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09/11/2001 WE REMEMBER
Moderated by: Famov, Arch

"Fear is the foundation of most governments." - John Adams

"Despite the constant negative press covfefe" - Donald Trump

Man is arrested after ploughing a van into people outside a Mosque in London
Posted: Posted June 19th
Edited June 19th by ShadowFox08

One dead and 10 others injured


A van ploughed into worshippers leaving a London mosque on Monday, injuring 10 people in what witnesses said was a deliberate attack on Muslims.

One man, who was already being given first aid at the scene before the vehicle was driven into pedestrians, has died but police said it was not clear whether his death was directly linked. Eight others are in hospital, with two in a very serious condition.

The incident was being treated as a potential terrorist attack said Prime Minister Theresa May, which if confirmed would make it the fourth since March in Britain and the third to involve a vehicle deliberately driven at pedestrians.

"This had all the hallmarks of a terrorist incident," said Neil Basu, senior national co-ordinator for counter-terrorism policing. "This was an attack on London and all Londoners."

Shortly after midnight, the hired vehicle swerved into a group of people leaving prayers at the Finsbury Park Mosque, one of the biggest in the country, witnesses said. The attack comes during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

"This big van just came and went all over us," witness Abdulrahman Saleh Alamoudi told BuzzFeed News. "He (the driver) was screaming... 'I'm going to kill all Muslims'."

Police said the suspected van driver, aged 48, had been detained by members of the public before being arrested on suspicion of attempted murder.

"I would like to thank those people who helped police in detaining the man and worked with officers to calmly and quickly get him into our custody," Basu said. "Their restraint in the circumstances was commendable."

Eight people were taken to hospital and two were treated at the scene. Usain Ali, 28, who was near the mosque at the time, said he heard a bang and ran for his life.

"When I looked back, I thought it was a car accident, but people were shouting, screaming and I realised this was a man choosing to terrorize people who are praying," he told Reuters. "He chose exactly the time that people pray, and the mosque is too small and full, so some pray outside."

The attack comes at a time of political turmoil in Britain, as May, weakened by the loss of her parliamentary majority in a June 8 election, plunges into divorce talks with the European Union.

She has faced heavy criticism for her response to a fire in a London tower block last Wednesday which killed at least 58 people, and for her record on security after a series of attacks blamed on Islamist militants in recent months.

"All my thoughts are with the victims, their families and the emergency services on the scene," May said, adding that she would chair an emergency response meeting later on Monday.

The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, said extra police had been deployed to reassure communities, especially those observing Ramadan, describing the attack as "an assault on all our shared values of tolerance, freedom and respect".

The leader of the opposition Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, in whose constituency the attack took place, said he was "totally shocked".

The incident comes just over two weeks after three Islamist militants drove into pedestrians on London Bridge and stabbed people at nearby restaurants and bars, killing eight..

It also follows a suicide bombing at a pop concert in Manchester, northern England, in May which killed 22, while in March, a man drove a rented car into pedestrians on Westminster Bridge in London and stabbed a policeman to death before being shot dead. His attack killed five people.

Police had said hate crimes had risen after the London Bridge attack and they had stepped up their visible presence at places of worship.

The Muslim Council of Britain said Monday's attack was the most violent manifestation of Islamophobia in Britain in recent months and called for extra security at places of worship.

"It appears that a white man in a van intentionally ploughed into a group of worshippers who were already tending to someone who had been taken ill," the council said in a statement.

Police said they were called just after 12:20 a.m. (2320 GMT Sunday) to reports of a collision on Seven Sisters Road, which runs through the Finsbury Park area of north London.

"From the window, I started hearing a lot of yelling and screeching, a lot of chaos outside ... Everybody was shouting: 'A van’s hit people, a van’s hit people'," one woman who lives opposite the scene told the BBC.

The Evening Standard newspaper said the van appeared to have been rented in Wales, although there was no immediate confirmation of this from the authorities.

Miqdaad Versi, assistant secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said the van had deliberately swerved into a group of people who were helping a man who was ill and had fallen to the ground.

"Basically, a van swerved into them deliberately," Versi told Reuters, citing a witness.

He said the driver had run out of the van but a group of people caught him and held him until police arrived.

The Finsbury Park Mosque gained notoriety more than a decade ago for sermons by radical cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri, who was sentenced to life in a U.S. prison in January 2015 after being convicted of terrorism-related charges.

A new board of trustees and management took over in February 2005, a year after Abu Hamza was arrested by British police, since when attendance has greatly increased among worshippers from various communities, according to the mosque's website.

Members of the congregation in the two mosques in the area are mainly from North and West Africa.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-idUSKBN19A016

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There are 11 Replies

Terrible incident. Yet more innocent people mowed down in pursuit of some twisted, vile ideology. We must face up to the fact that far-right extremism is a real threat, and do something to combat it.

However, I wonder how many of the assorted scumbags on this board who jumped to blame Britain for the attacks in Manchester will employ the same logic to this incident?

How many of them will say "what did they expect when Muslims are blowing up and mowing down innocent Brits?" And maybe throw in a "lol" for good measure? I wonder how many of them will take a keen interest in the perpetrator's "grievances" and demand that we do something to make people like him feel less aggrieved?

None of them, probably. And I would hope not. I only hope they recognise that justifying the indiscriminate murder of innocents (or "explaining" it, as they would call it) is always despicable, and can never be justified.

