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Would you agree with this statement : transgender is a mental illness
Posted: Posted June 19th
Edited June 19th by #85

and if you would disagree, explain why

There are 47 Replies

Transgenderedness is a mental illness; transitioning is the treatment.

Posted June 19th by Pink Peruvian Flying Bear
Pink Peruvian Flying Bear

not electro-shock therapy?

Posted June 19th by #85
#85

If there is legitimate evidence that it's caused by mental illness I'd like to see it. Otherwise, I'll remain neutral because claiming something is/is caused by a legit mental illness without evidence is fucktarded.

Posted June 19th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

@Knuck DSM-5 classified it as mental illness until like 3 years ago (could it be PC culture is invading science?)

Posted June 19th by #85
#85

Our understanding of science changes with new evidence, however that admittedly is possible.

Posted June 19th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

Im just pointing things out. I am not saying everything in psychology is right. Did you know there is an "illness" called Oppositional Defiant Disorder? You basically dont like to be told what to do. Um isnt that everyone? Lol so a lot of it is nonsense to be fair.

Posted June 19th by #85
#85

not electro-shock therapy?

Do you think that would help? Or, uh, to put it another way, do you figure that running a few thousand volts through a person to fundamentally change the way that they think is sound science?

Posted June 19th by Pink Peruvian Flying Bear
Pink Peruvian Flying Bear

Um isnt that everyone? Lol so a lot of it is nonsense to be fair.

Ya that's pretty ridiculous to have as a disorder unless it's only for extremely severe cases.

Edited June 19th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

Do you think that would help? Or, uh, to put it another way, do you figure that running a few thousand volts through a person to fundamentally change the way that they think is sound science?

I was just being facetious. I agree a mental illness. Whats the cure? well you cant cure it unless you get into eugenics. I would disagree that transitioning is the "cure". Many have regretted going through the operation. You can't "cut back"

Posted June 19th by #85
#85

Most people who are transgendered are on hormones for a few years before they get any surgery below the belt, so they're pretty sure of their decision. They don't generally just hack their dicks off and call it a day.

Posted June 19th by Pink Peruvian Flying Bear
Pink Peruvian Flying Bear

I'd say it's kind of a mental illness, but an unusual one that doesn't fit many of the criteria.

Gender dysphoria is a very real thing and causes significant distress to the person experiencing it.

It's also independent of social norms. This makes it different from being gay, whereby any distress a person experiences as a consequence of being gay is a result of external factors, not internal ones. That's why homosexuality hasn't been considered a mental illness for a long time.

For those who experience genuine gender dysphoria, then I would say yes, it is a mental illness. But one that can be treated with gender reassignment. After gender reassignment, it's difficult to say in what way the individual is any longer mentally ill.

Posted June 19th by Smiling Apple
Smiling Apple

The mental illness is gender dysphoria, which describes psychiatric stress caused by transgenderism (feeling like you are the gender opposite your body) compounded by societal non-acceptance and discrimination -- distress or impairment are required for diagnosis.

One can absolutely be transgender without having gender dysphoria -- i.e. they wouldn't meet the criteria for a psychiatric diagnosis.

Serious distress or functional impairment are required for virtually all psychiatric diagnoses with a few exceptions (e.g. delusional disorder).

Edited June 19th by Temerit
Temerit

All I can offer, anecdotally, is the observation that my transgender friend seems to be 100x happier and more stable than she was before she transitioned. Has a better job, supposedly in the running for a promotion, stable relationship with someone in similar circumstances. The train is very much back on the tracks instead of continuing to tumble down the hill into a volcano.

Could similar stability and life improvements have been reached with mind-altering drugs and psychologists? Maybe. Would she be anywhere near as happy? I doubt it.

Posted June 19th by Count Dooku
Count Dooku

I won't transition. I can tolerate my body and lifestyle. But it doesn't come naturally to me. Being a guy never has. Is it a mental illness or is it a body illness?

Like if you get a full body transplant is it that or is it a head transplant? What if you put a guy's brain into a female body? What gender is that person?

Edited June 19th by Red Leaf
Red Leaf

The notion of gender itself is a social construct each society has made based off the sex organs we were born with. I sometimes wonder if our cultural gender expectations have done more harm than good...

Posted June 19th by ShadowFox08
ShadowFox08

could it be PC culture is invading science

I agree that pc politics certainly makes the issue much more complicated than it already is. However, I think it's more accurate to classify gender dysphoria (rather than transgenderism itself) as the mental illness/condition. I don't know if you've ever watched Theryn Meyer, but she offered some well-reasoned arguments in support of this view.

Posted June 19th by Esprit
Esprit
 

I mean it would make sense even for me that if there were wolves and bears attacking our settlements, I as a large human should protect smaller ones. But I think if a woman is 6'6" she should help us fight too.

