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Marriage as Alliance Between Patriclans or Btwn Matriclans
Posted: Posted November 28th, 2018 by chiarizio

According to classical cultural anthropology, when a culture’s kinship system is predominately patrilateral — that is, the named multi-generation kingroups are all patriclans consisting of father-to-son patrilines — marriage is frequently seen as an alliance between the groom’s patriline and the bride’s patriline.
And this alliance is perceived as valuable.
Sometimes, therefore, grooms are expected to, if possible, marry “a girl just like the girl that married dear old dad”; or, at least, to marry a bride from the groom’s mother’s patriclan.
There might be several suitable female relatives from his mother’s patriline.
For instance, his MBD (Mother’s Brother’s Daughter), who is a first-cousin, is of his own generation and likelyish to be closeish to his age.
Or, his MBSD (MB Son’s D), his first-cousin-once-removed descending, who will be a generation younger than him, but possibly not too much younger in years, if his MB is older than his M, and his MBS is not too much younger than his M, or at least is enough older than the groom himself.
Or, his MBSSD, his first-cousin-twice-removed descending; quite likely to be much younger than the groom. But since there are RL societies where a man’s average age at first marriage is 42, but a woman’s average age at marriage is 14, this could actually happen, I think. (OTOH if it does actually happen IRL, I don’t know it!)

Possibly, the groom’s patriline may maintain alliances with two other patrilines. Maybe men from the groom’s patriline take turns marrying brides from those other two patrilines.
So grooms may be expected to marry women from the patriline of their FFW (Father’s Father’s Wife = Father’s M), rather than their FW=M.
Again there could be several categories of female relatives who might be satisfactory.
The first might be his FMBD; a first-cousin-once-removed ascending. She’s much likelier to be older than him, than younger. This might go along with systems such as some in Tibet and Nepal and the Himalayas, where brides who have attained puberty may have pre-pubescent husbands.
A second possibility is his FMBSD, a second-cousin. She’d stand a good chance of being close to his age.
A third possibility might be his FMBSSD, a 2nd-cousin-once-removed descending; likely to be younger than the groom, although it’s at least even money that she’s not so young she could be his daughter.
And then there’s his FMBSSSD, a 3rd-coz-twice-removed descending.

Or maybe the groom’s patriline rotate every generation among three other patrilines.
Then the groom would be encouraged/expected to marry a woman from his FFM’s patriline.
Such as his FFMBD, a 1st-coz-twice-removed ascending. She’d probably be significantly older than him.
Or his FFMBSD, a 2nd-coz-once-removed ascending, still likely to be older, but not as likely, and not as many years older.
Or his FFMBSSD, a 3rd-cousin.
Or his FFMBSSSD, a 3rd-coz-once-removed descending, likelyish to be youngerish.
Or his FFMBSSSSD, a 3rd-coz-twice-removed descending, quite likely to be considerably younger.

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If the society’s kinship system is predominantly matrilateral —— that is, the named multi-generation kingroups are matriclans consisting mainly of mother-to-daughter matrilines —— marriages may be seen as alliances between matrilines.
If brides are encouraged and/or expected to marry a groom from their father’s matriline, they may choose their FZS (Father’s Sister’s Son). If that happens, the groom is marrying his MBD.
Or they could choose their FZDS, a 1st-coz-once-removed descending, who might well be noticeably younger. (He’d be marrying his MMBD).
Or she could choose her FZDDS, a 1st-coz-twice-removed descending; almost guaranteed to be significantly younger. (He’d be marrying his MMMBD.)

If brides marry grooms from their MF’s matriline, they might marry their:
MFZS, a 1st-coz-once-removed ascending, probably at least a little older than the bride. (The groom would be marrying his MBDD.)
Or her MFZDS, a 2nd-cousin. (He’d be marrying his MMBDD.)
Or her MFZDDS, a 2nd-coz-once-removed descending, probably somewhat younger than the bride on average. (He’d be marrying his MMMBDD.)
Or her MFZDDDS, a 2nd-coz-twice-removed descending, almost surely quite a bit younger than the bride.

