shoots rays from the camera and bounces them around, getting reflections and multiple bounces of reflections for the entire frame. Raytracing has the ability to see everything in the world, even if you're not staring at it. The result is perfect shadows, perfect reflections, perfect AO, perfect everything.

The problem is this is expensive. There is a fixed cost to running raytracing, and even with everything developers have done, there isn't much more developers can do to lower this cost to sane and reasonable levels for all. Old hardware (1000 series and prior) is being asked to do things that it was never expected to before. But if the hardware can support it, with the right architecture and enough power, you can get perfect shadows and reflections just like a Pixar movie.

TLDR - It's perfect and beautiful. Everything else is fake and shallow.

1 Month ago
mariomguy
 

I don't think this revised pro model will be 8x more powerful out of the gate, not in GPU, without dlss at least. Especially if it's on an 8nm samsung node like the other ampere chips. But if it has an A78 core CPU, be it 6 or 8 cores will steam roll current Switch and Xbone x/PS4 Pro performance. Just one core at 1Ghz is more powerful than the 3 1Ghz A57 core cpus.

Orion actually does have a 15 watt chip in the pipeline, so that could be the chip used in this next switch model.

I don't expect ray tracing at all on this model and think it will be saved for the model after.

reset era has a lot of like minded people theorizing the next switch model hardware https://www.resetera.com/threads/future-nintendo-hardware-technology-speculation-and-discussion-ot-now-youre-playing-with-super-power.383900/
a lot of people are theorizing 6-8 core A78 CPU set up, 1.1 to 1.6 TFLOPs Ampere GPU, and 128 bit LPDDR5 RAM. in short, something equal to or more powerful than xbone s in GPU before DLSS, with a much more powerful CPU, and close to ps4 pro performance with DLSS.

An insider also stated that this model is meant to enhance performance and resolution first.

1 Month ago
ShadowFox08
 

What makes a GPU "Raytracing" capable are the physical RT cores that handle the raytracing stuff separate from everything else. It's dedicated hardware on the GPU designed to do some very specific things really fast. While any GPU in the world can process the calculations, it would be extremely slow and unplayable. For comparison, a $400 2060 can handle raytrace calculations 5x faster than the $800 1080, simply because it has the cores dedicated to do so.

DLSS is a technique that takes advantage of AI to upscale images without blurring. It has to be enabled per-game. Like raytracing, this runs better on dedicated AI cores. NVIDIA calls their hardware "Tensor cores." But there are fixed costs and limitations when using it:

- Typical extra 1ms to upscale on RTX 2060 Super, regardless of any other settings. Performance is dependent on the power of AI cores and little else.
- Requires a clear image coming in to upscale properly going out. So 1080 > 4K is going to look a lot better than 720 > 1440, or anything smaller to 1080.
- Benefits games with advanced effects and translucency over simple shaders. So Breath of The Wild and Smash Bros. would not benefit as much as games like Luigi's Mansion 3 or any game where you're constantly surfing over translucent water.

If you guys are interested I can explain more details and give dev info: we tend to get this stuff before the rest of the world does. But the bottom line is this: NVIDIA released their DLSS plugin to Unreal Engine devs for free, and Epic is working on their own solution similar to DLSS that would work for everyone. Raytracing is going to make games look amazing and get perfect results easier. Hardware support is unfortunately bogged down by scalpers and tarriffs, but once those go away we are looking at a graphics revolution unlike anything you've ever seen before. Imagine being able to play a game that literally looks like Toy Story 4, with the same level of detail, lighting, effects, and everything. That's coming.



1 Month ago
mariomguy
 

Yeah I'm all on board with DLSS, and I know what it's capable of. I read the reset era tech threads. But not expecting ray tracing at all. I have doubts it would fit in with the tensor cores,A78 cpu, ampere GPU, Ram and switch tech.. and even if could theoretically, I don't think nintendo for power consumption reasons. It also takes a ton of GPU power.The RTX 2060 performance Q seems to be the bare minimum for quality and performance with DLSS and it's sub 4 TFLOPs compared to the regular 2060 at 6 TFLOPs. I just don't think nintendo should bother until their next system.

