Night 1 - Townies please check threads for a surprise... ends in 48 hours.


Spirituality, Religion, Theology and Philosophy


All faiths & lack of faiths welcome.
All debate styles welcome.
WARNING: Posts may contain sensitive and controversial material.

Hello,

My name is Kaot0 and I identify as Christian

If you have any burning questions on your mind that you would like to discuss pertaining to Christianity, please let me know and I will be happy to answer them for you. If you feel that Christianity is rife with contradiction or is no different than any other major religion, then this is the thread for you to ask questions. I am open and willing to yield.

James 3:17

But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.


May YAHWEH bless you and reveal Himself to you,

No, seriously
settingsOptions
There are 77 Replies

How long have you been Christian?

Posted November 11th, 2017 by nullfather
nullfather

11 months

Posted November 11th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

How do you feel about the jews

Posted November 11th, 2017 by A.o.h.
A.o.h.
 

...I think they need to realize that Jesus is their long awaited Messiah and they need to stop denying it.

The problem is that they feel their national identity is threatened if they were to embrace Christianity. But more are embracing Christianity as time goes on. They can be stiff-necked sometimes.

Posted November 12th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

My name is Kaot0

I have a hard time believing that's really your name.

Oh yea can you really survive snakebites? Mark 16 17-18

FYI I sent a long box to you in the mail be sure to shake it up and open it right away! <_< >_>

Edited November 12th, 2017 by Louis De Pointe du Lac
Louis De Pointe du Lac
No love = No future

How does one become a Christian?

Why would someone want to?

Posted November 12th, 2017 by Xhin
Xhin
 

Oh yea can you really survive snakebites?


Probably.


How does one become a Christian?


There is quite an ongoing debate between Calvinism vs. Arminianism views of soteriology, [aka] election/predestination vs. partial depravity/saving self. The former [John 6:37] states that salvation is solely the will of God and if followed along its coldest rationale, essentially denies free will as playing any part in the equation, which leads to predetermined fatalism [re: John 6:44]. This is a huge issue for many in their attempts to understand Christianity, and understandably so. Yet paradoxically, Christians are not supposed to place any faith in their own works saving them. So we are completely dependent on Jesus regardless...

However, in the latter (in both instances actually) within Protestantism, the Christian is saved solely by grace through faith—Justification—in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, [Romans 4:1-8] as propitiation and remission for all sins, once for all time. Hebrews 10:10 [Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7]

If the faith is genuine, the old nature is circumcised and the new nature defaults back to obedience to God's laws [Romans 2:15], as written in the Bible, regardless of initial backsliding. I personally had a struggle with older sins of the flesh for quite a while but I have experienced much more self-control as time went on, a process known in Protestantism as —Sanctification.

[1 John 2:3-6]
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.
4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.
5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:
6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.


Arminianism, however, places the onus on our own free will to come to God, and if we do not, then it is our own fault. If we decide to give in to the enticements of this fallen world and indulge in sensuality and love this world more than our spiritual lives, then we are ultimately responsible for our choice to splinter away from God's will.

The flesh wars against the Spirit and the Spirit wars against the flesh. [Galatians 5:17]
https://www.gotquestions.org/Calvinism-vs-Arminianism.html
It's really confusing, at the start anyway, but lately I've been starting to see the whole Revelation itself as panopticonic... if that makes sense...

Why would someone want to?


Freedom.

Edited November 12th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

No how do you feel about the anti-Semitism expressed I'm the good book

Posted November 12th, 2017 by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Where speficially?

Posted November 12th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

Ill see if I can find some examples tomorrow.

Posted November 12th, 2017 by s.o.h.
s.o.h.
 

11 months


What was the inciting event or circumstances behind becoming Christian?

Posted November 12th, 2017 by nullfather
nullfather

What was the inciting event or circumstances behind becoming Christian?


By the grace of God, I was allowed to witness the true state of my heart; which was depraved, prideful and abominable in the sight of God.

It was then that I prayed fervently in the name of Jesus for salvation. After that, my life began to change. I maintain that this phenomenon was and is still not of my own doing.

I thought I was a Christian before but I was deceiving myself. Now I am confident and I manage to read the bible every day. Jesus says to take His yoke upon me.

Matthew 11:28-30
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

Luke 9:23
Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

John 3:30
He must become greater; I must become less."


Life is progressively getting better and I would encourage anyone who has never really attempted to experience Christianity the way Jesus intended to give it a serious go. I'd love to assist in any way I can. The funny thing about faith is that you kinda haveta have it in the first place in order to get more. However, like the parable of the mustard seed, a little faith is all that is needed and God will work through you to move mountains.