Edited June 19th by Red Leaf
Red Leaf

@Knuck DSM-5 classified it as mental illness until like 3 years ago (could it be PC culture is invading science?)

You know, scientists used to believe the planets revolved around the Earth, and genes morph over time, and Newton was an Alchemist who believed there was a way to turn a boring old piece of metal into gold, cigarettes were healthy, lead was a food flavoring, and radioactive isotopes made an amazing toy for CHILDREN. That last one was less than 70 years ago!

We used to believe time was not involved in physics, so the sudden dissolution of the sun would instantaneously send planets out of orbit. Then we discovered it actually was and no physical entity can exceed the speed of light, not even gravity, and we have obtained multiple pieces of evidence for it. And not too long ago Goldeneye 007 had really amazing graphics.

Whether you like it or not, Science marches on.

Posted June 19th by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up

@mariom What "new science" was discovered? Did you even know the DSM-5 lsited it until 3 years ago? Do you even know what the DSM-5 is? Its obvious you are ignorant and base opinions off uninformed emotional conclusions and have little to no knowledge of substantive facts.

It's also independent of social norms. This makes it different from being gay, whereby any distress a person experiences as a consequence of being gay is a result of external factors, not internal ones. That's why homosexuality hasn't been considered a mental illness for a long time.

What are you saying here Smiling. That if its normalized by society, that does what exactly? Legitimize it?

One can absolutely be transgender without having gender dysphoria -- i.e. they wouldn't meet the criteria for a psychiatric diagnosis.

How are the 2 different things?

The notion of gender itself is a social construct

We are talking abou tthe 23rd pair of chromosomes here. X is female Male is Y. This isn't a social construct. Its called biology.

Posted June 19th by #85
#85

What are you saying here Smiling. That if its normalized by society, that does what exactly? Legitimize it?

What I mean is, someone with gender dysphoria will suffer no matter what culture they're living in.

They could be living in a culture wholly accepting, or even encouraging, of transgender rights, and still feel crushing dysphoria.

Whereas if you were gay and living in a culture wholly accepting, or even encouraging, of gay rights, you wouldn't experience any negative feelings associated with your sexuality at all.

That's what makes the former a mental illness, and the latter a disposition.

Posted June 19th by Smiling Apple
Smiling Apple

with someone in similar circumstances

Naturally.

The notion of gender itself is a social construct each society has made based off the sex organs we were born with.

The classic trans paradox. Is gender an arbitrary construction dependent entirely on socialization or can someone have innate gender that conflicts with their sex? You can't have it both ways, though it is possible for neither to be true. Whatever the case may be, gender either has a biological basis or it doesn't. Choose wisely.

The mental illness is gender dysphoria, which describes psychiatric stress caused by transgenderism (feeling like you are the gender opposite your body) compounded by societal non-acceptance and discrimination -- distress or impairment are required for diagnosis.

What a strange distinction. Would it also be true that the anorexic girl that thinks she's fat is not mentally ill unless her imagined obesity causes her some sort of emotional distress? Or does the fact that the distress is the result of an obvious delusion get more at the root of the problem? You might say that there's no such thing as an anorexic without crippling emotional problems, but isn't that the point?

And before someone says so, I am well aware that the transgenderism/eating disorder comparison is well worn territory and that the two are very different psychological phenomena. As true as that might be, it nevertheless seems to me that transgenderism is the only condition with which we deny the obvious (so called "biological males" that feel like women aren't women in any way, shape, or form) and instead say that the illness is found in how this rejection of reality makes the sufferers feel bad.

Posted June 19th by Famov
Famov

The DSM is a standard of classifications of psychological disorders. In other words, it is a soft science classification that is useful but otherwise cannot be proven by genetics, and as a result classes can be removed, others can be added, and present conditions can be amended without any evidence whatsoever.

You made the claim that transgenderism is a psychological disorder. I said that could not be proven. You used a soft science classification, for all intents and purposes a Buzzfeed "10 best action movies that make you want to drive really fast" and presented it as evidence. The ball is in your park and you clearly fumbled. But you're too stupid to realize it, you need the intelligence of others to help you because you suffer from cognitive dissonance and constant anxiety as a result of your inability to place blame on yourself. Look it up in the crazy cookbook, I'm certain you'll find examples that apply to yourself on more than a couple of pages. It's a lousy argument. Just accept it.

Edited June 19th by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up

1984 is hard to get through it's so awful.

Posted June 19th by Red Leaf
Red Leaf

Well written but truly awful.

Posted June 19th by Red Leaf
Red Leaf

Aaand I put that in the wrong thread. Go me.

Posted June 19th by Red Leaf
Red Leaf

We should encourage transgenderism because it'll make women unattractive and make sissy men into sex objects for real men, thereby freeing us from the Roastie Menace.

