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09/11/2001 WE REMEMBER

With Javier Bardem and Jennifer Lawrence? If not, you have to see this movie. It got terrible reception from all the artless ducks out there who don't understand nuance. This was a movie that left me thinking long after I left the theater, and that is rare these days. Highly recommend this psychological thriller.

Not going to spoil it but


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3VhpO0l7qw

This thread needs to be on the TV forum(if there is one). Not here. — GC/MS
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There are 17 Replies

you have to see this movie


I saw the RLM review of it and it doesn't look that interesting.

Posted December 3rd, 2017 by nullfather

Your loss.

Posted December 3rd, 2017 by Kaot0

Thought for a moment this would be about the Bong Joon-ho film, which I have seen and veeeery much love. But then I remembered.

I'm pretty ehhh when it comes to Darren Arronofsky. I've heard good things about it, but they're also things that - for me personally - don't sound appealing.

Posted December 3rd, 2017 by Jet Presto

it looks boring

Edited December 6th, 2017 by Brandy

I would watch it, but I haven't even able to go to see Thor or Justice League (although the latter I can totally go without).

Posted December 14th, 2017 by Recalescent Ghost

Saw it Friday night, came away very disappointed. I'm going to disagree with most of your post.

It got terrible reception from all the artless ducks out there who don't understand nuance.

Problem with this movie is that it tried TOO hard to be an allegorical film. Most good films or novels with allegory are able to stand on it's own when you look past the nuance and allegory. You can't do this with mother. Once you get past the first 10 minutes or so the film turns into a very obvious re-telling of the Bible. It's so fast and heavy handed that there really isn't a scene that isn't part of the grand scheme. You go from enjoying the film to "oh, it's the Bible, okay". It becomes pretty boring.

Then you have the problem with the overall message Arronofsky is trying to get across. He has publicly stated that the film is meant to address human inflicted climate change, but the viewer doesn't come away from the film thinking that. Probably not the only one since most early reviews had no idea what was going on with the film and the fact that Arronofsky had to publicly state this before anyone started talking about it.

I felt more like Arronofsky was trying to muddle the intentions of God, almost an anti Christianity film. The viewer is meant to view the film through the eyes of Jennifer Lawrence, who is in a constant state of bewilderness and anger about what the heck is going on. The Adam and Eve characters went against the trust of God and broke the crystal (aka, apple), thus starting the downfall of the human race (or house, I guess?). At the end of the film we see what I'm guessing is suppose to be the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, but once that happens there isn't any redemption for any of the characters. Jennifer Lawrence dies thinking her husband (God) was a complete monster who murdered her son (Jesus) and she never really grasps any of the events that occurred.

Yeah, the more I think on it, it is definitely an anti Christian message.

Posted December 17th, 2017 by Bubba
Bubba
 

Scrolling through the forum just now I see that you're a Christian. Curious to see if you picked up anti christian message like I did.

Posted December 17th, 2017 by Bubba
Bubba
 

Oh! Someone actually watched it.

Problem with this movie is that it tried TOO hard to be an allegorical film. Most good films or novels with allegory are able to stand on it's own when you look past the nuance and allegory.


Fair enough. I'm wondering which allegorical films you'd compare to 'Mother' and what makes them stand out as better? Just to get an idea of your style.

Once you get past the first 10 minutes or so the film turns into a very obvious re-telling of the Bible.


I would say the first 30 minutes (Ed Harris isn't even introduced within the first 10 minutes, after all) and I think catching the allegory early on would depend on the viewer themselves. The trailer is what primes everyone to not expect the allegory, especially if they're not well versed in Christianity. Obviously the movie wasn't a 1:1 allegory, since encapsulating ALL of Christianity within a 2-hour span wouldn't be possible, but I found there was enough subtlety to chew on after leaving the theaters. I'm not a movie buff, but it's been a looong time since a movie made me think about it like that.

He has publicly stated that the film is meant to address human inflicted climate change


That doesn't make any sense... Unless "climate change" is a byword for "humans destroying the planet 'cos humans" then yeah, makes sense.

The Adam and Eve characters went against the trust of God and broke the crystal (aka, apple), thus starting the downfall of the human race (or house, I guess?).


Yes, that's definitely what I liked about "Mother's" allegorical style. The house represents the World. Where the "apple" is stored, represents the "highest heaven" which Bardem locks up after Adam and Eve's intrusion, representing being kicked out (locked out) of Eden. Bardem squeezes the shattered pieces of the crystal so hard that he —sheds his own blood... (foreshadowing Christ's sacrifice)

[Hebrews 9:22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.]

[Hebrews 10:10-12...And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when [Jesus Christ] had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God...]


Yeah, the more I think on it, it is definitely an anti Christian message.


Yes, there was a co-mingling of Christianity with Gnosticism/Pagan elements. I did catch that. However, nobody is going to this movie for correct religious guidance. It's a form of entertainment, after all. My hope is that the overall coherence of the films conclusion would alleviate preconceived notions that Christianity is incoherent or unintelligible and perhaps spark people's interest into researching Christianity further, if only for the sake of learning something new.


Eve, (this clicked in my mind afterward), represents "Mother Nature." BUT when I was watching, I assumed she represents the Devil. She wanted Ed Harris out of the "Garden" as soon as his character got there... So yes I agree, there is a highly anti-christian subtext underlying this movie, in that it promotes duality and does so subtlety and in such a way as to appeal to the rationality of the agnostic/atheistic viewer... Half-truth is patently dangerous to any ideology.