Posted November 12th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

What was depraved and abominable about your heart?

Posted November 12th, 2017 by nullfather
nullfather

Well, I was very self-centered. I did not acknowledge the truth of God's will and commands as outlined in the bible. I wanted to forge my own virtue so to speak. I wanted to impose my own views of moral subjectivity and contend them against God's standards, which are holy and perfect. This audacity, if left unchecked for long enough, pisses God off. Especially once you get older and God no longer views you as a child, but expects you to either acknowledge Him or continue drifting further from Him, who is the source of all life and good in the universe.

This is sinful pride that many succumb to in this life, unfortunately. Ultimately, God allowed me to realize that I cannot save myself. I cannot supersede the authority of God. Life is about more than being a "good" person and doing "good" things. It's about preparing oneself for meeting the maker.

So that's the journey I've been on lately. I have to check out now, but if you have any other questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Posted November 12th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

Send me some money for a bible?

A good bible.

Posted November 13th, 2017 by Agis
Agis
 

Yes, how did Noah manage to get all those animals into the Ark?

Posted November 13th, 2017 by BananaBloke
BananaBloke
 

Agis

which version would you like?

I like NKJV, ESV, NASB, and I've even started warming up to NIV

Posted November 13th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

BanananaBlock

2-by-2

Posted November 13th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

For the record, the Noah story isn’t crazy cause God couldn’t do it. It’s crazy cause God chose THAT way to do it. To turn a wooden boat into a TARDIS then speed over 2 or more of millions of different species from all across the globe and then control their minds so they play nice with each other and making it so they either don’t have to eat or don’t have to crap just to drown most of the life on earth. All this when he could’ve just snapped his fingers and made the people he didn’t like vanish. Yea......

Posted November 13th, 2017 by Louis De Pointe du Lac
Louis De Pointe du Lac
No love = No future

Do you believe the bible in its entirety? (like, is everything it says true and did it really happen?)

Edited November 13th, 2017 by Fox Forever
Fox Forever

do you believe mohamet flew to heaven on a winged horse?

Posted November 13th, 2017 by Brandy
Brandy

How many fuck kids does a priest need to fuck if a fuck priest could fuck kids

Posted November 13th, 2017 by BananaBloke
BananaBloke
 

Do you believe the bible in its entirety? (like, is everything it says true and did it really happen?)

Short answer: Yes. Example, I literally believe Jonah was a disobedient prophet who was swallowed by a whale and left there for 3 days or so before being spit out on dry land to preach to the heathens in Ninevah. If I can believe this story then I can certainly believe whatever other fanciful stories the Bible speaks about.

Its important to understand dispensations. I ascribe to the most basic dispensations of the bible:

The first 5 books of the Bible are known as Pentateuch (aka) Torah which the modern day Jews still identify as holding sacred meaning.

Then, the Bible moves into Historical books chronicling God's chosen tribe of Judah, lead out of slavery for 400 years by Moses in Exodus, and its leadership and guidance post death of Moses.

Then, the bible moves into Prophets who were sent to deliver messages about the Messiah. Jesus Christ came and fulfilled 300+ of the prophecies written/spoken of by the prophets of old, and these prophets were separated in time by hundreds of years in some cases.

Then you have Gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke, John) which chronicle the truiphant life and ministry of Jesus.

Then you have the epistles, 2/3 of the New Testament, written by Paul, God's chosen instrument to preach the good news of salvation through faith in Christ to the gentile world.

This is the grace covenant which we are currently under. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 , Romans 10:9-13 both preach the Gospel of salvation.

I feel that this grace covenant is coming to a close soon. Matthew 24 is apocalyptic in content. Matthew 24:14 states:

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

^with the technology we currently have, the central message of the Bible has been spread throughout the world, to all nations.

Edited November 13th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

do you believe mohamet flew to heaven on a winged horse?


No. If that's their claim to Jerusalem, then they are at odds with Jewish history.

@Bananabloke

Catholicism functions much like Paganism. I wouldn't even consider it a Christian denomination at all.



Posted November 13th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

What makes you think that the bible is true?

Posted November 13th, 2017 by Fox Forever
Fox Forever

Experience.

Over this last year, whenever I consulted the Bible I was always able to find the remedy for what was ailing my conscience and persona.

Posted November 15th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

"Over this last year, whenever I consulted the Bible I was always able to find the remedy for what was ailing my conscience and persona."

horoscopes can do the same thing

Posted November 15th, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

horoscopes can do the same thing


Im a libertarian

Posted November 15th, 2017 by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

So the reason why is because it felt good to trust it?

