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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Trailer
Posted: Posted April 19th by Trever Leingod



So basically we were down to one Jedi in Return of the Jedi. The trailer for this film insinuates more than just a title character in Luke being "The Last Jedi" as in he's now the only one left, but that he is perhaps the last there will ever be.

Now Luke is like "it's time for the Jedi to end".

Wasn't much of a return, was it...

The trailer really gives very little to the plot overall, as expected since the last one did the same thing, and leaves an interesting premise.

One thing that bothers me though is that it doesn't seem to connect all that well with what came before it. They are again referring to a "balance" and potentially insinuating that it is lacking due to the Jedi's existence. This contradicts what Anakin accomplished in destroying the Sith. Despite some fan theories suggesting the "balance" meant having two Jedi and two Sith, George Lucas confirmed Anakin completed his destiny by destroying the Sith, not turning on the Jedi, that the Dark Side is essentially a cancer in the Force and not a balancing piece on the either end of the scale. Now they seem to be all like "meh, screw what the original author intended, we'll do our own thing, yo?"

It could be an interesting twist, no doubt, but I definitely hope they didn't end up dropping the ball on consistency and a better arc overall, just to spite Lucas' intentions because of the criticism of the prequel trilogy.

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There are 29 Replies

We've had this conversation on the site before but it's pretty obvious that by balance he just meant "get rid of the evil". Like a spiritual balance, not a literally balance.

I don't really know what they're going for with this story since this is all we have right now but it could just be Luke has become pessimistic and part of this films arc will be Rey convincing him to return and try again.

Or it may just be a red herring, and he'll be like "It's time for the Jedi to end... And my new thing to start, which will be just like the Jedi but less stupid this time."

I don't think they are doing it to spite Lucas at all. I do think Disney had a phase where they were intentionally distancing themselves from the Prequels, but this was in the run up to Episode 7 where they wanted people to have faith in what they were creating. But that's all it was, it had nothing to do with spiting Lucas back then. And now they are much more open to including Prequel Era stuff in things again (Rogue One, Battlefront 2, Rebels, etc).



Also something that may or may not end up being a plot in the films, but the new novels are strongly suggesting there is a threat coming from the Unknown Regions. Either we're in for a Vong 2.0 storyline in the novels or they setting something else up, but it's not really clear where that is going yet.

Posted April 19th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

Here's to hoping Luke has gone grey jedi like... others have even in disney's own canon and something exciting happens.



George Lucas confirmed Anakin completed his destiny by destroying the Sith, not turning on the Jedi, that the Dark Side is essentially a cancer in the Force and not a balancing piece on the either end of the scale

George Lucas is George Lucas though. Besides, I like the idea of there being a deeper meaning to balance anyway.

Edited April 19th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

It's also worth pointing out even Yoda, in episode 3, doubted the prophecy... Claiming it could have been misread. So they can just use that as a reason to change it :P

But honestly the prophecy was stupid and I'm glad that they are (hopefully) just going to ignore its existence.

Posted April 19th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

George Lucas confirmed Anakin completed his destiny by destroying the Sith


Ok, but whether you care about canon or just want decent movies/stories, is this something Lucas confirmed within the confines of his movies or any of the books, or is this something he confirmed through an interview? I have little patience for creators "clarifying" details through interviews. If you meant it a particular way, maybe be a li'l clearer in your art. That's what I generally base things off of.


"meh, screw what the original author intended, we'll do our own thing, yo?"


I don't exactly see what the issue is with that. Who cares what the original author intended at this point? He's not involved in the project anymore. Disney owns the rights. It's theirs now. Is it maybe nice if they respect some of the original intent? Maybe, if the idea is good enough to merit that respect. If not, fuck him, ya know? They should do their own thing. (Even though I suspect Disney Star Wars will continue to be pretty sanitized, generally uninspired stories driven by capitalism more than creativity overall.)


it could just be Luke has become pessimistic and part of this films arc will be Rey convincing him to return and try again.


I suspect this will be the case as well. I think he's clearly going to be all like, "She is too old. I can't train her." And then Obi-Wan will be all like, "So was I, if you remember." Or whatever. And then he'll train her. Trials and tribulations: I imagine a bit of Rey getting pulled a bit to the Dark Side, maybe even a little Kylo hesitating and giving the option for returning to the Light Side.

Gonna be annoyed when they kill him, though.




