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Spirituality, Religion, Theology and Philosophy


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Why does it have to be Satan?
Posted: Posted May 4th
Edited May 4th by KnokkelMillennium

Earlier I was having a... "discussion" (I feel the need to stress that this happened in real life NOT on the internet) with someone who believes that cern is literally trying to destroy god and make their own way into heaven.

Naturally this comes from this person listening to Christian sources, which, when I look it up also leads to conspiracy theorists.

Anyway, this person told me to go back and look up a video where they're dancing to Satan. So I google it and find this, it's the only thing specifically involving dancing that came up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JwIO5k7gdg
I did also find this, no idea what's going on with this though since the video won't load anymore:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/chilling-satanic-human-sacrifice-video-8655022
But something this video and that have in common is that they both seem to be staged. And one specifically says "Shiva" not Satan. I know to a lot of Christians any other gods are instantly Satan, but why? And why is it every time something weird is happening it's seen as the work of Satan?

Sadly, while obvious there is little discussion to be had on people who are narrow-minded, because as soon as I disagreed with this person's view on it, it of course turned into me being screamed at.

There are 30 Replies

>but why? And why is it every time something weird is happening it's seen as the work of Satan?

Because memes. Literally. "Satan" is the Christian-framework meme for "bad shit that would fuck up our belief system". It's a name.

Given that Christianity is the prevailing belief system of the Western world and has been for centuries, their memes are the most ingrained, even among those who are not explicit believers.

Edited May 4th by nullfather
nullfather

It's dumb when it happens like this. I know Christians don't all think like this but they're pretty much everywhere. I guess it's not so much me asking why it has to be Satan, but why they refuse to ever look outside of this way of thinking.

Posted May 4th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

Because it's hard to deprogram/reprogram decades of indoctrination, it's threatening to their culture and it doesn't provide a fast-return tangible benefit.

Edited May 4th by nullfather
nullfather

I know to a lot of Christians any other gods are instantly Satan, but why?

Satan is a common Christian explanation for the miracles of other faiths. If God is the only god then non-christian miracles shouldn't happen unless it is the devil trying to trick you.

Posted May 4th by Louis De Pointe du Lac
Louis De Pointe du Lac
No love = No future

A pretty intelligent scam.

Posted May 5th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

I think the real issue is, why does asking the question in the OP inevitably lead to people making blanket statements?

A religious person does something right, nobody remembers.
A religious person does something wrong, NOBODY FORGETS.

An atheist does something right, nobody remembers.
An atheist does something wrong, nobody remembers.
An atheist does something REALLY wrong, it's not the person's atheism that becomes the subject of public conversation. Why? Because atheists don't travel to public buildings on a weekly basis to be taught the right thing to do, and thus aren't held to a higher standard.

Posted May 5th by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

Don't take it so personally. It's only an annoying trait and I talk of and I think of people on the same level regardless of their religion. The problem isn't the religion, the problem is this mentality they adapt. Atheists can annoy me just as easy. I mean have you SEEN some of the obnoxious "I'm so much smarter than you" Atheists on youtube who talk out of their ass?

I do remember when religious people do good and I wish people could see more of the good in religion, but negative traits have to be stamped out too.

Edited May 5th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

Really now? A few people act like those people described in the OP, the non-religious people in this forum act like all religious people are like that, and when I take umbrage at them blaming the whole for the actions of a few, you seriously say, "don't take it personally"?

but negative traits have to be stamped out too.

In order for you to use the word "too" in that sentence, you have to be fair and balanced and take the time to point out the positive traits of religion just as frequently, and I never see you do that, so don't give me this "I'm one of the checks and balances" crap.

Edited May 12th by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

Yea, because I don't think the people in this thread are the kinds to mean it like "all Christians are like this"

and I never see you do that, so don't give me this "I'm one of the checks and balances" crap.

Maybe you never see me do it because the politics forum (lately it's not even discussed there much anyway, but when it IS now days I also know that they're fixed in their train of thought and nothing will sway them) was far more active and religion used to be talked down upon generally far more there and because this forum is really dead? Thus every time I would need to, it would take place on that forum which you are never on? I was pretty sure I have on this forum before, but I guess you just have a bad memory because in all honesty I trust my memory over yours. Now THAT is personal but not in a way that extends to your religion. Just how you behave as a person here. Also where were you during all the times people talked down on religion in general in the politics forum??? Could it be that you are a hypocrite too??? (see, I can judge you based on a dead forum hardly anyone posts on too!). On the politics forum, and plenty of other places I was usually the only one disagreeing with people, saying that they're wrong about religion being terrible on a whole and they're wrong about religious people on the whole. Saying there's good effects it can have too. I find the varying beliefs and way of life very interesting, and it irks me to see like FOR EXAMPLE peace-loving neo-druids or gnostics or sikhs be lumped in with people who do this. It just seems like needless scapegoating to say "MUSLIMS are the problem" when people should know by now for a fact that that it's only certain kind of Muslims. It should also be a given that not all Christians hate gays and so on. The problem is you're fighting battles you can't win and truthfully you do bring it on yourself quite a bit and that has nothing to do with your religion. It has to do with how YOU act and sometimes how you falsely perceive people and also your assumptions about them and their arguments. And I'm not going to just jump in with people who won't listen anyway to defend YOUR honor.

