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Cavs or warriors?
Posted: Posted June 1st by Warrior mad

I'm compelled to root for the cave even though I get lebron because he's a greedy asshole all due to what zaza did to Leonard which was blatantly harmful and he should be suspended for the rest of the playoffs.

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There are 33 Replies

I still think Golden State wins that conference finals even if Leonard isn't hurt. It's not 100% (like how the Cavs still win the eastern conference even if IT doesn't get hurt), and it would have been much more entertaining a series.

But either way, I've got the Warriors in 5. I seem to be alone in thinking this won't be much of a series. Bottom line is that the Warriors have a sneaky good defense that people tend to forget about because their offense is so explosive. The Cavs defense isn't the worst, but it hasn't been particularly good for most of the year. If LeBron has a bad game, Irving can't beat the Warriors on his own. Conversely, if Curry has a bad game, Durant can take over. If Durant has a bad game, Curry, Green, or Thompson can. Thompson himself had a horrible offensive night in game 1, yet was a key player in their win, playing among the best defense we saw in the game.

I don't think this is going to be a good series.

Posted June 2nd by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

It's hard to imagine any team with LeBron James getting completely trashed, but if it ever happens, this Warriors team is the one to do it. When you take what was arguably one of the best teams in NBA history and add one of the best scorers in NBA history, the result is going to be tough to beat. But I'm still nervous, because the Warriors have such high expectations that anything less than a title is going to be viewed as a colossal failure...much like last year.

I'm still not used to rooting for the "favorites" in a major sporting event (aside from the Olympics and Serena Williams in tennis, I suppose). Oakland sports teams have been so putrid for most of my life that it's weird seeing one with actual expectations.

Edited June 2nd by white lancer
white lancer
 

Cavs have no d

Posted June 4th by weid man
weid man
 

Yeah, that was a bit of a beating. Actually looked like it would be a good game for the first half, but GS pulled away in the third to make it not much of a contest. Even with the Warriors being turnover-happy, the Cavs didn't really threaten them in the second half.

As I said, I'm never counting a LeBron James team out, especially after last year. But it's a lot harder to see this healthy Curry Warriors team with Durant collapsing like the Dubs did last year. It helps a lot that Klay has been stifling on Irving on defense--as great as LeBron is, he can't win this series by himself, and Irving was the main X-factor that pushed the Cavs over the top last year (especially in that fateful Game 5 without Dray, where he and LeBron both dropped 41). They'll also have to get some meaningful contributions from roleplayers like JR Smith and Tristan Thompson, like they did last time.

Posted June 5th by white lancer
white lancer
 

I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the NBA this year. Not even the finals. I think I've become solidly of the opinion that college basketball is more enjoyable to watch. NBA is a bit too showboaty for me and only about 3 or 4 people are focused on.

Anyway, the Oakland Warriors will win.

Edited June 5th by Jahoy Hoy
Jahoy Hoy

Speaking of college basketball, Wichita state will join the American athletic conference next season, since they wantto make more money. I'd like ur if northern Iowa joins too but valspiriao is joining the Missouri valley conference in order to try and convince northern Iowa to stay in the conference, since Wichita state departed to the American athletic conference and the conference wants to keep the same number of teams. I don't think that northern Iowa will depart to the American athletic conference or any conference at all but who knows what will happen next.

Posted June 5th by weid man
weid man
 

The cavs CHOKED at HOME in front of their home crowd! I bet people were jeering lebron after the game ended because he didn't defend KD tightly at the very end when he made the three pointer in belron's face and lebron stepped out of bounds while having possession of the ball with 10 seconds remaining down by 3. How embarrassing for one of the best top scorers in NBA history.

Posted June 8th by weid man
weid man
 

What a game, though. One of the, like, three good basketball games from start to finish in the entire playoffs. Cavs showed up and played some defense. The refs really let them get physical, which helped. (Also, these Finals have really highlighted to me just how much refs alter the way they call a game based on where they are...)

The Warriors are just too loaded. The Cavs offense is basically either LeBron or Kyrie. By no means do they have a bad cast of secondary players, of course. But it is hard to win against an all-time great team when your offense is either LeBron takes over (as he did in the first half) or Kyrie takes over (as he did in the second). Meanwhile, the Warriors are a team in which almost anyone can break out from that starting lineup. Draymond Green generally isn't a scoring machine this year, but his defense and energy can sway things. Klay Thompson can just randomly take off and put up 16 points in a quarter. Steph Curry and Kevin Durant, obviously, can take over a game. It's just too much.

