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Spider man Far from Home
Posted: Posted July 3rd by S.O.H.
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I caught this one today. I absolutely loved it. It is my favorite Phase 3 movie and one of my top 5 MCU movies. Spoilers below:



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Just got back from seeing it. I usually need some time (and a second viewing) to fully process my thoughts on a film, but my initial impression is that I loved it. I'd be a little surprised if it wound up in my own personal top 5 MCU films, but there was a lot to like here.



Posted July 3rd by white lancer
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Edited July 3rd by S.O.H.
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S.O.H.
 



Edited July 4th by white lancer
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I was just thinking to my self what the next mcu movie would be and honestly didn't know loo

Posted July 4th by S.o.h.
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S.o.h.
 

I just can’t wait to see endgame on DVD

Posted July 4th by Brandy
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Based off of the filming/casting information we have, it sounds like we can be pretty confident that Black Widow is next, early in 2020. The second 2020 film is a little unclear, but we know it's not going to be Black Panther 2 or Guardians 3 since production/writing on those isn't far enough along yet. Most of the speculation I've seen has pointed to The Eternals being the likely culprit, but it could be Doctor Strange 2 or even Shang-Chi, both of which I'd much prefer.

We're actually entering a strangely empty season as far as overall MCU stuff goes. Now that Far From Home has dropped, there's six episodes of Agents of SHIELD left and that's probably it for the rest of 2019. Compare that to the end of last year, which saw Marvel drop new seasons of Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Daredevil, and Runaways, while the first half of this year had three movies along with new seasons of Punisher, Jessica Jones, Cloak and Dagger, and the beginning of SHIELD. Kinda strange the way they spaced that all out, since they had plenty of material they could have reserved for fall and winter. Makes me wonder if they planned to "go dark" for a while after Endgame and before Disney+ drops, or if they had planned for more Netflix seasons and were just caught off-guard by the cancellations. They're certainly not pulling back on the TV side of things, since they have all of these Disney+ shows coming and just announced Ghost Rider and Helstrom. Just kinda weird that unless one of those Disney+ shows is farther along than we thought or we get a new season of Runaways that they're leaving this void.

Posted July 4th by white lancer
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are any of those shows actually good? Luke cage has been a pretty cringey mess. Agents of shield got really weird with the season where they went into the future. Iron fist was shit. Punisher season 2 was bad. The only good show was daredevil and its 3rd season made up for how awful season 2 was.

Posted July 4th by s.o.h.
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s.o.h.
 

They're certainly inconsistent. Most of the Netflix shows suffer from being a few episodes too long, which means they need to pad them out a bit. I'd qualify most of them as being good, but not great, with a few seasons (Daredevil S1 and 3, Jessica Jones S1, Punisher S1) as being actually great, and a few being pretty bad (Iron Fist S1, Defenders, Punisher S2). Iron Fist's second season was a big improvement on the first, which admittedly is a low bar, but still. Both of Luke's Cage's seasons land pretty solidly in the "fine" camp for me, as do the second and third seasons of Jessica Jones and the second season of Daredevil (that one struck me as much better on a rewatch--I think it stood out as bad at the time because it was a letdown from the previous Netflix stuff, but the Punisher stuff at least is truly excellent). I'm gonna have to disagree with you on SHIELD's season involving the future, as I thought that one was excellent (and only surpassed by its fourth season involving Ghost Rider and LMDs). I think Cloak and Dagger's first season was pretty good, with the second season being a little more inconsistent, and Runaways is fine but a bit too teen-soap opera for my tastes.

Posted July 4th by white lancer
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Ya know, I was pretty "meh" about Homecoming, but I actually really had a great time with Far From Home! There are still things about this version of Spider-Man I'm not super into, and they're very present in the film, but it's pretty clear to me that Tom Holland really carries the role well. I really do think that each actor in the mask did really well for the films they were in and what they were going for, but Holland just seems so earnest and happy to be there that it really just comes off.

I loved the Mysterio stuff. I'm not entirely sure why people are acting like the "reveal" was a big twist, or why we are expected to not talk about it because it's a spoiler. I mean, I know they *sometimes* deviate from the source material, but I can't really think of any character that they literally changed from long-time villain in the comics (and literally every piece of media) to sudden hero in the films. (Not counting characters whose source material arc involves going from villain to hero or anti-hero, a la Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch or the Punisher.) So it's been kinda silly to me the way everyone is acting like this was a big twist or the "reveal" was actually a "reveal" and not literally the plot that was reliably predictable from the moment they announced Mysterio was going to be in it. (Sometimes this "spoiler" hype machine drives me bonkers. I *really* don't think it's a spoiler to say that the long-time Spidey villain is a villain in the new Spider-Man movie, and I think we've all lost our minds if we think that is.)