Posted November 15th, 2017 by Fox Forever
Fox Forever

So the reason why is because it felt good to trust it?


At the start, I suppose. It's kind of a blur. I am a different person now with a different outlook on life, and trying to remember everything about my former way of thinking is difficult. As a worldly seeker of truth prior, I was broken down by the conclusion that perhaps Bible was the only thing that could help me after all.

I do recall that when I was facing certain difficulties or blockages to my understanding, many, many times the biblical answer would find its way to me and I would then read it, meditate on it, discuss it online, and it would reformat a portion of my psyche, like a doctor's suture.

Another way of visualizing my spiritual rehabilitation via Bible is to picture a glass door that was hit with a rock of pride and now has thousands of little hairline fractures. Over time, internalizing the messages found in the Bible, studying and learning from others online and in person, picture those hairline fractures receding as though time were moving in the opposite direction.

You must be open to the advice it contains, though. This is vital. If you aren't willing to be open to truly lend yourself to what it says, at least for a little while, then you're never going to see how it can and will change you. When I sought the Christian outlook to many spiritual/theological/philosophical/ontalogical questions, I was encouraged by the little successes which I found (or) which found me, which then snowballed until the biblical inconsistencies encountered did not bother me as much. Later on down the line, even those got ironed out... It was a process and it required patience because it's not exactly you doing everything, God is leading you to certain answers at certain times. It's a walking in tandem sort of thing.

The problem is, if we aren't capable of recognizing just how futile and silly we creatures truly are in contrast to an almighty God, then we will never realize our need of Him. This is why Jesus says "blessed are the poor in Spirit" and why also Jesus speaks of how difficult it is for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Most often, those that are rich here have no need nor desire to understand their moral/spiritual shortcomings. Those that are poor (monetarily, homely, sorrowful, indebted, feeble, victimized) are capable of realizing their deep need of something, someone, anyone. God is one who cares for those people more than they can imagine, because they suffer just as Jesus did. Jesus was (supremely) innocent, and yet suffered here under the laws of man.

In the Garden of Eden, the prototypical man and woman desired to take it upon themselves to define Good and Evil on their own terms. This means that they contended with God's definition of Good and Evil. The root of such transgression is PRIDE, the ultimate sin.



When I started getting into it, I was asking a whole bunch of questions seeking the Christian perspective on things. One question I had was about IDOLATRY. When I looked up the biblical answer to what this was, I found it to be very rich and deep. This is a good site btw
https://www.gotquestions.org/idolatry-modern.html



Posted November 16th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

what do you think about james 5?

as a new christian, do you have any insight into why people who convert to christianity later in life are almost always insufferable pricks? (as opposed to people who were raised as and remained christians for their entire lives and are much quieter about it)

Posted November 17th, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

as a new christian, do you have any insight into why people who convert to christianity later in life are almost always insufferable pricks? (as opposed to people who were raised as and remained christians for their entire lives and are much quieter about it)


That's pretty easy to figure out. People who were raised Christian just think of that as the way things are and it doesn't need to be spouted at every opportunity. People that convert after reaching the age of reason are generally doing it for some ideological reason.

Posted November 17th, 2017 by nullfather
nullfather

i was being snarky with that one. born-again christians have treated me worse than anyone i've ever met, and kaot0 is exuding those zealot vibes

Posted November 17th, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

It was pretty clearly a leading question. I just want to get it established that Kaot0 reeks of insecurity lately.

Even I wasn't that bad when I was a Satanist.

Posted November 17th, 2017 by nullfather
nullfather

as a new christian, do you have any insight into why people who convert to christianity later in life are almost always insufferable pricks? (as opposed to people who were raised as and remained christians for their entire lives and are much quieter about it)

As a rule converts in any belief tend to be more militant than veterans of said belief. Sort of like a kid with a new toy that wants to show it off to everyone.

Posted November 17th, 2017 by Louis De Pointe du Lac
Louis De Pointe du Lac
No love = No future

Just answering questions guys. I'm actually eager to talk about my faith and clear up misconceptions others may have.

@Poptart!

What do you think about James 5?

You can group me in with those insufferable pricks if you like, that's like, your opinion and I'm sorry for triggering you.





Posted November 17th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

no, seriously, what do you think of james 5? a lot of leftists like to mention that part of the bible since it trashes rich men. what's your take? is there any context that they're missing?