Posted April 19th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

We've had this conversation on the site before but it's pretty obvious that by balance he just meant "get rid of the evil". Like a spiritual balance, not a literally balance.

Yeah I am pretty sure we did, and while we agreed on that bit, others preferred the literal balance thing.

I don't really know what they're going for with this story since this is all we have right now but it could just be Luke has become pessimistic and part of this films arc will be Rey convincing him to return and try again.

Or it may just be a red herring, and he'll be like "It's time for the Jedi to end... And my new thing to start, which will be just like the Jedi but less stupid this time."

Maybe huh? Like just change their title to something like "Knights of the Force" or whatever and slightly change their philosophy to something more open-minded.

I don't think they are doing it to spite Lucas at all. I do think Disney had a phase where they were intentionally distancing themselves from the Prequels, but this was in the run up to Episode 7 where they wanted people to have faith in what they were creating. But that's all it was, it had nothing to do with spiting Lucas back then. And now they are much more open to including Prequel Era stuff in things again (Rogue One, Battlefront 2, Rebels, etc).

Perhaps not a direct spite to Lucas, but they wanted to depart as far as they could from the prequels, so far as to not include in them in the Battlefront reboot (which absolutely sucked purely due to the new system they made which was a massive departure from the old series'). They also completely disregarded Lucas' ideas for the sequel trilogy. Despite the prequels having glaring flaws, they weren't completely crap either and if someone just used Lucas' base ideas for those films they still could have been good. Whatever the case was, it definitely seems like at the time they didn't want to touch anything relating to the prequels with a 39-1/2 foot pole.

Also something that may or may not end up being a plot in the films, but the new novels are strongly suggesting there is a threat coming from the Unknown Regions. Either we're in for a Vong 2.0 storyline in the novels or they setting something else up, but it's not really clear where that is going yet.

That really would have been a preferable way to start the new trilogy instead of A New Hope 2.0.

Posted April 19th by Trever Leingod
Trever Leingod

so far as to not include in them in the Battlefront reboot


It's not certain that this was a conscious decision though. It's since come out that they literally rushed the game out in order to beat the Force Awakens release date, which is why the game had practically nothing in it at launch.

They also completely disregarded Lucas' ideas for the sequel trilogy. Despite the prequels having glaring flaws, they weren't completely crap either and if someone just used Lucas' base ideas for those films they still could have been good.


I mean, here's the thing though. Were his ideas any good? Why do you believe that they should have gone with his ideas instead of their own? He sold Star Wars to Disney, he gave up his right to be involved. If he wanted to be the one who made this trilogy he should've just done it instead of talking about it for like 30 years.

Posted April 19th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

Idk why people think he sounds like he's still a jedi or he "just wants to get rid of evil" and such in this trailer though. And the fact that he's saying there's so much more than light and darkness should seal the deal. He's attempting to become neutrally enlightened in one way or the other and for whatever reason, he now seems to believe the jedi are a problem (which I guess could include the sith but idk. I'm no star wars expert).

Posted April 19th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

I mean, here's the thing though. Were his ideas any good? Why do you believe that they should have gone with his ideas instead of their own?


I'm inclined to agree with this. I'm not even sure I would agree that the prequels weren't "completely crap" either. The ideas I found most interesting in those were ones that were almost certainly coincidental, given how under-developed they were. I'm not sure I would agree that Lucas is such an Idea Man that I'd be inclined to use his ideas over my own, if I had the rights to make my own Star Wars story. I've heard some of the ideas he discussed for a sequel trilogy, and I'm not sure I recall hearing many good ones.

Posted April 19th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

It's also worth pointing out even Yoda, in episode 3, doubted the prophecy... Claiming it could have been misread. So they can just use that as a reason to change it :P

But honestly the prophecy was stupid and I'm glad that they are (hopefully) just going to ignore its existence.

Canon-wise, sure. What Lucas said was his intention for the prophecy was clarified in-story.

Yeah it was pretty pointless. The story would have turned out no differently without the Chosen One Prophecy and without midichlorians. They could have been just like "Hey, I can feel this kid is REALLY strong in the Force, more than anyone I have ever felt." And the story would have ended the same.

Ok, but whether you care about canon or just want decent movies/stories, is this something Lucas confirmed within the confines of his movies or any of the books, or is this something he confirmed through an interview? I have little patience for creators "clarifying" details through interviews. If you meant it a particular way, maybe be a li'l clearer in your art. That's what I generally base things off of.