But yeah, Jake Gyllenhaal was great. Loved him, and the way he played off of Holland. I loved the costume! I loved the visuals! It pretty much surpassed my expectations of what they would do with the character. And it was great.

I'm pretty down on Spider-Man love interests. (MJ isn't really much of a character in most Spider-Man stories, and Gwen was really never anything but a plot device to motivate Peter, though I did enjoy Emma Stone's take on her in the Amazing series.) Zendaya as a sort of dark, awkward teenage MJ is kinda great, though. (It's funny that I've never found MJ interesting in anything ever until last year's Spider-Man PS4 and then this year's Far From Home.) I thought she was funny, and had a kind of awkwardness that I think matched up well with Peter's. I thought Zendaya and Holland actually did well together, given that this romantic plot thread kinda just comes out of nowhere specifically for this film. Like I don't really think they planted those seeds very well in Homecoming. So it's kinda sudden and it just starts with him being like, "I really like her, man!" to Ned. I guess they had to outright say that because we had no reason going into the film to think that was the case. But I enjoyed them!

Really, I just thought it was a lot of fun. Not all the humor landed for me, but I do recognize that these Spider-Man movies tend to aim a little bit younger in terms of their target demographic. Thought it was visually cool. The action was good. To me, the character relationships felt a lot more organic, generally, than its predecessor. And, ya know, I was worried about it all taking place outside New York, but it worked out pretty well. Kinda enjoyed the road trip aspect of it in the end.

But...I kinda just can't get around the Tony Stark stuff. And so I guess I need to get into spoilers a bit. But it highlights some stuff about MCU Peter Parker that I don't tooootally love. Not necessarily saying it's bad, just that I'm not into it myself.



But yeah, all that said, I really did just have a lot of fun with it. Didn't love everything. But it's gotta be up there in the live action Spider-Man movies. I generally don't enjoy the stories that they appear to be building towards with the post-credits scene, but I think I'll see anything with Tom Holland at this point.

Posted July 19th by Jet Presto
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I'm pretty down on Spider-Man love interests. (MJ isn't really much of a character in most Spider-Man stories, and Gwen was really never anything but a plot device to motivate Peter, though I did enjoy Emma Stone's take on her in the Amazing series.) Zendaya as a sort of dark, awkward teenage MJ is kinda great, though. (It's funny that I've never found MJ interesting in anything ever until last year's Spider-Man PS4 and then this year's Far From Home.) I thought she was funny, and had a kind of awkwardness that I think matched up well with Peter's. I thought Zendaya and Holland actually did well together, given that this romantic plot thread kinda just comes out of nowhere specifically for this film. Like I don't really think they planted those seeds very well in Homecoming. So it's kinda sudden and it just starts with him being like, "I really like her, man!" to Ned. I guess they had to outright say that because we had no reason going into the film to think that was the case. But I enjoyed them!


Yeah, Zendaya really got short shrift in Homecoming. I remember seeing her all over the advertising for that film, so I was surprised at how little she was used in the actual film (whereas the actual love interest of that one was a lot less prominent in ads). There were hints that she had a thing for Peter in Homecoming, but nothing close to explicit, and there wasn't really any indication that Peter had anything for her at all. They couldn't really lay much groundwork for Peter/Michelle in that film because they had committed to Liz (and there was definitely no room to explore Pete's love life in the Avengers films), so there wasn't much they could do to get us to the starting point of this movie unless they wanted to push the teen romance off until the next one. Given that, they were great together, and really believable. My pipe dream was that MCU Peter would somehow come in contact with Shuri (Holland and Wright seem like they would play off each other fantastically), but Zendaya's MJ is awesome enough in her own right and obviously far more realistic.

Re: Tony:



But yeah, I think the whole EDITH thing was the one big concern I had about the film. Everything else was pretty solid.

Posted July 26th by white lancer
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Given that, they were great together, and really believable. My pipe dream was that MCU Peter would somehow come in contact with Shuri (Holland and Wright seem like they would play off each other fantastically), but Zendaya's MJ is awesome enough in her own right and obviously far more realistic.