If brides marry grooms from their MMF’s matriline, they could marry;
Her MMFZS, a 1st-coz-twice-removed ascending, likely to be several years older than the bride. (The groom would be marrying his MBDDD.)
Or her MMFZDS, a 2nd-coz-once-removed ascending. Still likelyish to be olderish than the bride, but perhaps not as severe an age difference. (The groom would be marrying his MMBDDD.)
Or her MMFZDDS, a 3rd-cousin. A good chance they’re closeish to the same age, depending on what other tendencies are in their culture. He’d be marrying his MMMBDDD.
Or her MMFZDDDS, a 3rd-coz-once-removed descending, probablyish a bit youngerish than the bride.
Or her MMFZDDDDS, a 3rd-coz-twice-removed descending.

Posted November 28th, 2018 by chiarizio

I can’t see how, in a patrilateral society, a habit of men marrying a woman from their MM’s patriline, could be considered maintaining an alliance between patrilines.
Nor can I see how, in a matrilateral society, a habit for women to marry a man from her FF’s matriline, could be seen as keeping up aliances between matrilines.

This is interesting. In societies whose marriage rules are proscriptive — “you can’t marry them, you’re related too closely” — rather than prescriptive — “you must marry a spouse classified as having one of a certain number of specified blood-relationships to you” —— ; there might be a rule that, for example, none of the groom’s grandparents can come from any of the same patriclans as any of the bride’s grandparents. That would make the groom’s MM’s patriline much more important than his FFM’s patriline.
But in at least one of these alliance-maintaining prescriptive-marriage systems, the groom’s FFM’s patriline is important, but his MM’s patriline is not.
In the matrilateral case, in a proscriptive marriage system, it might be the rule that none of the bride’s grandparents can come from any of the same matrilines any of the groom’s grandparents come from. That makes the bride’s FF’s matriline important, but not her MMF’s matriline.
But in at least one of these alliance-maintaining prescriptive marriage systems, the bride’s MMF’s matriline is crucial. But in none if them is her FF’s matriline important.

—————

I was not able to come up with a prescriptive marriage system in which a groom could maintain the alliance with his father’s rope, nor his mother’s mother’s rope, nor his MFF’s rope.
Nor could I come up with a system for brides to maintain their rope’s alliance with their mother’s rope, nor their FF’s rope, nor their FMM’s rope.

Edit 12/16/18:
W=FMBD or W=FMBDSD ?
H=MFZS or H=MFZSDS ?

W=MMFZSD or W=MMFZSDSD ?
H=FFMBDS or H=FFMBDSDS ?

W=MFFMBDSD or W=MFFMBDSDSD ?
H=FMMFZSDS or H=FMMFZSDSDS ?

Posted November 28th, 2018 by chiarizio

Consider a society (my Adpihi and Reptigan are fictional examples) in which everyone, regardless of sex, is expected to marry twice; the first time to an older spouse who is already married, and the second time to a younger, maiden-or-bachelor-if-not-virgin who has never before been married.

It might make sense for one’s first marriage to be to a first-cousin-once-removed ascending (that is, a first-cousin of one of one’s parents), and for one’s second marriage to be to a first-cousin-once-removed descending (that is, to a child of one of one’s first cousins).

For instance, in a patrilateral alliance-maintaining prescription, we might have, for grooms,
W1 = FMBD and W2 = MBSD
(I think that means that, for brides, H1 = FFZS and H2 = FZSS. )

Or, in a matrilateral alliance prescription for brides, we might have
H1 = MFZS and H2 = FZDS
(I think that makes the prescription for grooms be,
W1 = MMBD and W2 = MBDD. )


Or, maybe, the first spouse should be a 2nd-coz-once-removed ascending, and the second spouse should be a 2nd-coz-once-removed descending.
Patrilateral, for grooms:
W1 = FFMBSD and W2 = FMBSSD
(For brides that means H1 = FFFZSS and H2 = FFZSSS. )

Matrilateral, for brides:
H1 = MMFZDS and H2 = MFZDDS
(For grooms, this means W1 = MMMBDD and W2 = MMBDDD. )


—————

I don’t (yet?) intend anything like this to occur in any of my existing concultures.
Perhaps I will make up other concultures for them to run into, that have systems like these.