Edited November 17th, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

"You can group me in with those insufferable pricks if you like,"

ok i will then lmao

Posted November 17th, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

James 5:1-6 is talking specifically about oppressive rich people that take advantage of those employed under them, cheating the lowly out of fair wages. It mentions that God is offended by the iniquity of the rulers of this world and that His wrath is upon them, in one form or another.

Just picture a bunch of rich white men oppressing you or another marginalized/disabled group, with their wealth and influence, and then picture God being angry at said bunch. Now connect the dots here and realize how compatible you are with Christianity after all! As a minority who is obviously oppressed, God loves you!

James 5:7-12 goes on to exhort the reader unto patience and long-suffering in the face of the aforementioned tyranny. 1 Peter 1:7 speaks also of Faith being refined in the fires of trial and heartship here on earth, and that the end product of an intact Faith is far more valuable than gold and silver to God.

James 5:13-20 is meant to encourage us [Christians] to build each other up and persevere.

What is your take on James 5?







Edited November 17th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

How is the demiurge treating you?

Posted November 20th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

I don't do the Gnosticism thing, Knok

Posted November 20th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

Why not? It's great. We also have cookies.

Posted November 20th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

"What is your take on James 5?"

basically the same as yours

Posted November 20th, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

have you read paradise lost?

Posted November 20th, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

Why not? It's great. We also have cookies.


...what kind of cookies...

@Poptart!
I have not, but I need to. Actually, if you have any other suggestions for classic lit I'd appreciate it.



Posted November 20th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

...what kind of cookies...


Iced oatmeal :^)

Posted November 20th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

I do actually have a legitimate question though. It's not a question that I think I don't have the answer to though formerly being a Christian myself, but what do you think of Christians who try to impose their will onto others? I mean, there's little getting around that's what some are trying to do. For example, (and sorry for getting controversial with this but I'm not feeling very creative right now) the kinds that think gay marriage should still be illegal.

Posted November 20th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

Iced oatmeal


Hook it up.

but what do you think of Christians who try to impose their will onto others? I mean, there's little getting around that's what some are trying to do. For example, (and sorry for getting controversial with this but I'm not feeling very creative right now) the kinds that think gay marriage should still be illegal.


Right, I was waiting for someone to ask this. It's an intricate question. I don't think we (or anyone) should impose our will upon others as this violates their autonomy, which is their God-given free agency. Jesus himself never forced anyone to follow him, nor did he force anyone to do anything against their will, for that matter; his ministry was the exact opposite.

So when you see fundamentalists picketing funerals and holding up signs that are extremely offensive to the gay community (which is comprised of human beings) and contemptible and inhumane to humanity period, this is directly contrary to what Christ intended our ministries to be in the world. How on earth can these people believe they are representing Jesus?

(Matthew 7:21-23...And I will say to them, "I never knew you, depart from me you who practice lawlessness"...)

(Matthew 6:1...“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven...)

I would actually go as far as to argue that the majority of people who claim to be Christian are not, because they go ahead without Christ (i.e. without comprehensive Bible studying) leading to error, because they embellish the Word at their own capriciousness. I am now of the strong opinion that if one wants to claim the label of Christian, there must be some spark of motivation to actually read the Bible, and some actually learning to show for it.

(2 John 9...Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teachings of Christ does not have God;)

(2 Timothy 2:11-16...study to shew thyself approved, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth...)

Furthermore, it is not at all the labor of man that draws another soul to Christ, nor can we secure them; this is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit. We that are brave enough to wear our faith on our sleeve and openly speak about Jesus when the situation presents itself are deeply indebted to God that He has permitted us to play a small role in leading another to Himself. God works through servants and circumstances, through the weakest vessels and in mysterious ways.

(2 Corinthians 12:9-10...“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me...For when I am weak, then I am strong.)

In fact, it is the highest honor of the creature to be used to fulfill the will of its creator. There is no greater purpose, to my knowledge, at this time, that I can think of, than to be useful in some way to my God, Yahweh. We are not saved by good works, we are saved for them, and all the good which we do in His name will, at the time of His revealing, serve to glorify Him and His children.

(Romans 6:8...Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.)

(Romans 8:23...Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies...)

(Romans 13:14...Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.)

(2 Corinthians 5:4...For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.)

(Galatians 3:26-27...So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ...)





I would recommend all of 1 John's chapters to anyone interested in reading a bit of the Bible...

I mean... a bit more than I've tricked you into reading already >;)

Inb4cherrypickingnicersections

P.S. also Paul's epistle to the Romans following 1 John

Edited November 20th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

Catholicism functions much like Paganism. I wouldn't even consider it a Christian denomination at all.