Has to be disheartening to the Cavs. To lose it that late in the game after those performances from their two superstars is gut-wrenching. I think they come back to take Game 4, but, well, coming back from 3-0 is a bit different than coming back from 3-1, especially against a better Warriors team.

Posted June 8th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Glad to hear it was a good game. I'll watch the highlights, but I just.....I can't with the NBA.

Posted June 8th by Jahoy Hoy
Jahoy Hoy

At least all these players are getting paid while also earning their white wealthy overlords billions of dollars!

(That's generally my biggest gripe with college sports...)


Cavs showed up defensively for the bulk of the game. Tough to go out on that note. LeBron seemed so dejected after the game. They really need more from their role players. Love struggled offensively, but made up for it with defense and boards. But you need more than two two-way players and one defensive player to beat these Warriors in a single game, never mind a best of 7.

I'm pretty excited for Durant. I know people will want to shit on him (while also kind of rooting for Cleveland and LeBron), but a ring is a ring. And KD has played a substantial role in getting the Warriors to this point. I actually do think he's genuinely been the MVP of the team all season long. I don't think they get here without him. It's easy to look at the power around him and downplay his significance, but he really has been one of the biggest reasons they are in the Finals and up 3-0. He deserves more credit than he'll probably get from NBA fans, and he'll deserve that ring just as much as LeBron or Jordan or Bird or Kobe or any of the other greats that were part of great teams if they finish this.

Posted June 8th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

I haven't watched a single game all year but I'm pretty sure winning the championship is just gonna bring back all that preseason flame from the people that hated on KD taking the easy way out by signing with the Warriors. A roster that stacked should sweep through the playoffs. Imagine if OBJ and Richard Sherman signed with the Pats, they would win championships for eternity but everyone would hate them too.

Posted June 8th by Speed Bike Pro
Speed Bike Pro
 

That game was incredible. I tuned in halfway through the second quarter and was enraptured the entire rest of the way, even though it looked like my team was going to lose for the bulk of the second half.

The Cavs can't really play better than that--it looks like the Warriors basically just took their best shot. A bunch of those shots Kyrie took in the third looked like there was no way they should go in, but they all wound up falling the right way...and when Kyrie's risky shots fall the right way, the Cavs usually win by double-digits. LeBron was incredible as always, and it's ludicrous to me that people are questioning his legacy after that performance he gave last night and really all playoffs. As Jet mentioned, Love was pretty great on defense, and the Cavs even got some good production from J.R. Smith, making it reminiscent of last year...aside from Tristan Thompson again being nearly nonexistent.

The scary thing is that I still don't think we've seen the Warriors play their best in these finals. They've been really sloppy with a ton of turnovers, and key players have vanished on offense for large stretches (KD and Klay both had periods where you could be forgiven for forgetting that they were still in the game, though Steph was pretty solid throughout--speaking of, I think Steph's performance has been incredible and is getting unfairly overshadowed by KD's). Draymond also got himself in foul trouble pretty early. That said, they were pretty stellar in those last couple of minutes--they erased the lead so quickly that I almost didn't realize it was happening. And their defense cannot be overlooked, especially holding Cleveland scoreless when they went on their run at the end there.

Posted June 8th by white lancer
white lancer
 

I definitely understand the gripe with a lack of compensation for college players and agree that there should be some if the college is profiting off of their name and image.

My main issue with the NBA is that the stars take away from the game if that makes sense. I feel like they can get away with a lot more (double dribbles and such) than college players do. Maybe it's just me tho.

Posted June 8th by Jahoy Hoy
Jahoy Hoy

The Cavs final couple minutes were bonkers, too. They played 45 minutes of great basketball, and then the last 3 were bad. I'm still not sure why Kyrie spent 18 seconds dribbling only to settle on a step back three when they were in a position for a two-for-one. I don't get why LeBron is getting flack for passing to Korver wide open in the corner on one of his late drives, but I also don't get why he opted to post up and do a tough fade away jumper over Iguadala when actually had a step on him and could have driven to the hoop. I don't understand why they subbed Tristan Thompson in for defensive reasons and then didn't point out that LeBron should be quick to switch after a pick so he winds up on Durant. I don't really understand their final play when Iguadala stripped LeBron of his desperation corner three. That's not a great play in the first place, never mind the great defense from Iguadala.

