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09/11/2001 WE REMEMBER
Moderated by: Arch, Famov

"Fear is the foundation of most governments." - John Adams

"Despite the constant negative press covfefe" - Donald Trump

My friend said that she's been reading the news and read that England wants to rejoin the European Union.
Posted: Posted June 19th by weid manchester

I don't know if this is true but if it is this will be very shocking because they just left the European Union last year.

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There are 5 Replies

Might as well make this a Brexit thread.

Few points:

  • It's the whole of the UK (including Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland), not just England (England as a constituent country is probably the most pro-Leave of the lot);

  • The government's formal intention is to leave the EU, with a corresponding negotation over terms of exit and later trading terms. The policy is not to rejoin the EU. Public opinion either wants exit or is resigned to it with the caveat of mitigating the terms of exit (e.g. retaining single market membership). Only a small minority believes the government wants to reverse course, even if quite a few people would prefer to remain as a full member;

  • We haven't left yet - the vote last year was a public referendum on the subject. Formal negotiations start today (rather shakily, as the government is clearly not prepared). This will take two years, with further negotations looking to be more like 10 years plus.

    What your friend might have cottoned on to is the direction of travel perhaps leaning towards a 'soft' exit (i.e. maintaining certain facets of membership, like the single market and customs union, whilst shedding full membership rights). This is after Theresa May and the Conservatives failed to win a majority of seats in the election the other week, and having to dilute their aims if they are to be supported by the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) as part of key votes in Parliament.

  • Edited June 19th by Arch
    Arch
     

    Arch, why do you think there is so much talk now of a "soft" Brexit, when the overwhelming majority voted for parties committed to leaving the single market?

    Both the Conservatives and Labour made this commitment.

    Posted June 19th by Smiling Apple
    Smiling Apple

    Because politicians are duplicitous, not being honest in their intentions and also lying by omission (even Labour, certainly by being as ambiguous on the subject). But what else is new?

    I suppose it depends on how much the Tories are beholden to the DUP, but I would've said that might be the main impetus if they only uphold the government in a hypothetical no confidence motion incumbent on their demands being met. If the 'soft' border between the Republic and Northern Ireland is one of the main demands, then I don't see how the Tories can reconcile this with a commitment to leaving the Customs Union (and there's not much point in being in either the CU or the Single Market; it's either both or none at all).

    Also the Tories have made us looks like idiots by entering the negotiations with such hubris to suggest they'd get a whacking majority and there was nothing Brussels could do about it. And then subsequently lost their majority. Which is why I think there's a view towards 'soft' Brexit being more likely now.

    So I fully expect them to roll over at crucial moments while performing mental gymnastics in saying that they didn't - as they did today over the parallel negotiations timetable issue.

    Edited June 19th by Arch
    Arch
     

    Because politicians are duplicitous, not being honest in their intentions and also lying by omission (even Labour, certainly by being as ambiguous on the subject). But what else is new?

    The lie that we would leave the EU when we won't really be leaving the EU is a whopping big lie, even by politician's standards.

    If the 'soft' border between the Republic and Northern Ireland is one of the main demands, then I don't see how the Tories can reconcile this with a commitment to leaving the Customs Union (and there's not much point in being in either the CU or the Single Market; it's either both or none at all).

    Agreed, in which case, why has Theresa May just appointed Crawford Falconer to “develop and negotiate free trade agreements and market access deals with non-EU countries”, which would not be possible if we remained in the Customs Union?

    Also the Tories have made us looks like idiots by entering the negotiations with such hubris to suggest they'd get a whacking majority and there was nothing Brussels could do about it. And then subsequently lost their majority. So I fully expect them to roll over at crucial moments while performing mental gymnastics that they didn't - as they did today over the parallel negotiations timetable issue.

    Well, we agree there. The Tories' ability to monumentally fuck-up just about everything should never be underestimated.

    Posted June 19th by Smiling Apple
    Smiling Apple

    The lie that we would leave the EU when we won't really be leaving the EU is a whopping big lie, even by politician's standards.

    I think they'll just point to the dubious wording on the vote slips we marked with an 'X' almost a year ago and pretend it was a bad dream.

    Agreed, in which case, why has Theresa May just appointed Crawford Falconer to “develop and negotiate free trade agreements and market access deals with non-EU countries”, which would not be possible if we remained in the Customs Union?

    Well there's a few possibilities here:

  • They actually intend to commit political suicide by taking us out of the CU; or

  • they want to give the appearances of preparing us to be taken out of the CU, seeing as this equally applies to the entire Department for International Trade and the position of Liam Fox as a cabinet minister; or

  • they're completely incompetent morons.

    Well, we agree there. The Tories' ability to monumentally fuck-up just about everything should never be underestimated.

    And closing ranks/acts of regicide before coming back into power remarkably quickly. For some reason.

  • Edited June 19th by Arch
    Arch
     
    Reply to: My friend said that she's been reading the news and read that England wants to rejoin the European Union.

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