Even though the belief of Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior and is central to their religious faith? Could you elaborate on why it functions like paganism and you wouldn't consider it a Christian denomination?

Posted November 20th, 2017 by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

born-again christians have treated me worse than anyone i've ever met,

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww



Posted November 21st, 2017 by #85
#85

"I have not, but I need to. Actually, if you have any other suggestions for classic lit I'd appreciate it."

you really should. it blew my mind as an atheist - i'm sure it would have an even greater effect on a christian.

(a lot of people think that paradise lost portrays satan sympathetically, but milton was deliberately drawig negative comparisons to cromwell)

i'll try to think of some more recommendations.

Posted November 21st, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

wrt #85:

i'm not whining, hung up on it or looking for sympathy. just pointing out that born-again christians can be some of the cruelest pieces of shit out there (aside from nazi fucks like you)

Posted November 21st, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

One of my closest friends was raised in a born again family and when I finally met her parents, they seemed very quiet and unamused by most things...but that is likely due to personality. Also, N = 1.

Posted November 21st, 2017 by Jahoy Hoy
Jahoy Hoy

Also, I like how poptart inherently triggers 85 to the point where he seems to scour threads for things that he says.

Posted November 21st, 2017 by Jahoy Hoy
Jahoy Hoy

Even though the belief of Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior and is central to their religious faith? Could you elaborate on why it functions like paganism and you wouldn't consider it a Christian denomination?


Catholics do proclaim Jesus Christ as their eminent central figure of worship as do we Protestants, but their worship is quite different in practice.

Catholicism heavily promotes saint intercession which is contrary to how the Bible instructs us to commune with our heavenly Father. Jesus is our intercessor, and so there is no need for Christians to pray to St. Francis of Assisi to pray to Jesus for us. There is no need to pray to St. Patrick to pray to the body of Christ on our behalf. Saint veneration is akin to polytheism; all who have saving faith are true saints.

(John 14:6...Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me...)

(1 Timothy 2:5...For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus...)

(1 John 2:1...My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One...)

(Hebrews 7:24-26...But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them...Such a high priest truly befits us—One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.…)

Catholicism's glorification of Mary is reminiscent of paganism's masc/fem duality. They are promoting her as "Queen of Heaven" which is a smattering of dogma with zero scriptural backing. Catholics are heavily encouraged to pray to Mary even over canonized saints exalting her further and taking away prayer that should rightly be directed to Jesus, as shown in the above verses.

The Catholic trinket, Rosary, pays far deeper homage to Mary than to Christ, and a Catholic will pray 50 Hail Mary's in one go around. This is not how we're instructed to pray.

(Matthew 6:7...And when you pray, do not babble on like pagans, for they think that by their many words they will be heard...)

There is no reason to direct prayer to any other than Jesus, as He is the perfect intercessor and in him is no sin.

(1 John 3:5...But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin...)

(1 Peter 2:22-23...He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in His mouth.” When they heaped abuse on Him, He did not retaliate; when He suffered, He made no threats, but entrusted Himself to Him who judges justly...)

Here's a short list of rituals and assorted dogma for which I have discovered zero scriptural basis. Catholicism is the inverse of Protestantism in so many ways, and I believe it has led many away from following Christ correctly; through the divinely inspired words in the Bible.

Infant baptism, purgatory, confession to human priest, saint veneration, everything in the Apocrypha, druidic worship, physical idols, calling priests "father" etc...

Catholicism has been doing things like this for hundreds of years.

Posted November 21st, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

Also I need to clear up some misconceptions about "born-again"

Anyone can say they are "born-again" without any legitimacy to the claim, just as I could say I'm a sea manatee and not actually be a sea manatee. So if poptart! has been routinely treated is such a terrible manner by those claiming to be born-again then I'd really questions the legitimacy of their claims, as acting hyper-judgmental toward others is so contrary to my own experiences, which is that I was brought so low I was crying on-and-off for days at the way I had been existing. Gospel of John 3:8 proves that we cannot be born-again on our own, we must be acted upon.

(John 3:8...The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”)

John 3:1-8

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Selah ;)

Edited November 21st, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

Also, N = 1.


Number #1?

Posted November 21st, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

i just thought of another question! how have you changed your behavior since you've converted to christianity? is there anything that you do differently (aside from quoting the bible all the time) or stopped doing?

Posted November 21st, 2017 by poptart!
poptart!
 

It's a dumb stats joke. N is typically designated as the number of people in your sample. The smaller N is, the less generalizable your findings are to an entire population. In this context, I only interacted with one family of born again Christians, and therefore it's very unlikely that they generalize to all such families.