If there are any sex-specific mortality that’s sensitive to birth-order or age, that might change the plausibility of some of these systems. For instance, if male generations (average age difference between father and son) is about a third of a century, while female generations ( average age difference between mother and daughter) is around half that (around a sixth of a century), that makes a difference in how plausible a big generation-gap between husband and wife is.

Also, if patriline A always takes their brides from patriline B, two questions come up;
Where do the B men get their brides from?
and
Who do the daughters and sisters of the A men marry?

I think the patrilines would have to be arranged in a circle, with the brides going clockwise, or something.

If patriline A men marry patriline B women in odd generations, but marry patriline C women in even generations, similar questions come up. I think the patrilines could still be arranged in a circle, with brides going clockwise in odd generations but counterclockwise in even generations. But I’m not sure that’s the only solution. What if there are five patrilines, and brides move clockwise in a circle in odd generations, but counterclockwise in a pentagram in even generations? Is that sensible at all?

And if the men of any patriline rotate their bride-choices through three different patrilines, I’m not sure I can currently even visualize what such a network might be like.

The same problems remain unsolved — by and for me, at least — if we’re talking about circulating grooms through matrilines.

Posted November 28th, 2018 by chiarizio

The late Reptigan rule would prohibit marrying direct or collateral ancestors or descendants, or first-cousins no matter how many generations removed. It would also prohibit marrying full-second-cousins or double-half-second-cousins, but not half-second-cousins nor second-cousins-once-removed.

So later Reptigan would allow a groom to choose marrying these combinations:
W=FFMBSD (ascending, so probably older)
or
W=FMBSSD (descending, so probably younger)
(among 32 kinds of female 2nd-coz-once-removed),

and would allow a bride to choose
H=MMFZDS (ascending, so probably older)
or
H=MFZDDS (descending, so probably younger)
(among 32 kinds of male 2nd-coz-once-removed).

—————

It’s just occurred to me that it’s pretty easy after all to renew alliances between ropes.

If a man marries his MBD, he’s marrying a girl from the same rope as his MF’s wife. Because his MFW is his MM, who is in the same rope as her son (the groom’s MMS, who is the groom’s Mother’s Brother or MB), who is in the same rope as his daughter, the groom’s MBD.

If a man marries his MFZSD, his MFM great-grandmother was in the same rope as the groom, and the bride’s FMF great-grandfather was the groom’s MFM’s husband, so the bride’s FMF was in the bride’s rope, and married the groom’s MFM.

If a man marries his MFMBDSD 3rd-coz, they are renewing the alliance between ropes previously enacted by the groom’s MFMF marrying the bride’s FMFM. if i recall correctly that’s what I said happened ideally in early Adpihi.

Posted November 30th, 2018 by chiarizio

Is this thread either too hard to understand, or too hard to get interested in?

Posted December 4th, 2018 by chiarizio

bump, maybe?

Posted December 16th, 2018 by chiarizio

What if everyone married their FFZDD’s child and also married their MMMBS’s child?

Every bride would be marrying a groom from her FF’s matriline, and every groom would be marrying a bride from his MMM’s patriline.
(And every groom would marry a bride from his FF’s matriline and every bride would marry a groom from her MMM’s patriline.)

When a groom marries his FFZDDD, she is marrying her MMMBSS; she’s his 2nd-coz-1-removed descending, he’s her 2nd-coz-1-removed ascending. He’s probably older than her. She’s probably his second wife, and he’s probably her first husband.

When a groom marries his MMMBSD, she is marrying her FFZDDS; she’s his 2nd-coz-1-removed ascending, he’s her 2nd-coz-1-removed descending. He’s probably younger than her. She’s probably his first wife, and he’s probably her second husband.

Everyone would have two spouses.

But I think these marriages might be seen as restoring an alliance between a patriline and a matriline, rather than between two patrilines or two matrilines.

Each patriline’s generations of men would take turns alternating between a set of two matrilines from whom to choose their (second) wives.
Likewise each matriline’s generations of women would take turns rotating between a set of three patrilines from whom to choose their (first) husbands.

I have no idea how realistic that is. It might happen in real life, or might not, for all I know.