It was an interview, so yeah, it was never clarified in-story. Apparently some of this off-screen/page stuff, like anything JK Rowling elaborates on - such Lupin being a fence-hopping gay and Dumbledore being gay, or Dudley and Harry being kinda cool with sending each other Christmas post cards as adults - gets accepted really well by some and not by others.

I don't exactly see what the issue is with that. Who cares what the original author intended at this point? He's not involved in the project anymore. Disney owns the rights. It's theirs now. Is it maybe nice if they respect some of the original intent? Maybe, if the idea is good enough to merit that respect. If not, fuck him, ya know? They should do their own thing. (Even though I suspect Disney Star Wars will continue to be pretty sanitized, generally uninspired stories driven by capitalism more than creativity overall.)

If you were saying screw it to the prequels, maybe - since they were criticized horribly by a strong portion of the fan base. But departing from how they left the original trilogy, that's could make some die-hard fans pretty angry. Unless they all consider his "intent" as something that is basically in the same line as the prequels.

I suspect this will be the case as well. I think he's clearly going to be all like, "She is too old. I can't train her." And then Obi-Wan will be all like, "So was I, if you remember." Or whatever. And then he'll train her. Trials and tribulations: I imagine a bit of Rey getting pulled a bit to the Dark Side, maybe even a little Kylo hesitating and giving the option for returning to the Light Side.

Please no more recycled plot points... It's especially silly they did it with Luke, considering they were planning to train him all along.

Gonna be annoyed when they kill him, though.

Would be nice if they shocked us: let him convert, live and actually kick some First Order hiney.

It's not certain that this was a conscious decision though. It's since come out that they literally rushed the game out in order to beat the Force Awakens release date, which is why the game had practically nothing in it at launch.

I did actually read an article that they purposely did not put anything related to the prequels in the game. Could probably find it with a little digging.

I mean, here's the thing though. Were his ideas any good? Why do you believe that they should have gone with his ideas instead of their own? He sold Star Wars to Disney, he gave up his right to be involved. If he wanted to be the one who made this trilogy he should've just done it instead of talking about it for like 30 years.

You are right, his ideas could have been complete crap. We'll never know unless they release details on them. But I find it a bit odd they find no merit in the ideas at all that they couldn't adapt the ideas to some extent.

Idk why people think he sounds like he's still a jedi or he "just wants to get rid of evil" and such in this trailer though. And the fact that he's saying there's so much more than light and darkness should seal the deal. He's attempting to become neutrally enlightened in one way or the other and for whatever reason, he now seems to believe the jedi are a problem (which I guess could include the sith but idk. I'm no star wars expert).

Whatever he is saying here is vague as can be. Typical trailer to send people out of their minds.

I'm inclined to agree with this. I'm not even sure I would agree that the prequels weren't "completely crap" either. The ideas I found most interesting in those were ones that were almost certainly coincidental, given how under-developed they were. I'm not sure I would agree that Lucas is such an Idea Man that I'd be inclined to use his ideas over my own, if I had the rights to make my own Star Wars story. I've heard some of the ideas he discussed for a sequel trilogy, and I'm not sure I recall hearing many good ones.

So you think the prequels were complete crap?

The only ideas I remember hearing about the sequel trilogy were ideas born from before Return of the Jedi, maybe even before Empire Strikes Back. Luke finds his twin sister, who wasn't even Leia, and the first trilogy ends with Vader being defeated, and the second trilogy would focus on their quest to become powerful enough to defeat the Emperor. A much longer series and in-depth original trilogy, in a way. Something about how they ended Return of the Jedi did leave me feeling that Lucas was like "Meh, I think I'll just end it here after all."


Posted April 19th by Trever Leingod
Trever Leingod

I did actually read an article that they purposely did not put anything related to the prequels in the game. Could probably find it with a little digging.


Please do because I was not aware that it was an intentional thing.

He's attempting to become neutrally enlightened in one way or the other and for whatever reason, he now seems to believe the jedi are a problem (which I guess could include the sith but idk. I'm no star wars expert).


That is a possibility. When you consider if the Jedi are a problem in the sense that these bad guys keep rising up to kill them off :P

For your Sith comment, to my knowledge they died with Vader and the Emperor in episode 6. There has been no mention of a return of the Sith. I think there's a lot of people who are assuming Snoke and Kylo are Sith, but that's not the impression I am getting from the movies or the novels. Sith dead, but some new bad guys using the Force have shown up seems to be the general idea.