Posted November 21st, 2017 by Jahoy Hoy
Jahoy Hoy

Why would someone want to?

Just because you don't want to be religious does not mean you get to assert that nobody wants to.

Posted November 22nd, 2017 by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

Interesting. I, obviously by virtue of having a Catholic upbringing (and also by virtue of not actually believing in any of these world religions) don't really agree that there is such a thing as a "right way" to worship, but it is interesting to hear the argument that there is too much focus on other figures in Catholicism. Does it make no difference, then, that Catholicism requires the acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior, and that the consumption of Communion is the most important sacrament? Like Catholics pray to other figures within the faith, but they aren't really viewed as equally important. You can achieve salvation only through acceptance of Jesus, prayer to Jesus, and consumption of Jesus, regardless of how many Hail Marys you say (and Lord knows, you're saying a loooot of them). Also, what about the general belief that God is in everyone and uses people to communicate with us? What is the need to pray directly to Jesus rather than Mary when Jesus is God and God was in Mary as well? Wouldn't a prayer to Mary be inherently a prayer to God (slash, Jesus)?

Randomly veering away from that line of questioning: how do you feel about things like "In God We Trust" being placed on money?

Posted November 28th, 2017 by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

It's my understanding that baptism is the most important sacrament, not Communion. When I was more atheistic I would say "I was baptised a Catholic, but I'm not religious" and would be met with the response "You are a Catholic then" as in once baptized its finalized.

Posted November 28th, 2017 by #85
#85

Just because you don't want to be religious does not mean you get to assert that nobody wants to.

Where was that assertion?

Posted November 28th, 2017 by Fox Forever
Fox Forever

i just thought of another question! how have you changed your behavior since you've converted to christianity? is there anything that you do differently (aside from quoting the bible all the time) or stopped doing?


Yes, my self-control is completely different. I actually have it now. It used to be that if I were to have a beer casually, I would then continue to drink for the duration of that day, looking forward to going home to be by myself where I could down more. Now I am capable of simply having a casual drink with a meal and that's it. No desire to get drunk. I even avoid hard alcohol and prefer beer, but even this is something I don't care for nearly as much, and in many opportunities now I even avoid the casual drink.

I attribute this fully to that of a miracle, as I had tried in my own power to quit, or at the least, reduce my alcohol and smoking consumption for years... but it was just increasing and I is powerless. It wasn't until about this time last year when I truly came to the realization that Jesus was the Son of God and the Author of Love, Righteousness and Peace that I was indwelt with the capacity to control my behaviors, which were fast spiraling out of my control.

I have also let go of a lot of anxiety about the future, and anger and irritation towards others, including myself. I'm much more patient and less irascible.

Just because you don't want to be religious does not mean you get to assert that nobody wants to.


I believe Xhin's question is valid, GC/MS. There is no reason to read ill-intention into what he asked.

@Jet Presto

don't really agree that there is such a thing as a "right way" to worship, but it is interesting to hear the argument that there is too much focus on other figures in Catholicism.


I should clarify, it is entirely possible for Catholics to be saved if they believe in the Gospel. If they profess 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and/or Romans 10:9-13 (which is Gospel) this means they believe in Christ's life, crucifixion (shedding of blood) burial and resurrection for the remission of our sin in this world, unto life everlasting with the Eternal creator, Yahweh. We are saved by faith, not works, lest any should boast. [Ephesians 2:8-9 , Titus 3:4-7]

There is nothing we can do with our finite existences on this earth that would ever inherit the gift of Eternal Life. We are already on borrowed time as it is, for we did not create ourselves. As Protestants, we acknowledge that the Bible states that Eternal Life is a gift that must be freely given by God, which we can either accept or reject based upon our acceptance of Jesus.

(Romans 6:23...For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord...)

Those who reject Jesus' sacrifice, from the Christian view, make Him to die in vain, since Jesus died to bear the sins of the world.

(John 3:16...For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.)

Another way to think of it is like this: Due to circumstances, the son of a great king dies, resulting in your life being spared. Now, the king knows that if it were not for you in this scenario, his son would still be alive. But, the king is so heart broken and filled with Love at the memory of his innocent son that instead of killing or imprisoning you he decides to free you. Not only on the charge that he sees you as responsible for such a crime, but completely free you, so that his son's memory not be marred with vengeance. Would you not accept such a gift?

Does it make no difference, then, that Catholicism requires the acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior, and that the consumption of Communion is the most important sacrament?