Second-cousin prescriptive marriage systems, and first-cousin-once-removed presc.marr.syst, and prescriptive secondary-marriage systems, all exist. So do marriages that are alliances between lineages. The chance that they all occur in the same culture seems small but non-zero. The chance that these exact details all occur together in real life seems smaller yet. It would take a bilineal, polygynandrous culture, with both patrilines and matrilines, and prescriptive marriage, including prescriptive secondary marriage, to second-cousins-once-removed. And alliances would have to be between a patriline and a matriline.

I wish Cerne could comment on this.

—————

More likely to happen in real-life might be marriages to first-cousins-once-removed.
Maybe everyone marries an FZD’s child and an MMB’s child.
Man marries his FZDD, she’s marrying her MMBS, he’s one generation “older” than her, she’s his second wife, he’s her first husband.
Man marries his MMBD, she’s marrying her FZDS, he’s one generation “younger” than her, she’s his first wife, he’s her second husband.
The man’s second marriage is to a woman from his father’s matriline (FZDD); prolonging that alliance one more generation. (Likewise the woman’s second marriage is to a man (FZDS) in her father’s matriline.)
The woman’s first marriage is to a man (MMBS) from her MM’s patriline; renewing that alliance after a one-generation hiatus. (Likewise the man’s first marriage is to a woman (MMBD) in his MM’s patriline.)

====/////:::::;;;;;+++++——-%%%%%%%%%%
EDIT
Probably (maybe?) less likely in real life, but more compatible with my concultures, would be prescribed first- and second- marriages to third-cousins-once-removed.
A person’s first marriage could be to a child of their MMMMBSS.
W1 = MMMMBSSD and H1 = MMMMBSSS.
A person’s second marriage could be to a child of their FFFZDDD.
W2 = FFFZDDDD and H2 = FFFZDDDS.
Each patriline of men would rotate between a cycle of three matrilines from among whom to take their (2nd) wives; each matriline of women would rotate between a cycle of four patrilines from among whom to take their (1st) husbands.
No-one would be required (or permitted!) to marry anyone from the same patriline nor the same matriline as any of their grandparents.

Unless I’ve had another brainfart. But even then, something like this is probably possible.
/EDIT

Edited Monday by chiarizio

Suppose a society is divided into matriclans. Everyone is born into the same clan their mother belongs to.
Suppose also that every marriage is seen as establishing or strengthening an alliance between the bride’s matriclan and her groom’s matriclan.
Then a marriageable young woman might very well be encouraged to choose a husband from the same matriclan that one of her matrilineal ancestresses chose her husband from. So she wants to choose her husband from the matriclan of her (M+)H, where (M+) means a string of one to five Ms. And M stands for “mother” or “mother’s”, and H stands for “husband” or “husband’s”.
Now presumably someone’s mother’s husband is their father, and/or vice-versa. So she’s looking for the matriclan of her (M*)F, where (M*) means a string of zero to four Ms, and F stands for “father” or “father’s”.
A man and his sister have the same matriclan, or, at least, they do if they have the same mother.
So she’s looking for a man from the matriclan of her (M*)FZ, where Z stands for “sister” or “sister’s”.
She wants to marry her (M*)FZ(D*)S, where (D*) stands for a string of zero or more Ds, D stands for “daughter” or “daughter’s”, and S stands for “son” or “son’s”.

If she marries her FZS, or FZDS, or FZDDS, or FZDDDS, she’s perpetuating, for one more generation, the alliance between her matriclan and her father’s matriclans, that her mother and her father formed when they married.
Her FZS is her first (cross-)cousin; her FZDS is her first cousin’s son; her FZDDS is her first-cousin’s grandson; and her FZDDDS is her first-cousin’s great-grandson.

If she marries her MFZS, or MFZDS, or MFZDDS, or MFZDDDS, or MFZDDDDS, she’s restoring an alliance, (which has been in hiatus for one generation), that was made when her MM married her MF. Her MFZS is her mother’s first cousin. Her MFZDS is her second-cousin. Her MFZDDS, MFZDDDS, and MFZDDDDS, are respectively her second-cousin’s son, grandson, and great-grandson. It might be the usual thing for her to marry a man a generation “older” than she is, such as her MFZS. Or, it might be the usual thing for her to marry a man a generation “younger” than she is, such as her MFZDDS. Whatever is usual, marriage to a man one generation “older” or “younger” than the usual, might not be all that rare.