Spider Man: HoMe WrEcKeR



Posted July 26th by S.O.H.
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S.O.H.
 

Wait. Zendaya isn't Mary Jane?

Posted July 26th by Jet Presto
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I mean...kinda? They called her Michelle throughout Homecoming, which I guess was probably just their way of hiding that she was going to be the MCU's version of MJ (and to avoid distracting the audience from the Peter-Liz relationship, I suppose). She seems like basically a different character, with the name being merely an homage to the classic comic character, which I'm cool with. As you said, I didn't care at all about the Mary Jane character until I played through the Spider-Man PS4 game, as she was a pretty awful character in the Raimi films.

Posted July 30th by white lancer
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As you said, I didn't care at all about the Mary Jane character until I played through the Spider-Man PS4 game, as she was a pretty awful character in the Raimi films.

I rewatched the first 2 movies this weekend. She is not that terrible. A little bit derpy sure but not that bad.

I found it interesting that in a span of 2 and a half years she bounced around 3 different relationships before settling for Peter. She almost married a guy too. I personally cant imagine getting married in less than a 2 year time frame of courtship. but this is neither here or there.

Posted July 30th by S.O.H.
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S.O.H.
 

I think everyone was the right amount of camp for the Raimi films.

The thing I find really annoying about Zendaya as not "MJ" but as a new "MJ-equivalent" is I think that's a really shitty message to send. I'm a little sick of how frequently they just make up a new character when adapting or relaunching and they maybe want to change something like race, gender, or sexuality. I know, I know: annoying SJW alert: but I think it's annoying that they can't just cast a mixed-race actor in the classic character of Mary Jane Watson because - as the idiot gatekeeping nerds will rage - SHE'S ALWAYS BEEN WHITE IN THE COMICS! But so many of these characters, especially the white, secondary characters, race is literally irrelevant. Mary Jane doesn't *need* to be white. So I kinda just find it irritating that they can't just cast anyone in the role of Mary Jane Watson, a long-time, important character in Spider-Man lore. Instead, if they want to cast Zendaya, they have to make something up.

And yeah, Michelle is different in characterization than past versions of Mary Jane, but so what? They made her different in personality in the Ultimate Universe, but didn't feel the need to come up with a brand new character that is "MJ-adjacent" for that. She's different in the Raimi universe than in most of the comics. They literally changed her career and personality for the PS4 game.

It's kinda like, I don't really get why they have to keep creating new characters if they want to relaunch a series but change some aspect. They can't relaunch Spider-Man to have an mixed race Peter Parker; they have to create Miles Morales. And yeah, that worked, but I'm a little annoyed with the gatekeeping. I think it sucks essentially sending the message that only white people can be Peter Parker or Mary Jane.

Posted July 31st by Jet Presto
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Kinda think you're putting too much emphasis on the specific name here, tbh. As I said, it's more than likely they named her "Michelle Jones" in the MCU to a) preserve the surprise of her being MJ and b) not distract audiences from the Peter-Liz plot. I imagine a lot of people would have seen MJ in the film and figured that the Liz romance was doomed from the start, and thus not invested in it. But she is the MCU's version of MJ--I mean, I don't think they call her anything else throughout Far From Home. The representation factor of it--the fact that Peter Parker's girlfriend is African-American--matters way more than whether she's "Mary Jane" or "Michelle Jones" IMO. I also, like, don't see anything wrong with changing the name of a character when you change literally everything else about her--you effectively have created an entirely new character at that point and slapping an old name on her simply makes her that character in name only. It also comes with something of an unfortunate implication if you do that with a female character, because then you're sorta implying that she's entirely defined by the man she's dating and that all of her other characteristics are extraneous and interchangeable.

Posted August 2nd by white lancer
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I don't understand this obsession with making traditionally white characters black/ insert race here. I rather have a new character with said background.

But hey that's just me.

Posted August 3rd by S.o.h.
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S.o.h.
 

They should of made peter Parker African American.

Posted August 3rd by Brandy
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Looks like we may not get a payoff to that huge post-credit scene after all, unless things change between Sony and Marvel. I'll be super bummed if Spidey (and Holland) really is done with the MCU for good. Was really looking forward to seeing him as a pillar of the MCU moving forward, which seemed like Marvel's intent based off of the football game at the end of Endgame and the post-credits scenes here, but...