They just ultimately got outcoached and outplayed in the final three minutes.

Posted June 8th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

They had to be exhausted by that point--LBJ and Kyrie had played for almost the entire game, and there were definitely some tired shots in there. And the crazy part is that they HAD to stay in--LBJ was at +7 in a game where he was on the court for almost 46 minutes, and his team lost. They got completely crushed when he was on the bench, so they had to keep him in to avoid getting blown out completely even when he had to be getting worn down.

Posted June 9th by white lancer
white lancer
 

Shit it doesn't look like it's gonna happen. Odell Beckham said to curry "you ain't gonna go undefeated". This will be so sad if the watriors lose the game.

Posted June 9th by weid man
weid man
 

Holy shoot the cavs scored 49 points in the first quartwr. I don't think that the warriors can comeback now given the way they are playing on defense and they are down 16 which is quite a large deficit to overcome but it still is possible. As the line in I'm on a boat reads "like kevin garnet, everythinfnis possivle!!" Alluding to the 2008 NBA finals when the celtics erased a 24 point third quarter deficit to beat the lakers in game 4 at staples center. Wish I had watched this happen but I was playing brawl and beat boss battles on intense with yoshi just before the game ended so I got to see the last minute ending of it after the celtics took the lead.

Edited June 9th by weid man
weid man
 

Cavs playing out of their damn minds right now. Can't sleep on the Warriors, but the refs sure do look like they're intent on insuring that the lead won't slip. That first quarter took a fucking hour...

Posted June 9th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Yeah, Warriors aren't going to come back from this based on how Cleveland is playing. They refs are pretty locked in for Cleveland too, which doesn't help. So they might as well start thinking about saving up for a return to Oakland, where the refs will be more favorable to them.

Posted June 9th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Not as bad as the refs in the lakers-kings western coherence finals in 2002! Also I edited my reply and added more deta at the very end. Remember how the celtics came back down 24 points against the lakers in 08? The warriors can do it here tonight.

Posted June 9th by weid man
weid man
 

The warriors need to learn how to play defense. They are not going to win this game if they don't step up on d.

Posted June 9th by weid man
weid man
 

Yeah. I generally don't turn the TV off on the Warriors, but this is done. Refs got better in the second half, but so did the Cavs, so. Here's hoping we get at least one more good game in these Finals.

Posted June 9th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Well you can call this game over because the warriors are just trading basket with the cavs. I really wanted to see history happen but it's not going to, all because of shitty defense. Defense wins championships eagle told me t years ago on Skype.

Posted June 9th by weid man
weid man
 

I missed the game, as I was out of town with no internet...how in the world does a team score 49 points in one quarter, let alone against one of the best defenses in the league? Crazy. Can the Warriors top their feat from last year and blow a 3-0 lead? Stay tuned!

Posted June 12th by white lancer
white lancer
 

I didn't watch much of game 4...why are you blaming the refs for the Cleveland win, Jet? What happened? Has it been bad all series?

Now the NHL is over, so I'll probably start watching this series to get my sports fix.

Edited June 12th by Jahoy Hoy
Jahoy Hoy

Can the Warriors top their feat from last year and blow a 3-0 lead? Stay tuned!

That would be hilarious!!! Just for Draymond Green's reaction alone.

I wish the Warriors were as likable as they were a couple years ago. I'm finding myself rooting for LeBron et al., which isn't typical of me.

Posted June 12th by Jahoy Hoy
Jahoy Hoy

I didn't watch much of game 4...why are you blaming the refs for the Cleveland win, Jet? What happened? Has it been bad all series?


Hard to blame the refs for the Cavs win in Game 4. Cavs straight up manhandled the Warriors.

But that first quarter literally took a full hour to play and the Cavs were awarded with something like 22 free throws in a single quarter. They were definitely not calling things consistently. It was kind of insane how one sided they were calling the fouls, especially when you watch that game, the Cavs were being far more physical.

Cavs dominated, and the refs also made some straight up confounding calls throughout (they were one sided, but they were also just straight up bad as well).