If she marries her MMFZS, MMFZDS, MMFZDDS, MMFZDDDS, MMFZDDDDS, or MMFZ(D^5)S, she’s restoring an alliance after a two-generation hiatus, made when her MMM married her MMF. Her MMFZS is her grandmother’s first cousin, her MMFZDS is her mother’s second cousin, and her MMFZDDS is her third cousin. Her MMFZDDDS, MMFZDDDDS, and MMFZ(D^5)S, are respectively the son, grandson, and great-grandson, of her third cousin.
Her MMFZS is two generations “older” than she is. If grooms are usually or on average three times as old as brides, it might be the most common thing for a bride to be two generations “younger” than her groom.

If she marries her MMMFZS, MMMFZDS, MMMFZDDS, MMFZDDDS, MMMFZDDDDS, MMMFZ(D^5)S, or MMMFZ(D^6)S, she’s restoring an alliance (in hiatus for three generations) made when her MMMM married her MMMF. Her MMMFZS is her great-grandmother’s first cousin, her MMMFZDS, is her grandmother’s second cousin, her MMMFZDDS is her mother’s third cousin, and her MMMFZDDDS is her fourth cousin. Her MMMFZDDDDS, MMMFZ(D^5)S, and MMMFZ(D^6)S, are respectively the son, grandson, and great-grandson, of her fourth cousin.

If she marries her MMMMFZDS, MMMMFZDDS, MMMMFZDDDS, MMMMFZDDDDS, MMMMFZ(D^5)S, MMMMFZ(D^6)S, or MMMMFZ(D^7)S, she’s renewing an alliance made four generations ago, when her M^5 married her MMMMF. Her MMMMFZDS, MMMMFZDDS, and MMMMFZDDDS, are respectively her great-grandmother’s second cousin, her grandmother’s third cousin, and her mother’s fourth cousin. Her MMMMFZDDDDS is her fifth cousin. Her MMMMFZ(D^5)S, MMMMFZ(D^6)S, and MMMMFZ(D^7)S, are the son, grandson, and great-grandson, respectively, of her fifth cousin.

Edited Monday by chiarizio

We can say something, ceteris parabus and mutatis mutandis, for alliances between patriclans.

If the men in a certain patrilineage always take wives from the same patriclan, then a young man might be encouraged to choose his MBD or MBSD or MBSSD or MBSSSD, from his mother’s patriclan. These are, respectively, his own first cross cousin, his first cousins daughter, his first cousin’s granddaughter, and his first cousin’s great-granddaughter.
In a society where the average bridegroom’s age is 42 and the average bride’s age is 14, marriage to the MBSSD (first cousin twice removed descending, i.e. first cousin’s granddaughter) might be typical. Marriage to the MBSD or MBSSSD might not be anything like unknown. It might be that a man’s MBD is usually thought to be too old for him to marry; or, already married to someone else.

If OTOH the men in a certain patrilineage alternate every generation, taking their brides from one of two patriclans, a bridegroom might be expected or encouraged to choose his FMBD or FMBSD or FMBSSD or FMBSSSD or FMBSSSSD. His FMBD, his father’s cross-cousin, would be a generation “older” than him. His FMBSD would be his own second cousin, in his own generation. His FMBSSD, FMBSSSD, and FMBSSSSD, would be respectively the daughter, granddaughter, or great-granddaughter, of his second cousin. Again, if bridegrooms average three times as old as brides, then probably most brides are two generations “younger” than their husbands. Brides one generation younger, or three generations younger, might not be all that exceptional. Brides the same generation, or a generation “older” than their husbands, might be rare or even unheard-of.

But now suppose the habit of a certain patrilineage’s men is to rotate, by generation, through a cycle of three patriclans, as sources for brides. Each bridegroom from that patrilineage might be encouraged/expected to choose his FFMBD, FFMBSD, FFMBSSD, FFMBSSSD, FFMBSSSSD, or FFMB(S^5)D. His FFMBD would be his grandfather’s first cousin; probably not the usual or average age difference, but maybe not too uncommon. His FFMBSD would be his father’s second cousin. That might be the usual or average thing, if brides were usually older than grooms. His FFMBSSD would be his own third cousin. His FFMBSSSD would be his third cousin’s daughter, which might be the usual thing if brides were usually about a generation younger than grooms, on average. His FFMBSSSSD, his second cousin’s granddaughter, might be the usual or average choice, if grooms were usually or on average closer to three times their brides’ ages, than two times. If that were true, marriage to a second cousin’s great-granddaughter, such as FFMB(S^5)D, might not be unheard-of.