Edited June 19th by Smiling Apple
Smiling Apple

Shut the fuck up SA. I went back and read what was said and no one was "justifying" or "blaming britain", and almost everyone appears to be tired of your bullshit. I mean, clearly the argument that... the actions of NOT just Britain (which appears to be what they were saying) provoked every single terrorist does not actually apply to each and every terrorist, that seems a little silly to me. But, man you are assuming they are justifying it and "blaming britain" when there is literally no reason to believe this. I'm not even one of those people as far as I know, and even I am annoyed! If you want to be a delusional asshole at least keep it to yourself because you must realize that you won't convince them that what their own intentions are different from what they know, nor will you convince them that what they actually said is any different from what they know they said.

You are literally flamebaiting and insulting right now and there is nothing good that can come from this and I think even you know that. Fucking reported tbh.

However, I wonder how many of the assorted scumbags on this board who jumped to blame Britain for the attacks in Manchester will employ the same logic to this incident?

I don't know, when's the last time a right-wing terrorist had their country of origin attacked and how many times in comparison? I could grant you that they do probably get a lot of hate and "persecution" (for good reason).

How many of them will say "what did they expect when Muslims are blowing up and mowing down innocent Brits?"

Well considering no one was saying Britain had it coming, I don't see why it would be hypocritical to not say that.

I wonder how many of them will take a keen interest in the perpetrator's "grievances" and demand that we do something to make people like him feel less aggrieved?

Gee, I had no idea that saying attempting to make people less aggrieved was such a terrible thing and means you're blaming British citizens! Also, I don't recall reading any "demands" just more like a "hey maybe we should pay more attention to this"

And I would hope not. I only hope they recognise that justifying the indiscriminate murder of innocents (or "explaining" it, as they would call it) is always despicable, and can never be justified.

I mean maybe if anyone was actually doing that they would recognize that.

Edited June 19th by KnucklesMK9
KnucklesMK9
 

I see I messed up that post quite a bit initially but the point still stands. There's no reason to have this in every fucking thread.

Posted June 19th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

As the causes and catalysts of Islamist violence need to be ruthlessly examined and scrutinized without fear or favor (Saudi-financed Wahhabism, violent preachers who prey on isolated young men, societal alienation, political policies that destabilize and introduce violence into various regions, the arrogance and indignation that allows people to believe they have a moral monopoly on the right to kill, blockages to assimilation, the knowledge that mass media will cause their deeds to gain infamy and grant the attacker the fame and immortality they were denied in life, etc.) so too must people rise to the occasion to try to expose what made this man so hateful (some guesses: EDL, violent and indignant rhetoric about the need to "take the country back" from "them", societal alienation, a need to belong to a cause greater than oneself and yet paradoxically picking a very angry and self-centered path, Britain First, a gutter press and echo chamber dialogue that dehumanizes whole swaths of people and encourages simplistic and fearful "solutions", racial indignation, etc.).

It is my experience that people who are seriously engaged in such dialogues are rarely "blaming" victims, nor seeking to use their explanations to accommodate or justify those who have killed.

Posted June 19th by JJ
JJ
 

Imam protects the terrorist from the crowd he plowed into http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/europe/finsbury-park-hero-imam/index.html

Posted June 19th by ShadowFox08
ShadowFox08

Jesus fucking Christ SA.

Posted June 19th by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Glad I am not the only loon in this flock of birds.

Posted June 19th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

I have to confess, when I saw the headline I immediately assumed (based on the method of attack) that it was an act of Islamic terror. For what it's worth I try to always know the basics of what I'm talking about before I run my mouth and say something stupid, which is why I realized my mistake before making a post. As for why I'm saying this at all... well, I think it's important. Humans are entirely too comfortable allowing perceived patterns to influence their preconceptions, and I was not prepared to see a different brand of extremist using the terror tactic of running over groups of people with motor vehicles.

Posted June 19th by Famov
Famov

honestly, i had the same gut reaction, famov. this is absolutely an ISIS tactic (they mention it in their magazines and call U-Hauls "affordable weapons"). this fucker must have chosen it to send a message.


"Imam protects the terrorist from the crowd he plowed into"

i would have let the crowd have their way with him.

Posted June 19th by poptart!
poptart!
 

At least Britain called it a terrorist attack

the guy:




in other news a 22 year old man abducted and killed a 17 year old muslim girl outside a Mosque in Virginia and left her body in a pond. This was hours after the london attack, and her father thinks it could have been a hate crime. The police don't think its a hate crime, however the timing of it is all with the most recent events in London leave people suspect.



http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/muslim-teen-killed-trnd/index.html

Edited June 19th by ShadowFox08
ShadowFox08

There was a point and time in our history when pattern recognition meant the difference between life and death. If a type of fruit was harmful and people didn't remember it, they would be more susceptible to death than those who realized those mistakes. Humans classify things by color, shape, size, various facets of appearance, and other senses. These traces still exist but do not mean anything today. Most of modern civilization started just a few hundred years ago, and all civilization some ten thousand years ago. Before then there was just hunter-gatherers.

This is the danger of continuing racial bias. I don't like PC, but without it you have something worse: everyone stereotypes everyone else and all of society falls to pieces. We just stopped lynching "niggers" a couple of generations ago, and we just realized gay people actually love each other last decade. It will take a while before we understand what it means to be human, but until then I'm not going to make rash decisions.

It should be said the target of most attacks by ISIS are actually other Muslims. Makes sense since there are a couple billion of them, and if you just strike a generic civilian population your bound to hit a lot of them. But this doesn't fit the newsroom narrative of Muslims attacking the West, so those details often get thrown out on purpose. The selective nature of modern news makes me sick. The last time I saw a decent Muslim on TV was on a children's cartoon in 2004. Even in the 21st century racism STILL persists. I do believe more positive role models are necessary now more than ever. We need them.

Posted June 19th by mariomguy
mariomguy
Reply to: Man is arrested after ploughing a van into people outside a Mosque in London

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