[Hebrews 13:3...Remember those in prison as if you were bound with them, and those who are mistreated as if you were suffering with them...]

Edited January 2nd by Kaot0

Finally I found this thread. I looked all over the entertainment section to talk about this movie (thought the thread was there) but it was hiding here.

I honestly didn't notice it was an allegory to Christianity at first. I thought it was man corrupting mother earth instead and eventually killing her (her spilling the oil and burning the house, etc). There were some things I was just kind of confused about. Then when I saw Christianity come up it clicked pretty quick. The man and woman being Adam and Eve, the sons being Cain and Abel, the crystal being the forbidden fruit, the room being the garden of Eden, the sink breaking as the great flood, the baby being Jesus, etc. I thought it was interesting. I didn't hate it but I don't think it deserves as much hate as it got by general audiences.

This film did make me really mad though. Whenever I see movies where some people are just purely inconsiderate assholes (in a non-comedic role) I just want to scream. As soon as like near 10,000 people showed up coming to the house I knew it was something out of the realm of reality. The large family showing up was something I could see as actually happening but the huge crowd just seemed unbelievable. The last 1/3rd just seemed like pure chaos. Like nothing I've ever seen before. Interesting, but seriously strange. I kinda liked how nuts it all got.

Posted January 2nd by Fox Forever

It got terrible reception from all the artless ducks out there who don't understand nuance.

I've felt like this recently so I don't really take the opinions of a lot of people as gospel. There are lots of movies critics like for nuanced reasons and then there are people who come out and are just like "that movie was dumb" etc. I saw both The Witch and It Comes At Night in theaters and both ended with people audibly saying in the theater that the movies were "stupid" and that "nothing happened".

Alternatively I feel like critics can also get it "wrong" by not understanding source material. I felt like that when I watched Speed Racer (also in theaters) and found out that critics didn't like it so much. Now it's somewhat culty.

Posted January 2nd by Fox Forever

Jennifer Lawrence dies thinking her husband (God) was a complete monster who murdered her son (Jesus) and she never really grasps any of the events that occurred.


Right, that's how those who despise God view Him; a monster. I find this in line with Christianity if we accept that Arronofsky's intention for the audience is to view Lawrence as also representing of the Devil. She wanted Adam and Eve out just as soon as they arrived!

Her character also represents Mother nature, (clearly) and all the carnality present in the lives of those dedicated to the sensual enrapturement of their fleshly bodies... which is contrary to Christian asceticism.

As Christians we are called to put to death our fleshly desires so that we may live by the Spirit, for the Spirit, in honorance of the one who sacrificed His life to absolve us of our sinful nature, Jesus.



[Romans 8:7-8...because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s Law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God...]

[Galatians 5:19-21...The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God...]

[Romans 8:13...For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live...]

[Romans 6:5-6...or if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be raised to life as He was. We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin...]

[Colossians 3:5...Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry...]

Edited January 2nd by Kaot0

I didn't hate it but I don't think it deserves as much hate as it got by general audiences.


This is my position also.

Whenever I see movies where some people are just purely inconsiderate assholes (in a non-comedic role) I just want to scream.


I was on the edge of my seat... waiting for Bardem's character to realize how attractive Jennifer is... yeah it was painful to watch but it also really engaged me 'cos I had no idea what was going to break the tension. I knew something was going to do it, but which direction it would go after that I didn't know.


As soon as like near 10,000 people showed up coming to the house I knew it was something out of the realm of reality.


Yet another thing I loved about it! Sort of a genre-shift mid-film twist. The trailer looks supernatural, the first 1-hour or so it's grounded in reality, then it switches back to being supernatural... what am i watching?!

The last 1/3rd just seemed like pure chaos. Like nothing I've ever seen before. Interesting, but seriously strange. I kinda liked how nuts it all got.




There are lots of movies critics like for nuanced reasons and then there are people who come out and are just like "that movie was dumb" etc


There are too many movie critics these days...

The VVitch wasn't bad, but I'm still not going to be watching such genre's in the future.


Posted January 2nd by Kaot0

@Fox Forever
@Bubba
@Recalescent Ghost

Didja watch it yet?!! Didja watch it yet?!! Didja watch it yet?!!
Didja watch it yet?!!
Didja watch it yet?!!
Didja watch it yet?!!
Didja watch it yet?!!
Didja watch it yet?!!

Posted January 2nd by Kaot0

Didja watch it yet?!!

Yeah, I did. (dunno if that was a joke or not). Saw it like 6 days ago.

Also I think that movie critics can give good insights but not all critics are the same. I personally am impressed by things like camera shots/camerawork, long takes, unique story, and cliché avoidances (if a movie doesn't have these things it doesn't mean that I don't like it, though.) Other people I know are only impressed by the big action or if a movie was funny.

Posted January 2nd by Fox Forever

Yeah, I did. (dunno if that was a joke or not)


That was for Recalz XD

we all have to force him to watch it!

cliché avoidances


Like the plague. Cliche ruins all.

Posted January 2nd by Kaot0

I admit your analysis makes me want to, Kaotic.

Maybe if I high pass this semester (so basically, no).

Posted January 3rd by Recalescent Ghost

Good pick up on the shedding of the blood in the upper room. Definitely didn't notice that on the first watch. Almost want to re-watch it to try and find more biblical references.

Posted January 12th by Bubba
Bubba
 
Reply to: has anyone seen the movie Mother?
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