This was answered more above. However, religious rituals are a shadow of things to come. Salvation is not dependent upon adhering to them, but Catholicism unfortunately makes quite an emphasis on such practices. As a result, far too many Catholics believe that salvation is dependent upon works. As mentioned above, we are already unworthy of such a gift.

This type of Christian thinks that one must be a good enough person in order for Jesus to love and save them, but there is not a single one who is inherently Good in his/her own right, save for God Himself. Even the most ascetic people on earth still sin on a daily basis, whether they realize it or are too full of themselves to realize it (which would be spiritual pride, which is devastating to the soul)

(Romans 5:8...But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us...)

(Luke 5:32...I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.")

(1 Timothy 1:15...Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst...)

(Mark 2:17...When Jesus heard this, he told them, "Healthy people don't need a doctor--sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.")


Edited November 29th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0


The Bible expressly states that ritualism and religiosity is decidedly not necessary for salvation and is errant. Faith is ultimately all and all. Partaking of the Lord's Supper is done in reverence, but is not necessary for Salvation, as it is a work done by man. Baptism by water dunking is done to symbolize dying to this world and being raised to life with Christ, but again, it is a ritual that is performed by man and has no real bearing upon Salvation for this reason. A priest cannot save your soul by giving you penance, the priest is just a man.

However, we absolutely should maintain these things as they are simple and important sacraments of Christianity. (Excluding Catholic confession booths) Christians should confess their sins to one another in order to encourage us on and for necessary chastisement. (James 5:16) Here's what the Bible thinks about ritualism and added religiosity:

Colossians 2:16-23
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:
21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?
22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.
23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

Also, what about the general belief that God is in everyone and uses people to communicate with us?


Right, that is absolutely true and accepted across the entire spectrum of Christianity. This truth is even present and accepted in other religions, which speaks to its self-evidence.

What is the need to pray directly to Jesus rather than Mary when Jesus is God and God was in Mary as well? Wouldn't a prayer to Mary be inherently a prayer to God (slash, Jesus)?


Simply because Jesus wants us to. It's like, if you have a patent for an invention, and you had the # of the patent office in one hand, then you had the home # of the person who actually runs the patent office and you're actually friends with him and he actually cares about your idea and wants to help you out, which person would you rather speak with? I'd rather dodge all the middle-men and go directly to the Source, ya'know?!

(John 14:6...Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me...)

(1 Timothy 2:5...For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus...)

(1 John 2:1...My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One...)

(Hebrews 7:24-26...But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them...Such a high priest truly befits us—One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.…)

Randomly veering away from that line of questioning: how do you feel about things like "In God We Trust" being placed on money?


You're more than welcome to do that. Personally I could care less about such a thing. If America and the West actually had the Christianity (or) believe in God at all to justify such a statement on currency, then I would prefer it to stay. As things are now, I think the removal of such a slogan would be justified. I think if it were removed it would piss a lot of people off, but then I'd just have to shake my head at what a pointless thing to get pissed off about it would be.


It's my understanding that baptism is the most important sacrament, not Communion.


Baptism (genuine new birth, regeneration, circumcision of beast nature) is the only thing that matters. Period. And the water dunking is just a ritual, a shadow of reality.
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Changed-Heart
(Ezekial 36:26...I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh...)

(Romans 2:29...But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God...)

(2 Corinthians 7:10...For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death...)

(Romans 12:2...And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect...)

Posted November 29th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

I would say "I was baptised a Catholic, but I'm not religious" and would be met with the response "You are a Catholic then" as in once baptized its finalized.


Right. This is a great example of pure ritualistic mindset that many people have toward religion. I see myself like many others, a Christ follower first and foremost, a non-denominational protestant Christian secondly.

Posted November 29th, 2017 by Kaot0
Kaot0

Where was that assertion?

Here it is:

Why would someone want to?

Please explain to me PRECISELY how that question holds no ill intent. I'm listening.

Posted December 22nd, 2017 by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

Please explain to me PRECISELY how that question holds no ill intent. I'm listening.


Simply put, not everyone is Christian. This proves that some people genuinely don't understand what it is. Thus, questions surrounding Christianity occur. Hence, Xhin's question.

Read these verses—

[Colossians 4:5-6]
5 Act wisely toward outsiders, redeeming the time.
6 Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

[1 Peter 3:15]
15 But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to articulate a defense to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But respond with gentleness and respect,

Edited January 3rd by Kaot0
Kaot0

Sorry to get to this late. I didn't see it.

Please explain to me PRECISELY how that question holds no ill intent. I'm listening.