Also because uh. There's no reason to on THIS specific forum? Look, if you expect me to do that on this specific completely dead forum 24/7 maybe you should be examining your own ridiculous standards. PLUS as I... thought I said before, but should be obvious it was more venting and there was no where else to put this thread fittingly.

I am not criticizing the religion as I also said, I am criticizing the person and their behaviors. The thing is, you just jumble the two things together on your own, and really you seem to only make enemies on this forum anyway. So why do you think any good will come from you telling me something I know to be untrue while you're... apparently trying to spit on me as a person by calling out a nonexistent hypocrisy? You can do that all you want, but I know it's a lie. I just don't bother with a dead forum where I know the arguments have been done to death anyway unlike you (However I'm PRETTY sure I have somewhat as well. Maybe you should actually know more about a person before you decide speak as if you know it for a fact by saying "so don't give me this "I'm one of the checks and balances" crap."). Because you sure aren't being balanced when literally all I see you do is spit fire at or back at people you disagree with yourself, so you have absolutely no room to talk there either. And again, that's you not your religion. Just like the other people here such as psyg are the way they are through no fault of religion.

I do speak of ACTUAL religion more positively than I don't. But this isn't that, this is someone with a negative behavior and way of thinking that has adapted that to religious concepts. Notice I said "traits" I did not say "part of a religion". As I have said before many times in the politics forum, I believe that often the fault lies with how a person handles the beliefs, not the beliefs. Yet you take it so personally anyway.

That said though, meanwhile you only ever are seen defending your own beliefs or anything "Christian" by me. Since this is all I see you do, is it not fair for me to call you a hypocrite by the same logic who is only looking out for themselves?

Edited May 12th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

Also in case you can't figure it out for some reason, I'm saying the negative traits in humans in general need to be stamped out. Some just attach themselves to religion and use religion for that.

So even if it's as you think with me allegedly not talking about religion positively and defending religion (it's not, and I'm not going to do it EVEN MORE than I'm pretty sure I already did on this dead forum where the arguments have been done to death anyway and no one cares or will listen just to make a point to you that I already know is invalid, at least not right now) the problem was never with religion in the firstplace, hence why I said "don't take it personally". Because religious or NOT it is entirely in a person's power to not be an asshole more than any other person or a belief system's power.

Posted May 12th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

Thus every time I would need to, it would take place on that forum which you are never on?

Forgive me, I did not get the memo that this was a requirement.

Politics has no ultimate right answer, but spirituality does. Also, politics thinks it gets to the right answer by indulging in the adversarial system, which is unfortunately the precise flashpoint for flame wars. Politics calls itself the art of the possible, but only second-rate minds enter politics. Can you now understand why I'm here and not there?

The problem is you're fighting battles you can't win

Again, that is wishful thinking on your part. It is not reality. The only reason why YOU THINK I can't win is because of your bias, because of your opinions you stubbornly refuse to change(e.g. your personal definition of "evidence" etc.), because I don't tell you what you want to hear, because you incorrectly think things are not worth learning if it requires you to come out of your comfort zone, and because of the vastly incorrect internet maxim of "he who is loudest wins."

Maybe you should actually know more about a person before you decide speak as if you know it for a fact

Really now? What would you know about facts if you actively refuse to remain ignorant about religion(and specifically mine)? How could you POSSIBLY know which is fact and which is not fact if you're judging something you purposely know nothing about? What leg could you possibly stand on as far as your "facts" are concerned? Something does not magically become a fact if it supports your bias.

Just like the other people here such as psyg are the way they are through no fault of religion.

Really? Then you tell me why Psyg is so dead-set against religion if he doesn't blame it. I've asked him several times, and he has always dodged the question. The deep truth behind any person's break from religion is ALWAYS selfish. It's never the fault of the religion itself.

Yet you take it so personally anyway.

Why not? So many people strut around saying they're in possession of "the facts" when they're really nothing more than opinions based on stubborn bias. My religion is constantly under attack. This is not a "persecution complex," I had to deal with these people on a daily basis for two years. The exact same arguments are being made here, and I have the answers for all of them, not that you would listen, because I don't live down to your sacred expectations. Just because you choose to deny certain things exist, doesn't mean I shouldn't take the existence of these certain things personally.

is it not fair for me to call you a hypocrite by the same logic who is only looking out for themselves?