It hasn't been a bad series, actually. There were two bad blowouts that were worth watching for player/team dominance, but those aren't always the most entertaining in a Finals match up. Game 3 and Game 5 were great games, though. When a series ends 4-1, it's easy to pass it off as not competitive, but it those were great games.



I wish the Warriors were as likable as they were a couple years ago. I'm finding myself rooting for LeBron et al., which isn't typical of me.


I still don't really understand what really changed that made everyone turn on the Warriors. I still love Curry and Thompson and Iguodala, plus they have some great bench players like McCaw and McGee and Livingston. And I really don't understand why anyone didn't want to see Durant win one. I get why people don't like Green or Pachulia, but I'm not really sure what happened that made everyone start to hate the bulk of the team. Steve Kerr is also great and classy.

I equally don't understand people rooting against LeBron. It reminds me a bit of the Tom Brady or Peyton Manning hate (depending on where you're located in the country). Like, why hate greatness? I don't understand. I didn't want the Cavs to win because I like the Warriors organization more than Cleveland (seriously, fuck Dan Gilbert, that piece of shit owner who spoiled some of the best years LeBron had by not giving him help, then nearly ruined their chance of getting him back by being a complete asshole and flaming absurd amounts of hatred towards him in the gap years), and because Kevin Durant is amazing and deserves a ring. But LeBron was what, averaging a triple double? That's insane!

I'm never going to root against great players. Just for other ones or organizations.

Also, Kyrie man...


Can the Warriors top their feat from last year and blow a 3-0 lead? Stay tuned!


Nope. It's a bit sad because LeBron and Kyrie were the two best individual players on the court for the past three games. (Followed by Durant.) They got help! JR Smith played out of his mind and made a bunch of big shots. Thompson and Love were inconsistent, but they got production for periods. The two best individuals were completely unstoppable.

But you really need an offense built around the team more than individual players. LeBron and Kyrie were the only consistent aspects of the team. When you look at their minutes compared to the best players on Golden State, it's easy to see why the Warriors won. You ride on the backs of super star performances at your own risk. Both LeBron and Kyrie looked gassed. LeBron did what he could late, but by that point, there was only so much they could do...

Posted June 13th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Love screwed the pooch two nights in a row.

Posted June 13th by Jahoy Hoy
Jahoy Hoy

I seem to have gotten lucky in that the two games I was able to watch virtually in their entirety were easily the two best games of the series. Jet pretty much nailed what the difference was--Irving and James were great, but they were obviously exhausted by the fourth quarter. Irving in particular pretty much vanished for that period (he missed every shot he took after the third quarter), and James pretty much scored only when the Warriors let him drive to the hoop virtually uncontested for fear of fouling him. Every once in a while, the broadcast would put the bench points for both teams on the screen, and the Cavs were stuck at 2 for most of the night (while the Dubs must have had 4 or 5 bench players outscore Cleveland's entire bench). Strength in Numbers indeed--when you look at the starting five, Cleveland looks like a superteam in its own right, but they really have pretty much nothing beyond that.

I do still think the Warriors didn't really play to their top level during this finals, aside from maybe that run in the second quarter last night--Klay's shooting was really subpar outside of Game 3, and even Steph wasn't knocking down a lot of threes. It almost felt like Steph was having an off-scoring night last night until they displayed his point total--he was getting it done on layups and free-throws rather than from beyond the arc. At the same time, Cleveland's starters played out of their mind the last three games, including the roleplayers that made a difference last year in JR and Thompson. If that continued for the duration of the series, the Cavs absolutely would have beaten a KD-less Warriors, but that's far from a guarantee.

People are going to take away from this championship because of the KD acquisition. It's certainly fair to suggest that they may not have won without KD this year, though I think other scorers would have closed the gap and made it a tight series, but Golden State was about as organic of a formation of a super-team as you can get (three out of their four stars were drafted by GS). I mean, it doesn't feel as sweet of a title as 2015 did (that being the first real relevance for the team after years of mediocrity), or really as sweet as the regular-season record from last season, but a title is a title. Of course, it was also good to see KD get his first ring (he's a class act and obviously good enough for a title), and it certainly helps that it was a little payback from that 3-1 loss of last year.