I'm hesitant to lay all the blame on Sony for this one, though, like most Marvel fans seem to be doing. Sounds like Marvel was asking for an enormous increase in their payday with the Spider-Man films, and I don't know that Sony's completely crazy business-wise to turn them down. I mean, Venom was a big success despite missing the Spider-Man character and pretty bad reviews, and Into the Spider-Verse was obviously an enormous critical success, so I get why they would think they'd do alright without the MCU. I wouldn't bet on them getting more billion-dollar box office turnouts without the MCU connection, but maybe sacrificing that is worth it if they don't have to give up half their profits to Marvel. If anything, I'm inclined to lay plenty of blame on Marvel getting greedy, mostly because they a) can afford it and b) could expect the public's support in the whole thing. Makes me a little uncomfortable that the fans are helping Marvel in what could easily be an attempt to use their insane popularity and success to strong-arm Sony. Either way, though, the fans themselves (read: us) are the ones that are going to lose in this whole endeavor.

Posted Thursday by white lancer
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I'm hesitant to lay all the blame on Sony for this one

there should be 0 blame on sony period. Marvel tried to strong arm them and Sony turned around and said fuck off. (Rightly so)

Sounds like Marvel was asking for an enormous increase in their payday with the Spider-Man films, and I don't know that Sony's completely crazy business-wise to turn them down. I mean, Venom was a big success despite missing the Spider-Man character and pretty bad reviews, and Into the Spider-Verse was obviously an enormous critical success, so I get why they would think they'd do alright without the MCU.

What disney is doing is completely Ludicrous they are already getting 100% of the merchandising profit. And as we all know Merchandise sales is where they get the bulk of their profits. (or so I am lead to believe)

Posted Thursday by S.O.H.
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S.O.H.
 

Any who I am looking forward to Spiderman 3: without a home. And or Spider man 3: Homeless.

If we continue down this path I hope they bring in the sinister 6 for Spider man 3: Without a Home. Picture this. Spiderman enemy number one. No one trusts him not even the Avengers as every one believes he murdered mysterio. The 6 are brought in to bring spiderman down. He loses.

This will eventually lead to a live action version of the spiderverse. Where our parker seeks out the two other versions of himself for help. This will be Spiderman 4: Welcome Home

Sony I'm waiting for my check.

Edited Thursday by S.o.h.
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S.o.h.
 

Yea this situation, from what I have read, seems to be entirely of Marvel's making. They wanted more money from the films, Sony didn't like their demand of a 50% split (do they even have enough input for it to be worth that, I was under the impression Sony foots the bill for the movies and Marvel just helps them "get it right" for the MCU).

Marvel is absolutely trying to use the MCU as leverage and they want fans to get upset that Spiderman might not appear on the MCU. They're trying to paint the picture as Sony's fault so that people blame them. Reality is Marvel are the ones who pulled out of the current agreement, not Sony.



Posted Thursday by Moonray
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It really irks me that the rabid fan base can't see that and is backing marvel. I'm ready to leave the mouse behind.*

* with the exception of doctor strange and the falcon and Bucky happy hour.

Posted Thursday by S.o.h.
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S.o.h.
 

I mostly just feel sorry for Tom Holland. He seems like he genuinely loves playing this character (and he's by far my favourite to have played the character). Would be such a shame if he losses out on being in the MCU just because Sony and Marvel couldn't come to an agreement over this.

Posted Thursday by Moonray
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Yea this situation, from what I have read, seems to be entirely of Marvel's making. They wanted more money from the films, Sony didn't like their demand of a 50% split (do they even have enough input for it to be worth that, I was under the impression Sony foots the bill for the movies and Marvel just helps them "get it right" for the MCU).


I think the 50% number might also include Disney taking on half the financial responsibility as well? Don't quote me on that, but it might not be *quite* as egregious as it seems.

Still, it does seem to be more Disney's greed that caused this than Sony's, at least from what I've seen. But of course the MCU is untouchable and fans are calling for a boycott of Sony instead. I've read a journalist's report that stated that there was some discussion about potentially allowing Spidey to show up in MCU films but not headline them anymore (similar to the Hulk's arrangement), but chances of that seem slim. And of course, there's still a chance that they come to a new arrangement, or one side backs down...probably Sony, since Disney has most of the leverage. Which would be a shame--I really, really want Spider-Man in the MCU moving forward, but having it happen off of Disney bullying smaller companies is...not great.