I am not looking out for myself, I am defending from- and revealing the truth to- those who would deny what I say because of ingrained and deeply held biases.

it is entirely in a person's power to not be an ***hole

I am not an ***hole, I just have a low tolerance for people judging something they know perfectly nothing about, calling confirmation bias "fact," and closing their minds to any philosophical concept because they're mortally afraid to leave their comfort zones in order to explore it.

Posted May 15th by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

Forgive me, I did not get the memo that this was a requirement.

It's not a requirement, it's just that you've brought this up several times now and I've already told you that it's not as you think so I have to explain why.

Again, that is wishful thinking on your part. It is not reality. The only reason why YOU THINK I can't win is because of your bias

What bias? I have no bias. The reason you can't win is because they are not willing to listen (and really neither are you).

because of your opinions you stubbornly refuse to change(e.g. your personal definition of "evidence" etc.)

I have no idea what you're talking about. I just see you lumping me in with other people and what they said simply because I'm presenting you with a harsh rebuttal to something about me which I know isn't true.

because I don't tell you what you want to hear, because you incorrectly think things are not worth learning if it requires you to come out of your comfort zone, and because of the vastly incorrect internet maxim of "he who is loudest wins."

Again, I have literally no idea what you're talking about. I'm not doing any of these things. I really don't know why you want to make an enemy out of everyone including me.

Really now? What would you know about facts if you actively refuse to remain ignorant about religion(and specifically mine)

Why are you assuming I know nothing about religion? Why are you assuming I said anything negative about religion in my last post? Literally where are you getting any of this from? This just seems to be arguing against an argument that was never even remotely made by me...


I've been religious before and I do continue to study all kinds of religions, because as I said I find them interesting. I don't know where you're getting this.

How could you POSSIBLY know which is fact and which is not fact if you're judging something you purposely know nothing about?

What am I judging here? It just looked like YOU were judging me. That was LITERALLY a statement on your judgement of ME, and how you seemed to be talking about your opinion of me as though it were a fact.

What leg could you possibly stand on as far as your "facts" are concerned? Something does not magically become a fact if it supports your bias.

Again what "fact" are you talking about, and when did I claim it as a fact?

Really? Then you tell me why Psyg is so dead-set against religion if he doesn't blame it.

I said it's through NO FAULT of religion, NOT it is the fault of religion. He totally does blame religion for a lot of things openly. I'm just saying you tend to be not much better if at all better from the other side of things.

The deep truth behind any person's break from religion is ALWAYS selfish. It's never the fault of the religion itself.

Again, I did not say anything about it being the fault of religion. I literally said the opposite.

Why not? So many people strut around saying they're in possession of "the facts" when they're really nothing more than opinions based on stubborn bias.

I mean. You do this as well, just on different levels. I'm not justifying anyone doing this though. You need to realize that people being critical of certain behaviors is NOT always an attack on your religion. Of course people like Psyg do blame the religion as a whole but not everyone is doing that. I don't believe that's what was happening HERE. However, you are free to disagree with my opinion.

I am not looking out for myself, I am defending from- and revealing the truth to- those who would deny what I say because of ingrained and deeply held biases.

Maybe so. Just don't be calling me something I'm not if you don't want to be called something you're not.

I am not an ***hole, I just have a low tolerance for people judging something they know perfectly nothing about,

You've yet to explain how I know nothing about religion or how I am judging religion. Honestly you seemed to be the first one to do this in this thread.

Edited May 15th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

The kitchen where I work has a buffalo wing flavor called Satan's Blood. It entertains me. Especially because our levels of heat are Mild, Medium, Spicy and Satan's Blood. Seems like a bit of a jump.

Posted May 16th by nullfather
nullfather

You do this as well

I don't strut around, and you can't tell me I'm not in possession of the facts unless you've experienced what I've experienced.

It's not a requirement

Then why are you yelling at me for not knowing what goes on there?

That was LITERALLY a statement on your judgement of ME

I'm only judging you because your judgment of me is based on something you said you choose to remain ignorant about. I'm not calling you out solely for being judgy. I actually know what I'm talking about. You do not.

He totally does blame religion for a lot of things openly.

And he refuses to tell me why. Maybe he's afraid I'll change his mind or something. You know how bigots hate having their agendas and propaganda proved wrong.

Maybe so. Just don't be calling me something I'm not if you don't want to be called something you're not.

And everybody on the planet says, "This ends with YOU ending it. This does not end with ME ending it." Thus, it never ends.

Posted May 16th by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

I don't strut around, and you can't tell me I'm not in possession of the facts unless you've experienced what I've experienced.

You were LITERALLY trying to act like you have the facts on ME, something only I could know. By your logic here on the conversation that was ACTUALLY happening, you should be telling this to yourself.

Then why are you yelling at me for not knowing what goes on there?

