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1. Weapons control? 2. Police? - Gtx0 ?>


1. Weapons control? 2. Police?
Posted: Posted June 8th, 2010 by chiarizio
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1. What sort of alternate history would Earth's be like if some kind of magic spell or something had fixed it so that every crew-served weapon had to be operated by two women, one of whom had to be pregnant, and one of whom had to be the mother of the other?
(E.g. tanks, heavy artillery, missile silos, etc., would all be operated by two-woman crews; there couldn't be any such heavy weapons operated by men.)
1a. Would it have made different differences, depending on when and where it happened? For instance, just as WWII broke out vs. just as the mujihadin began to resist the Soviets in Afghanistan?

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2. If one of your conworlds or concultures has a star-system-wide government (such as one for the whole Solar System), do you have distinct:
  • System Police Force
  • Planetary Police Forces
  • Continental Police Forces
    ?

    2a. If your conculture is interstellar, perhaps each inhabited star-system has its own System Police. If that's so what's their relationship to the interstellar government?

    2b. If a star system has only one inhabited planet, would you actually need a difference between the System Police and the Planetary Police? Maybe the System Police could be like park-rangers (for marginally-inhabitable but uninhabited bodies, e.g.) and space-traffic-controllers, and the Planetary Police could handle crimes and other problems of public order taking place inside the atmosphere?

    2c. If one of a planet's continents has a very large inhabited area, then it might make sense to divide it into parts which have their own police forces. Do you like that idea or not? (Maybe it's just too complicated to have more than three levels of police.)

    2d. What if a planet's habitable land is entirely close to its ocean(s)? Would Oceanic Police make better sense than Continental Police in such a case? They could be organized more like an earthly RL Coast Guard than like an earthly RL police force.

  • There are 6 Replies

    @1 & 1a:

    ...it would increase the number of unwanted children, orphans, abortions, teen pregnancies and dead mothers.
    Society would end up forcing women to get pregnant as young and frequently as possible so that the mother of the pregnant daughter would still be young enough to actually work the weapon efficiently, and not get arthritis or a broken hip etc.
    And what with the hormones and difficulties of being pregnant, combined with fighting for her country and the life of herself, her unborn child and her mother, a number of the pregnant daughters probably wouldn't be able to handle it, and have a nervous breakdown in the middle of a battle. Sorry if that sounds sexist, but its just more likely.

    Idk about the effects on our history, except that gender equality either would have come about a lot sooner, or never.

    Basically, things would get fucked up. Why did you even come up with this?


    @2: Currently I don't have any interstellar conworlds, but I'd imagine that when I do get round to making one, it'll be complete anarchy. No governing body or law enforcement of any kind.

    @2b: Your own suggestion seems best.

    @2c: It'd be necessary. Even once our civilisation spans across hundreds of planets and star systems, a continent is not gonna be any smaller, and our major cities aren't gonna be any less densely populated.

    @2d: Oceanic Police, Continental Police, they're just names. With the kind of technology presumably available, its not to imagine they'd have amphibious/flying vehicles that could patrol the coasts and oceans just as easily as the cities. They'd be a sort of hybrid of coast guard and police force.

    Posted June 9th, 2010 by Avjunza
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    Avjunza
     

    @1 & 1a:

    ...it would increase the number of unwanted children, orphans, abortions, teen pregnancies and dead mothers.
    Society would end up forcing women to get pregnant as young and frequently as possible so that the mother of the pregnant daughter would still be young enough to actually work the weapon efficiently, and not get arthritis or a broken hip etc.
    And what with the hormones and difficulties of being pregnant, combined with fighting for her country and the life of herself, her unborn child and her mother, a number of the pregnant daughters probably wouldn't be able to handle it, and have a nervous breakdown in the middle of a battle. Sorry if that sounds sexist, but its just more likely.

    Idk about the effects on our history, except that gender equality either would have come about a lot sooner, or never.

    Basically, things would get fucked up. Why did you even come up with this?

    When the Taliban first started making the news it was reported that they wouldn't feed female children until all the males had been fed (etc.) because the boys could grow up to be fighters but the girls wouldn't.
    That was the impetus for coming up with the idea; but there were other things I thought of.
    First, in testing how effective the Grameen Banks had been in helping the poor of India, sociologists found the most effective measurement was the increase in upper-arm circumference of female children. Mothers didn't get to feed their daughters enough for their daughters to grow unless they already had enough to feed their husbands and sons.
    Second, in David Brin's "Sundiver", the way the Earth/Solar/Human government guarantees that none of its starships will start any fights, is to crew them with all-female crews and make sure every officer and crewperson is pregnant at the beginning of each voyage.
    I thought that requiring mother-daughter crews would mean that women would get treated better, since men could only use individual weapons; bazookas, and sniper rifles that need a spotter with a scope to partner with the sniper, and various other two-or-more-person-team weapons-systems, would need women to use them.
    I thought (and after your response I think I may have been mistaken, but I'm not sure) that requiring one of the women to be pregnant, might mean that "big" battles -- those in which crew-served weapons would be used -- wouldn't be fought unless there were no other recourse.