And yeah, pretty unfortunate for Holland. He's fantastic in the role and seems to love being in the MCU. Of course he's under contract to play Spider-Man in a couple more films, and he'll probably get the offer to keep playing the character beyond that if he wants (though how that will work is...murky--I'm assuming Sony wouldn't be allowed to mention any of the MCU stuff like Thanos and the Snap and Iron Man, so I guess all that character development will be retconned?). But he's sort of in the middle of a tug-of-war between these two large companies right now and he has no say whatsoever in what happens.

Posted Thursday by white lancer
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Disney is the one that will be forced to back down. They need spidey in the mcu. After all they passed on the torch to him to be the new face of the MCU. Sony better stick to their guns amd fight the good fight.

Posted Thursday by S.o.h.
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S.o.h.
 

They really don't "need" Spiderman at all. They have so many characters and they've just reclaimed X-Men and Fantastic Four adding even more. At this point I think they've proven they can make a watchable superhero movie out of anything they own.

People will be disappointed if Spiderman exits the MCU, but it won't any any effect on Disney's success.

Posted Thursday by Moonray
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While true it is going to change up whatever plans they had for the character and the mcu. Like I said they wanted him to be the new face of the mcu moving forward. There is a probability that won't happen.

Posted Thursday by S.o.h.
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S.o.h.
 

Yeah, I tend to agree that the MCU should be fine, even without Spider-Man. That's probably why they seem to feel confident enough to stand their ground in this showdown, and why they're more likely to come out of this fine than Sony is. That said, I do think this next segment of the MCU, particularly this next year, is probably their riskiest. Black Widow and The Eternals don't have the same inherent marketing power as their past few films have (Widow might have pre-Endgame, but...), so the quality of the films are going to matter more. They should be fine as long as the reviews are solid, but there has to be some chance that people are less invested in the MCU moving forward. I definitely wouldn't bet on the MCU's success stopping anytime soon, but if it's going to slow down, this next year's a good bet...and losing one of their most popular heroes won't help. Hell, I'm feeling less excited about the MCU's future without Spider-Man, and I've become a pretty committed fan.

I read an article today that detailed that apparently, the Spider-Man rights will automatically revert to Marvel if Sony is bought out by another company, and there's a pretty decent chance of that happening at some point in the near future. So it's possible that even if the negotiations continue to stall, Spider-Man's MCU departure will be temporary. Plus, Marvel has the rights to Spider-Man animated TV shows and video games, which they may be able to use as leverage since Sony's interested in producing both.

Edited Very Early Yesterday by white lancer
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is bought out by another company, and there's a pretty decent chance of that happening at some point in the near future.

Sony Studios maybe.

the entirety of Sony fat chance

Posted Very Early Yesterday by S.o.h.
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S.o.h.
 

If Marvel's next slate of films doesn't do as well as they hope, they only have themselves to blame. Disney is easily the biggest culprit for serializing cinema, and if people won't go see the next movie because it doesn't "build to something" (like the Black Widow film), that is both really sad about the state of cinema, and tough shit for Disney. But also, let's be real: they're not going to bomb. The brand is too strong for them to not make billions of dollars for quite some time.

Which is also why I am actually kind of glad that Sony played hardball with them. I get it: it's sort of a bummer that Spider-Man won't appear with Nick Fury again any time soon. But Disney sucks and they shouldn't get creative control of everything. On top of that, Disney has been hard at work killing the middle tier films, and it calls into question how many movies we get each year. Disney is afraid of risks. Even when they take them, they are often by all other measures pretty safe bets. We're going to get fewer films every year because Disney is killing the middle tier or "big indie" scene, and they're basically releasing stuff from the same mold.

I get that everyone is excited for all these characters to appear on a big screen together, but it's also like: Disney would *never* have made Deadpool, for example. Fox barely did themselves, but they eventually did agree to take a real risk (in the R-rated superhero film that has historically not been successful). Also highly doubt we'd get something like Into the Spider-Verse under Disney's current model. Those are things that exist *because* there are studios who are looking to compete, and aren't beholden to the Disney model or have to fit the Disney tone.

Yeah, the Spider-Man movies have been wildly inconsistent in quality, but for my money, we've gotten more good ones than bad. And I'd much rather see different movies, and stop giving Disney all the control over pop culture. It's the death of culture.

Posted Yesterday Evening by Jet Presto
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