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Also I get that this was a teaser trailer but a little disappointed we got no shots of the Knights of Ren... Makes me concerned that they will, yet again, not appear (that dream sequence doesn't really count). They were mentioned a lot in the publicity stuff prior to Ep7 and then they got a brief mention in Ep7 itself. It's time to see them in action.

Posted April 19th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

There has been no mention of a return of the Sith. I think there's a lot of people who are assuming Snoke and Kylo are Sith

I assumed Snoke was and that he intended to keep Kylo as a more balanced force user for reasons unclear. Tbh I haven't even watched either 7 or rouge one yet but I have seen quite a bit of videos concerning the movie. At any rate, neither seem to be jedi so it's puzzling why what they are wouldn't be mentioned unless he's using jedi as a catch-all term, which. Idk why he would.

Posted April 19th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

Please do because I was not aware that it was an intentional thing.

I don't think this is the article I read a few years back, but the producer did confirm they were "focusing solely" on the original trilogy here.
http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/star-wars-battlefront-snubbed-prequel-trilogy/
For your Sith comment, to my knowledge they died with Vader and the Emperor in episode 6. There has been no mention of a return of the Sith. I think there's a lot of people who are assuming Snoke and Kylo are Sith, but that's not the impression I am getting from the movies or the novels. Sith dead, but some new bad guys using the Force have shown up seems to be the general idea.

Even when they came back in the EU, it was kind of BS because the new ones were basically "LOL I'm a Sith now" when there was no left to pass down the mantle traditionally. So Snoke could call himself a Sith and no one would stop him, but the original order ended with no succession.

Also I get that this was a teaser trailer but a little disappointed we got no shots of the Knights of Ren... Makes me concerned that they will, yet again, not appear (that dream sequence doesn't really count). They were mentioned a lot in the publicity stuff prior to Ep7 and then they got a brief mention in Ep7 itself. It's time to see them in action.

Yeah that's pretty pointless to make up an order and then they never have any screen time. Granted, we got very little footage as it was, and we only got one shot of Kylo seemingly in a lightsaber fight, so there's plenty of room for them to appear still. They should have a major presence in at least one of these three new movies. Just about everything about Kylo Ren except whose son he is left to question still.

Edited April 19th by Trever Leingod
Trever Leingod

From the article it seems they said this:

“Sometimes you have to make choices, and those choices may be hard. We are the ones making the game and have to making hard choices sometimes. One of them was to focus solely on the Original Trilogy. The reasoning I’d rather have someone like Figge comment on”


They don't exactly give a reason. The fact that he said they had to make the decisions and that he won't say what it was lends to the idea that it was a time thing rather than a "we should just not include this thing" thing. Even the article says it might be because of time.

Posted April 19th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

They don't exactly give a reason. The fact that he said they had to make the decisions and that he won't say what it was lends to the idea that it was a time thing rather than a "we should just not include this thing" thing. Even the article says it might be because of time.

It also suggests it was because "Another reason Star Wars Battlefront doesn’t include the prequels is because nobody likes them." It wasn't like it was a particular feature or a few worlds, they excluded any world featured in the prequels. I think the fact he even said "focus solely on the Original Trilogy", instead of focusing on the most favorited worlds, indicates a bias against the prequels. It wasn't like they started on them and then couldn't finish, he was like "well since we are on a short time table, cut the prequels from all plans cuz they suck."

Edited April 19th by Trever Leingod
Trever Leingod

They had lack four planets at launch. Three of which were iconic to the era they had chosen to go for, it would've been really weird if they'd had Tatooine, Endor and Hoth and then randomly just Geonosis or Kashyyk.

No it wasn't like they started prequel stuff and had to stop. It's like they started development of a brand new game (no previous game to build off of to save time) and were told "Right you have to get this out for December 2015, good luck!" and then the developers said "Shit, that's not a lot of time. Ok, what should we focus on."

Then they rightly chose to do Galactic Civil War instead of Clone Wars. It sucks but that's what happens when publishers rush games out.

I really don't believe anyone told them explicitly "no prequel era shit".

Posted April 19th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

So you think the prequels were complete crap?