    Thanks for your response.

    @2: Currently I don't have any interstellar conworlds, but I'd imagine that when I do get round to making one, it'll be complete anarchy. No governing body or law enforcement of any kind.

    @2b: Your own suggestion seems best.

    @2c: It'd be necessary. Even once our civilisation spans across hundreds of planets and star systems, a continent is not gonna be any smaller, and our major cities aren't gonna be any less densely populated.

    @2d: Oceanic Police, Continental Police, they're just names. With the kind of technology presumably available, its not to imagine they'd have amphibious/flying vehicles that could patrol the coasts and oceans just as easily as the cities. They'd be a sort of hybrid of coast guard and police force.


    I think you're right.

    2. If one of your conworlds or concultures has a star-system-wide government (such as one for the whole Solar System), do you have distinct:
  • System Police Force
  • Planetary Police Forces
  • Continental Police Forces
    ?

  • I guess those concultures should be filthy rich to support such an organization or else they'd never create any stellar police force at all. If they manage to finance it, then they should think about pensions for the widows due to the fact that any destroyed police starship would leave behind several police officers's bodies floating in space indefinitely. They'd need to be supported by Firefighter and Emergency Forces, too, or else they'd say goodbye to their relatives every single time they get a new mission.


    Well, of course, any planet-spanning conculture would be richer than any RL natculture on Earth has ever been; especially if it were part of some interplanetary system-wide conculture.

    Please note that I did not propose any interstellar police. The biggest jurisdiction I mentioned was System Police; interplanetary, but not interstellar. I would assume that the various Systems' Police Forces would co-operate the way Interpol and other international police-co-operation groups co-operate in real life here and now.

    Realistic physics and celestial mechanics and so on might mean that even System-wide Interplanetary Police Forces would be unrealistic. But I don't think there should be any barrier to the creation of Planetary Police forces except politics. If a planet had several habitable satellites, perhaps the entire system of satellites (and the planet too, if it were habitable) would have an over-all Police Force.

    The idea of having a System Police, a Planetary Police, and a Continental (or Regional?) Police, on a planet in a system that was part of an interstellar conculture, is not original with me; I read a novel in which that was the case.

    I'm not sure there would be a need, however, for a System Police Force; although maybe there would. But whatever argues against needing or affording a System Police Force, which is only interplanetary, would argue even more against any interstellar police force. I'm not sure there could ever be an interstellar government.

    Right now, there's really no such thing as international law here and now on Earth; every nation is sovereignly irresponsible. Furthermore, even international opinion is unimportant to any practical politician who has any chance of keeping his/her office; the opinion of their own constituents is paramount, and they needn't pay any attention to the opinions of foreigners until they've gotten the opinions of their own countryman sewn up.

    I don't think that has to last, and I don't think it should last.

    But perhaps there won't ever be any interplanetary government or interplanetary law.

    Or perhaps there will.

    Posted June 16th, 2010 by chiarizio
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    Bump
    Because it seems to fit in with what elemtilas and I are talking about, regarding the “rich folks’ duties to poor folks” thread etc.

    Posted September 12th, 2018 by chiarizio
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    Bump
    Because it seems to fit in with what elemtilas and I are talking about, regarding the “rich folks’ duties to poor folks” thread etc.


    In The World, there are no planet / system -spanning governments in Gea's star system, so I can't really answer to those questions.

    As for question 1, although I doubt Avjunza is here to reply, I'd respectfully disagree. I think women, in general, are too smart by half to get involved in tank warfare (or bombers or missile commands or anything of the sort) especially while pregnant. I know it's not safe to point out in our modern, politically correct environment, but there are actual differences between boys and girls. Hormones and ancient instincts come into play very strongly, I believe.

    Chances are good the answer to your question would be: "Well, boys, rifles and bayonets were good enough for Gettysburg, they'll be good enough for you! Now, what colour scheme do you think would be best for the nursery, hon? I'm thinking a cool, woodsy theme with greens and watery blues!"

    Posted September 12th, 2018 by elemtilas
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    Prolly rite.

    Posted September 14th, 2018 by chiarizio
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    Bump

    Posted March 23rd by chiarizio
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