How long can the Warriors keep this together? I have no idea. Wouldn't be at all surprising if more than one of their stars took less than the max to try to keep the group together, but money is still going to be an issue. KD and Steph work so well together (much better than KD did with Westbrook), so even if those two alone continued together they would be a force to be reckoned with...though it would be a bit of a shame to lose Thompson or Green, as central as they've been to this team of late. I can't imagine the four superstars staying together for more than a couple of years.

Posted June 13th by white lancer
white lancer
 

Yeah, it was strange hearing announcers talk all year about Golden State's bench like it were a weakness when they got great minutes from Livingston, McCaw, and McGee off the bench (and during the season, some nice stretches from Ian Clarke, who I really like but is very streaky). That Cavs team is by no means bad. They'd be competitive in the Western Conference if they were there. JR Smith played pretty great the past few games. Thompson and Love had stretches contributing, but couldn't maintain any consistency.

I think Irving was hurt down the stretch in Game 5. They showed him getting worked on, I think it was his back. You could definitely see him kind of hunched over when he went to the bench. That's ultimately the downside to riding two great players with absurd performances. You tire them out, and increase their chances of injury. No one on the Warriors "took over" the way that Irving or LeBron would rotate, and that's why the Warriors are a better team.

I know people were already taking away from Durant and the Warriors even before the season started, and those are the same people who take away from LeBron for literally everything. I never understand the arguments of, "Well, he had to join a super team to win," as if Cleveland wasn't trying to create a super team of their own for the past few years. And it's not like any of these other all-time great players won on their own. I don't really like comparing modern players to past players, but it wasn't exactly like the '90s Bulls or '80s Lakers or Celtics weren't incredible teams around all-time greats. Kobe was a major reason the Lakers won in the early aughts. I never saw the point of saying, "Well, he won rings because of Shaq."

The theories I'm reading is that at most, they can maybe hold this team together for up to four years. I'd be surprised if it's this potent for more than two years. I suspect Klay Thompson will be the first out of there.



What are people's thoughts on LeBron? Do you see him in Cleveland for much longer? Rumor has it that he wants to head out to the Western Conference, which I think would be great. That's where most of the best players and teams are, and I think LeBron is every bit a competitor that Jordan was in that he wants the competition. Makes it more challenging to get to the Finals, obviously, since if he goes to LA (as is rumored he's interested in), then the path goes through Golden State or San Antonio (versus Boston or Toronto, which is much easier). I think that's something he enjoys, though. It's something Jordan never really had to deal with through his run of complete dominance.

Posted June 13th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Can't forget Iguodala as a key bench contributor, though to be fair he's always expected to do more than the likes of Zaza. Iguodala picked up Klay's slack on offense in that last game for sure.

Irving definitely got banged up early in the game--it didn't seem to slow him down in the first half, but I think it took its toll as he got more tired near the end (much like Steph last year).

The moaning about super-teams is really played out...I get that people don't want to see the same two teams in the Finals year after year, and I don't either...but last I checked, this is a team sport. Perhaps the NBA needs to do more to enable league parity, but there's always going to be a "best team." And nobody should be taking away from LeBron or KD after the performances they had these Finals.

Four years would be a little insane, but even if the Warriors lose one or more of their stars, they'll probably settle into a role similar to the Patriots in the NFL--a consistent contender, and occasionally the best team in the league. I'd prefer LeBron to stay in the East, however, if only to prevent the Finals from being anticlimactic--he's the main reason they've even been competitive recently. I suppose the playoffs on both sides might be more competitive if LeBron went West, but (barring other major shifts) I suspect that whoever won the West would be a virtual lock to win the championship.

Posted June 13th by white lancer
white lancer
 

I'm at the point where I'd almost rather the NBA just straight up downsize so that we get fewer teams loaded with more talent. I know that will never in a million years happen, but still. I don't think anyone is expecting this Warriors team to actually stay together for four years, but I've heard that it is technically in the realm of possibilities.

Also, it might sound crazy, but don't sleep on the Celtics. I don't think they'll be true competitors for the title for a few more years, but they've been quietly building a strong future and have the opportunity to acquire a few more critical pieces, and have good coaching.



Posted June 13th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Yeah, the Celtics were the one team I was thinking might be able to fill the gap in the East if LeBron were to leave. They've got a lot of options over the next couple of years. And I wouldn't mind seeing Brad Stevens take them on some good runs moving forward--I still recall his NCAA trips with Butler.

Edited June 13th by white lancer
white lancer
 
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