Almost done! Suppose a given patrilineage’s men had the habit of rotating through a cycle of four other patriclans from whom to choose their brides. They might usually choose their FFFMBD (three generations older - great-grandfather’s first cousin) or their FFFMBSD (two generations older - grandfsther’s second cousin), or FFFMBSSD (one generation older — father’s third cousin. Or they might choose their fourth cousin, FFFMBSSSD, from their own generation. Or they might choose a daughter or granddaughter or great-granddaughter of a fourth cousin; respectively, maybe, FFFMBSSSSD, or FFFMB(S^5)D, or FFFMB(S^6)D.

Finally, maybe they rotate between a cycle of five other patriclans from among whom to choose their brides. Each man wants his bride to come from the same patriclan his (F^5)’s i.e. his FFFFM — came from. Now, his FFFFMBD would be four generations older than him, and I’m discounting that possibility. So I’m admitting, as possible preferred brides, his FFFFMBSD, his FFFFMBSSD, and his FFFFMBSSSD, who are respectively three, and two, and one, generations “older” than he is. And of course I’m also admitting his same-generation fifth cousin, his FFFFMBSSSSD. And I’m allowing or considering possible his fifth-cousins once or twice or thrice removed descending; the daughter or granddaughter or great-granddaughter of his fifth cousins; his FFFFMB(S^5)D, FFFFMB(S^6)D, and FFFFMB(S^7)D.

Posted January 24th by chiarizio

For my concultures Adpihi and Reptigan, I’d prefer spouses’ ages to be about half-a-generation apart.
So among the patterns considered in the previous two posts, I think I’d want a person’s first marriage, to an already-married older spouse, to be about equally likely split between a parent’s nth cousin and the new first-time bride’s or groom’s same-generation (n+1)st cousin. (For some appropriate n.)
Then for an already married person’s second marriage, to a virgin, or at least maiden or bachelor, younger than themselves, I think I’d want the likeliest, and probably equally likely, two possibilities, to be to their nth cousin, or to the child of their nth cousin, for whatever n is appropriate.

Adpihi would prohibit marrying someone from one’s parent’s clan; and Reptigan would go further and prohibit marrying someone from one’s grandparent’s clan.

So an Adpihi first-time bride’s preferred grooms might split between her MFZS and her MFZDS; or between her MMFZDS and her MMFZDDS; or her MMMFZDDS and her MMMFZDDDS.
A Reptigan first-time bride might prefer her MMFZDS or her MMFZDDS; or her MMMFZDDS or her MMMFZDDDS; or even her MMMMFZDDDS and her MMMMFZDDDDS.
An Adpihi first-time groom could prefer his FMBD or FMBSD, or FFMBSD or FFMBSSD, or FFFMBSSD or FFFMBSSSD, etc.
A Reptigan first-time groom couldn’t marry his FMBD or FMBSD, but he might prefer his FFMBSD or FFMBSSD, or FFFMBSSD or FFFMBSSSD, etc.

But an Adpihi second-time bride might prefer her MFZDS or MFZDDS, or MMFZDDS or MMFZDDDS, or MMMFZDDDS or MMMFZDDDDS.
A Reptigan second-time bride might prefer her MMFZDDS or MMFZDDDS, or MMMFZDDDS or MMMFZDDDDS, or MMMMFZDDDDS or MMMMFZ(D^5)S, etc.
An Adpihi second-time groom might prefer his FMBSD or FMBSSD, or FFMBSSD or FFMBSSSD, or FFFMBSSSD or FFFMBSSSSD.
A Reptigan second-time groom might prefer his FFMBSSD or FFMBSSSD, or FFFMBSSSD or FFFMBSSSSD, or ... etc.

Anyway, people would prefer first spouses about halfway between their own ages and the age of one of their parents; and prefer second spouses about halfway in age between their own age and the age of one of their children.