I didn't say it held no ill intent. I'm saying where was the assertion that nobody wants to be a Christian from Xhin's question.

Posted January 3rd by Fox Forever
Fox Forever

Because you missed it the first time, here it is again, with expanded context, because you appear to need it:

How does one become a Christian?

Why would someone want to?

NOW, somebody please tell me, why the ill intent? I have spoon-fed you everything you need to know. Please answer the question.

Posted January 6th by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

Somehow forgot all about this thread:


It's my understanding that baptism is the most important sacrament, not Communion.


Well, like most things Catholic, there isn't really just one thing. The Church doesn't exactly give preferences of sacraments, and - loving threes - generally puts baptism, Communion, and confirmation as all equally important, dogmatically. Baptism serves to wash away the Original Sin and serve as a rebirth of sorts, marking the start of one's new life in service to God. Confirmation sort of does the same thing (minus the washing away of Original Sin), with the added notion that because it happens when one is typically older than an unaware baby, it represents a personal choice and commitment to God (which to me would make it more valuable than baptism, which generally happens a lot more with babies - although not always, as anyone can get baptized at any point in their life).

Actually, when I really think of it, yeah, dogmatically, baptism, Communion, and confirmation kind of all are intrinsically connected thematically. Baptism marks the beginning of our life in service of God. Confirmation marks a moment of dedication and commitment to our service of God. And Communion marks the continual affirmation of that commitment and acceptance of Jesus into our heart and soul, to celebrate the Gospel, and to serve as a sort of spiritual sustenance (which is why Communion happens every week, while baptism and confirmation happen once).

Thing I was getting a bit held up on is that some pockets of Catholicism preach the notion of a sort of "spiritual baptism," that God can and will bless you with a metaphorical baptism for living a life that - in action - is in service to God and God's will (although my understanding was that it was more reserved for those whom missionaries couldn't reach, and thus knowledge of Jesus was limited or unavailable). I also admittedly get a bit wrapped up in confession, wherein sins are forgiven just by virtue of stating them to a priest. And yes, I know it's more complex than that - like Communion, it only "works" if you mean it. But I always had a bit of a hard time buying the idea that if you live your life in service of God, receive all the other sacraments, live that life genuinely, frequently attend confession, but die before you receive baptism, you're doomed to eternal suffering because of Original Sin. (My priests had some...interesting takes...as to the significance of Original Sin. Some believed it needed to be washed away in order to get into Heaven. Others believed that alone would not prevent people from getting in. No one has really accused modern Catholicism of being consistent across the world...)

(I forget that I oddly enjoy talking about this stuff, even though I believe in virtually none of it.)

Posted January 6th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

When I was more atheistic I would say "I was baptised a Catholic, but I'm not religious" and would be met with the response "You are a Catholic then" as in once baptized its finalized.



This is sort of the thing with Catholics. Dogmatically, this isn't quite accurate. The Church essentially does teach that one has to "mean it" for the sacraments to hold any real spiritual effect. In practice, it is sort of similar to how one is Jewish by lineage rather than actual belief (I forget: is it if your mother is Jewish, then you're Jewish?) It winds up being more of a cultural thing than a dogmatic thing.

There's always been, so far as I could tell at least, been a bit of a more glaring disconnect between what the Catholic Church dogmatically claims and what the Catholic church (worshipers) believe. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any Catholic who genuinely believes the wine is turning into the Blood of Christ or the bread the Body. Technically, dogmatically, the Church claims that is *literally* what is happening when the priest says that talk-singing prayer. (Can't remember what it's called.)

Granted, I've been out of the Catholic game for over a decade now, so maybe there has been some encyclical over the past ten or eleven years since I was in Catholic school that makes the official position more figurative, but the dogma and the practice are a bit disjointed. Which is a staple of Catholicism, really, and has often made it a target for mockery from other Christian faiths.

Edited January 6th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

(I forget that I oddly enjoy talking about this stuff, even though I believe in virtually none of it.)


It's still an interesting cultural and philosophical discussion, regardless.

Posted January 6th by nullfather
nullfather

Hey Jet I'll get back to you on this. Thanks

Posted January 11th by Kaot0
Kaot0

NOW, somebody please tell me, why the ill intent? I have spoon-fed you everything you need to know. Please answer the question.

THERE. IS. NO. ILL. INTENT.

If someone asked "why would someone want to be good?" it's a neutral question with no ill intent towards those who want to be good. You're interpreting it as ill intent but there's no intent good or bad yet. It's NEUTRAL.


Posted January 19th by Fox Forever
Fox Forever
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