Let's show women that we don't need them anymore. TBH, we should deport them all along with the Mexicans and Muslims.

Posted June 19th by nullfather
nullfather
You Will Never Be One Of Us

This idea of "something is a disorder even if the person with that personality trait doesn't feel distress about it" is nothing more than an attempt to control everyone and make them conform.

Which is ironic given how you're normally a libertarian with oppositional defiant disorder

Posted June 19th by Xhin
Xhin
 

Why do people paint feminine traits like they are a negative anyway. I'd still stand up and protect my family if I had to.

Posted June 19th by Red Leaf
Red Leaf

I said it before and I'll say it again: it's a behavior, and it's strange, but it's not evil. We now know (after trying it) that conversion therapy more often than not leads to gays committing suicide, and the suicide rate in America is already ridiculously high. So what might work is what Jesus originally told us to do: forgive others, and don't attempt to pass judgement, especially without knowing a person. Some of these transgendered people really look like the opposite sex. I don't understand it, and I don't like it, but I can live with it, and no, it's not a psychological disorder. There are a wide range of genes between men and women, and sometimes you'll find overlap on the fringes. I'd rather not live in a world where policemen arrest people for using the wrong restroom while billionaires dodge taxes and buy candidates and get away scott free.

Posted June 19th by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up

Damn, mguy's gone SAVAGE!

Posted June 19th by Chain Chomp
Chain Chomp

We should encourage transgenderism because it'll make women unattractive and make sissy men into sex objects for real men, thereby freeing us from the Roastie Menace.

Let's show women that we don't need them anymore. TBH, we should deport them all along with the Mexicans and Muslims.

This sounds like an awful plan to make Gerudos happen IRL, and then ironically a smarter Donald Trump facist incarnate +100 years later.

Edited June 19th by ShadowFox08
ShadowFox08

^^XD

Posted June 19th by Chain Chomp
Chain Chomp

Maybe Donald being reincarnated into a product of his own apartheid oppression could make him covet the wind this time, I suppose?

Posted June 19th by ShadowFox08
ShadowFox08

@mariom What "new science" was discovered? Did you even know the DSM-5 lsited it until 3 years ago? Do you even know what the DSM-5 is? Its obvious you are ignorant and base opinions off uninformed emotional conclusions and have little to no knowledge of substantive facts.


legit laughed my ass off when I saw it was 85 who posted this. Holy fuck.


still think pizza gate is a thing bro? or that Obama is not a U.S. citizen?

Transgernderism is a mental illness. Thats been the case for years now. If the only cure for it is someone undergoing a physical operation than so be it. Whats the big deal.

Posted June 20th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

The thing is, transgender people don't necessarily need sexual realignment surgery in order to alleviate their gender dysphoria. This is also an example of why it's useful (and not PC) to distinguish between transgenderism and gender dysphoria (the mental condition that causes distress). Surgery would actually be an extreme case, from what I understand.

Posted June 20th by Esprit
Esprit
 

The thing is, transgender people don't necessarily need sexual realignment surgery in order to alleviate their gender dysphoria

True. they dont. but if its the "cure" for the extreme cases I dont see what the problem is.



Trust me some times I question all this gender nonsense but end of the day just do what makes you happy as long as you are not a danger to others.

Edited June 20th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

This idea of "something is a disorder even if the person with that personality trait doesn't feel distress about it" is nothing more than an attempt to control everyone and make them conform.

I kind of have to agree with Xhin here unless there is a reason to believe otherwise. I also have to question why something is a mental illness just because "it causes distress". A lot of things can cause people distress in life and yet we aren't singling out every single thing that can distress people and calling them mentally ill for it.

Edited June 20th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

Just an excuse to bully men into "manning up" or not showing emotion. Or forcing women to have no agency over their own lives. Because God forbid we have our own personalities

Edited June 20th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

still think pizza gate is a thing bro? or that Obama is not a U.S. citizen?

yes and yes, any other questions?

Posted June 21st by #85
#85

How can you be this retarded.

Further proving my point that any one can get military clearance holy fuck.

Posted June 21st by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

not an argument

Posted June 21st by #85
#85



Common sense and logic seem to be strangers to you. Not surprising.



Posted June 21st by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Funny you are so opinionated about a subject you are lacking some serious facts on

Posted June 21st by #85
#85

Obama is a U.S. citizen what facts am I missing holy fuck how are you still alive seriously.

With your stupidity I expect you to raid that pizzeria by the end of Trump's term. Hope you enjoy federal prison bucko.

Edited June 21st by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Also it seems to me you should look up the facts concerning the two but you continue to disregard reality stay woke nigga.

Posted June 21st by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 



Posted June 21st by Chain Chomp
Chain Chomp



Posted June 22nd by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up
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