We might want at least half the marriages to be between people one generation apart.

Posted January 24th by chiarizio

When we try to extend the ideas in the two posts just before that last one, to renewing alliances between ropes, there are complications induced by the alternating sexes of the lineages’ members as the generations ascend or descend.

Let EGO be male. He inherits his “rope” from his mother, M. If he wants to perpetuate the alliance (just swapping the sexes) between his rope and his father’s (F’s) rope, that his parents made when they married each other, he needs to marry a bride from his father’s rope. Women in his father’s rope include his father’s daughter (EGO’s sister Z) and his father’s mother FM. He can’t marry either of them; but maybe he could marry Z’s son’s daughter, ZSD. ZSD is two generations younger than Ego. Her granddaughter ZSDSD is also in F’s rope, but being four generations younger, I won’t consider her.

Suppose instead he wants to renew the alliance made two generations earlier when his mother’s father MF, who is in his rope, married his MM. So he wants a woman from MM’s rope. Women in MM’s rope include MMFM, MMFMSD = MMFBD, MMFD = MMZ, MMZSD, MMFBDSD, MMZSDSD, MMSD=MBD, MBDSD, and so on. MBD is his own generation; MBDSD is two generations younger.

Suppose he wanted to restore an alliance after a two-generation hiatus. (But with the sexes swapped.) In other words he wants to marry someone from his MFF’s rope, the way his MFM (his great-grandmother whose rope he has inherited) did.
He might look at his MFFD = MFZ , a grandaunt who is two generations older. Or he might look at his MFZSD, a second cousin. Or he might look at his MFZSDSD, two generations younger.
His MFFMSD = MFFBD is not classificatorily different from his MFFD = MFZ.
And his MFFMFD = MFFMZ isn’t handled any different from his MFFM.

Maybe he wants to renew an alliance after three generations. He wants a woman from his MFMM’s rope. (His same-rope great great grandfather MFMF married such a woman.). He might consider his MFMMSD = MFMBD , his MF maternal grandfather’s cross-cousin, who is two generations older. Or he might consider his third cousin MFMBDSD, his own generation. Or he might consider his MFMDSDSD, two generations younger.

What if he wanted to marry a woman from his MFMFF’s rope, duplicating (with the sexes swapped!) the alliance made by his MFMFM’s marriage? That’s five generations earlier; the alliance has been in hiatus for four generations.
Some women in the appropriate rope include his MFMFFD = MFMFZ, four generations older, so not to be considered; her granddaughter his MFMFZSD, his maternal grandfather MF’s second cousin, two generations older; his MFMFZSDSD, a fourth cousin; or her granddaughter, his MFMFZSDSDSD, two generations younger than him.

Stretching as far as I care to stretch, he might want to marry a woman from his MFMFMM’s rope. Six generations previously his MFMFMF made a similar alliance, and it has been in hiatus for five generations. He wants to marry descendants of his MFMFMMSD = MFMFMBD, such as his MFMFMBDSD, his maternal grandfather’s third cousin (two generations older) or his MFMFMBDSDSD fifth cousin (same generation), or his fifth cousin’s granddaughter MFMFMBDSDSDSD (two generations younger).

———

It’s not hard to work out what if EGO were female.

Posted January 24th by chiarizio

BTW in earliest Adpihi, with only three “milk-houses” (matriclans), only three “blood-paths” (patriclans), and only three “robes” (the UDGs formerly known as ropes), men must marry a woman classified as their MFMBDSD and women must marry a man classified as her FMFZSDS. These are third-cousins.

At the same time, the man is marrying a woman classified as his (F^5)Z(D^5) and she is marrying a man classified as her (M^5)B(S^5), fifth cousins.

That’s the joy of classificatory kinship systems!

Furthermore, she’ll be classified as his (M^6)BWB(S^5)D, and he’ll be classified as her (F^6)ZHZ(D^5)S. They’ll be something like sixth cousins-in-law.

And she’s classified as his FFFFZSD, and he’s classified as her MMMMBDS.
And she’s his MFZDDDD, and he’s her FMBSSSS.
Second cousins twice removed, both ascending and descending.

Unless I’ve screwed something up.

Posted January 24th by chiarizio
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