1 Month ago
ShadowFox08
 

I'm not sure how long Nintendo plans on keeping the Switch. If their main goal right now is to just get 4K working so the menus and UI look cleaner, that's going to extend the Switch's life a bit. But in the long run they need to be able to support the new features coming out as well. The Korok forest in Breath of the Wild chugs down to 12-15 fps all because of the translucency. Part of it is the artists' fault for not caring too much about performance to get a magnificent appearance, but if they had resolution scaling or DLSS or simply beefed up the hardware, that would've helped significantly.

The new Tegra processer is looking really incredible. 8x more CUDA cores than the X1 when the Switch launched, bringing it closer to 2060 performance than you might think. But I'm not seeing any info on AI tensor cores or RT cores. It'll be Ampere without the features NVIDIA is boasting with Ampere. And Nintendo will NOT take this at base clock, it will be reduced to prevent overheating. I think it's just to improve the UI, nothing more. A necessity because the old chips might be discontinued.

1 Month ago
mariomguy
 

Well the president of Nintendo recently said that the Switch was in its midterm. So I do expect Switch support (at least 1st party) for at least 3 more years.

I think this new switch model will have better performance 1st party games, but also a few third party exclusives that just aren't possible on the current switch (assassins creed odyssey, cod, etc). Some of the cloud games on switch like Control and Hitman might actually come out natively on switch pro and perhaps 1440p-4k with DLSS.

If History repeats itself, I can see Nintendo replacing the current switch models completely with this newer model in about a year. But current switch handheld mode will continue to be supported for a few years (and all 1st party games), while current docked switch will be the new handheld mode (at least in GPU) for this upcoming switch model. I think this next switch handheld mode is basically going to be handheld 720p xbone if the higher CPU and higher bandwidth is taken advantage of.

It's gonna be weird man.. If it ends up being an ampere or similar with A78 CPU cores and something like LPDDR5 128 bit (will be 4x bandwidth of current switch), its essentially going to be a generation up in performance.. But from insiders are saying, it won't be advertised that way, at least not initially. RT won't be included because it's not even going to be powerful enough to handle it at acceptable levels I think.

And then 2 years later, 5nm switch pro XL and lite modes for better battery life.

1 Month ago
ShadowFox08
 

Well the president of Nintendo recently said that the Switch was in its midterm. So I do expect Switch support (at least 1st party) for at least 3 more years.




I think this new switch model will have better performance 1st party games, but also a few third party exclusives that just aren't possible on the current switch (assassins creed odyssey, cod, etc). Some of the cloud games on switch like Control and Hitman might actually come out natively on switch pro and perhaps 1440p-4k with DLSS.




If History repeats itself, I can see Nintendo replacing the current switch models completely with this newer model in about a year. But current switch handheld mode will continue to be supported for a few years (and all 1st party games), while current docked switch will be the new handheld mode (at least in GPU) for this upcoming switch model. I think this next switch handheld mode is basically going to be handheld 720p xbone if the higher CPU and higher bandwidth is taken advantage of.




It's gonna be weird man.. If it ends up being an ampere or similar (likely closer to the Orion, but take out the auto based parts) with A78 CPU cores and something like LPDDR5 128 bit (will be 4x bandwidth of current switch), its essentially going to be a generation up in performance.. But from insiders are saying, it won't be advertised that way, at least not initially.




And then 2 years later, 5nm switch pro XL and lite modes for better battery life.


1 Month ago
ShadowFox08
 

I don't think DLSS is going to happen. That requires a significant hardware change, and developers need to enable it in software. It doesn't upscale UI, you can't apply it to the final combined image, it needs to be just the game.

Implementing DLSS is practically a non-starter. But 4K support for UI menus is totally possible.

1 Month ago
mariomguy
 

^^https://www.resetera.com/threads/bloomberg-nintendo-to-use-new-nvidia-graphics-chip-in-2021-switch-upgrade-dlss-analysts-saying-399-msrp.398395/

Bloomberg is confirming DLSS now, with a brand new GPU Nvidia chip,as well as an upgraded (new)CPU CPU and more RAM from multiple sources. pricepoint of $350-400 is likely. This almost feels like a next gen device given the new GPU CPU and DlSS upgrade.

3 Weeks ago
ShadowFox08
 

Reply to: Bloomberg: Nintendo plans Switch model with 7-inch 720P OLED Display & 4K when docked

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