Why are you yelling at me with false accusations for the multiple time which I had already answered to in the past?


I'm only judging you because your judgment of me is based on something you said you choose to remain ignorant about. I'm not calling you out solely for being judgy. I actually know what I'm talking about. You do not.

Okay mr. egotistical.

And everybody on the planet says, "This ends with YOU ending it. This does not end with ME ending it." Thus, it never ends.

Agreed actually! But that doesn't change our nature. You're involved in this as well.

Posted May 16th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

By your logic here on the conversation that was ACTUALLY happening, you should be telling this to yourself.

I'm addressing the nub and the crux, the reason why all of this starts. The above sentence tells me you only seem to care about what happens later.

You're involved in this as well.

We're ALL involved in this, so don't call me on the carpet for something we're all guilty of. Motes and beams and all that.

Okay mr. egotistical.

Puhleeeease. Nobody is egotistical just because they've said something you disagree with. Petty people like to psychoanalyze somebody based on one post, never mind the fact that they've never had any psychological training. Never address the problem, just call names. It's like you've never left the fifth grade. Can't win the argument? Switch the subject. Petty people do this all the time in arguments, still doesn't make it right.

Posted May 16th by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

I don't know what your problem is or why you're trying to witch hunt me or even what you're talking about anymore, but if you could just stop being... whatever this is, that would be great.

Puhleeeease. Nobody is egotistical just because they've said something you disagree with. Petty people like to psychoanalyze somebody based on one post, never mind the fact that they've never had any psychological training. Never address the problem, just call names. It's like you've never left the fifth grade. Can't win the argument? Switch the subject. Petty people do this all the time in arguments, still doesn't make it right.

That wasn't an argument though. That was you saying I'm judgy when you're not even explaining what I was initally judgy about. Then I actually call you egotistical and actually judge you because you seem to love absolving yourself from the negative behaviors you see in others.

You know I would actually have a serious discussion with you instead, if you were actually aiming to have one, but all I see you doing is accusing me of vague things and then not explaining further.

Edited May 16th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

That was you saying I'm judgy when you're not even explaining what I was initally judgy about.

And this is evidence of egotism? No. This is only evidence of annoyance.

You know I would actually have a serious discussion with you instead, if you were actually aiming to have one

That is truly why I come here, to have a serious discussion. But the non-religious on this page are not interested in dialogue, only monologue. The old, "I talk, then you shut up and go away." This is the source of my annoyance. But no, you stomp your feet and claim annoyance is only righteous when YOU do it. Now I'm not going to call that egotism because that's not egotism, and I'm not petty.

Posted May 16th by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

If you're not that petty why was your 2nd post in here just a baseless accusation?

Posted May 16th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium
The machiavellian menace

It's only baseless in your opinion. Why are you getting after me when all the posts before it level baseless accusations at Christianity? Because you agree with them? Because it's only good when the non-religious make statements about the religious, and it's not good when the religious make statements about non-religious?

Edited June 21st by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

GC I don't even understand why you come here. You show up like once a month and you're always arguing something ridiculous that wasn't even about you.

Posted June 21st by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

Did I not just get through saying that I come here to have serious discussions? Too bad nobody else does.

So let me turn that question around. Why do YOU come here? Seems like you come here to have your bias confirmed, and when your bias doesn't get confirmed, you whine about how much the site sucks. Am I wrong?

Posted July 1st by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

Every discussion you're in is comedy GC. Every single one I chuckle at.

Posted July 1st by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

Laugh all you want. Go right ahead. Laughing doesn't make you right. I'm not so insecure that I can't handle a biased person's simple laughter. I didn't come here to be popular. I come here to prove atheism wrong. I ask again, what do you come here to do?

Apparently the answer is: to be an immature schoolyard bully.

Well, I've got news for you. I've had guns pointed at me. So color me unimpressed by your laughter. Come at me, bro.

Posted July 12th by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

XD

Posted July 12th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

>I come here to prove atheism wrong.

You're right, GC. I'm finally ready to admit that after years. Atheism is not the way.

Posted July 12th by nullfather
nullfather

Apparently some people have discovered the pointless "power" of sarcasm(see also: the inability to think up something witty and devastating).

Posted July 21st by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

GC - do you think you have ever converted someone to religion in the decade+ time you've spent talking about it online? Serious question.

Posted July 21st by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

>do you think you have ever converted someone to religion in the decade+ time you've spent talking about it online?

He brought me to religion.

Posted July 22nd by nullfather
nullfather

Mufasa, I don't come here to convert people to my religion anymore. I tried it a few times, and get trolled to within an inch of my life. So I'm just here to tell the non-religious why they're wrong.

Besides, one of the times I tried it was with Nullfather semi-recently, and he told me he would TRY to find the evidence, but it seems all he has found is sarcasm.

Posted July 28th by GC/MS
GC/MS
 
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