I do indeed. There are some interesting....hints, I guess I'd call them, of ideas that get scratched at the surface very occasionally, but nothing with much exploration or focus to actually make them interesting. Like the idea that the Jedi were actually this kind of shitty, backwards priesthood, not too unlike real world religious orders in which priests are expected to promote peace but are not allowed to experience romantic love for some reason. But the exploration of that concept in the films is so shallow and almost accidental, as he never really dives much into that, opting instead to focus on the "prophesy"/"balance to the Force"/ham-fisted Iraq allegory stuff that was pretty bad.

Actually, that's kind of it when it comes to ideas or concepts in the prequels that I found to be frustratingly interesting (given the lack of focus it got).

Posted April 19th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

That's just on the thematic or narrative level, of course. They were complete crap if you take a step back from the "Star Wars" aspect of them and look at them as "films." Writing is awful. Acting is awful. Pacing is often terrible. Choreography is cool, but lack any real weight behind it (because most of the characters suck). The editing is ok, but goes through periods where it's not very good. Sound design and score is legitimately good, but that's about it in terms of technical filmmaking that doesn't veer off into "bad" territory.

Posted April 19th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Honestly, I think the prequels' awfulness has reached a memetic status that goes beyond their actual quality. Someone watching them for the first time now after hearing all of the bashing they get would probably not think they lived up to the hype. Don't get me wrong--I think they were bad movies. But they're bad in the sense that if I had to watch them again, I could get some enjoyment from them (mainly the score and action scenes, although there's some decent humor in there as well). They're certainly not the worst movies I've ever seen or even particularly close to those.

I'm among those who assumed Snoke and Kylo Ren were Sith. Frankly, I see little functional difference between Sith and whatever they are, at least thus far...the only real way it matters is that, as mentioned, them being Sith would render the "Chosen One" prophecy a little pointless.

I just hope this new film is something less derivative. My hope/assumption is that TFA's similarities to ANH were intended in homage/as a way to win back the fans the prequels lost, rather than being indicative of things to come. If this new film is too similar to ESB or any other Star Wars film, I may stop watching these movies.

Posted April 20th by white lancer
white lancer
 

Luke = General Snoke

Actually it's been theorized that Kylo Ren is trying to get close to General Snoke to assassinate him by pretending to be evil. Which is why he was so conflicted when he killed his dad, who he needed to kill to prove his loyalty. Which seems to have worked.

Edited April 20th by Q
Q
64 Bits of Pure Power!

Actually it's been theorized that Kylo Ren is trying to get close to General Snoke to assassinate him by pretending to be evil.


This would be so dumb.

Which is why he was so conflicted when he killed his dad, who he needed to kill to prove his loyalty. Which seems to have worked.


Eh. We see him in private moments talking to Vader's helmet. He seems pretty committed to this path he is on. The hesitation/conflict about killing his dad is just more realistic and true to the character we have seen up until that point... Also, he was alone with his Dad at that moment. Ample chance to say "Hey Dad, you need to lay low for a while so I can pretend you're dead and get close to Snoke."

Also, he already turned on the Jedi Order and (from what we've been shown so far) was the reason all of Luke's new Jedi are dead.

That is definitely one of the more unlikely theories I've heard.

I'm among those who assumed Snoke and Kylo Ren were Sith. Frankly, I see little functional difference between Sith and whatever they are, at least thus far...the only real way it matters is that, as mentioned, them being Sith would render the "Chosen One" prophecy a little pointless.


I mean they may turn around and be like "Yea we're Sith" in Ep8.

You're right though, for the purpose of bad guys it makes no difference if they are Sith or not. But for the lore it's pretty cool if they're aren't Sith because it helps show that this isn't all just about Jedi and Sith and we're not in for a repeat of the old EU where it was just Sith after Sith after Sith... It also means if anyone claiming to be a Sith were to show up at any point it'd be a more interesting plot instead of just "oh hey look another one".

Posted April 20th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

I didn't come up with the theory, just remember reading about it a while back.

Honestly I think people get too wrapped up in this stuff

Posted April 20th by Q
Q
64 Bits of Pure Power!

Yeah, I don't buy that theory about Ren at all. I'm all for fans coming up with wacky predictions, but that one's just not plausible IMO.

There's certainly some ground to be mined if they choose to go the not-Sith route. It would just need more emphasis in the future, because it's way too easy to see the red lightsaber and Force powers and assume Sith. :)

Posted April 24th by white lancer
white lancer
 

If anyone has seen Star Wars Rebels season 3 they may see something relevant to the thing going on with Luke in something Bendu said. Js. Trying not to give too much away.

Edited April 24th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

Yes I have seen Rebels season 3.

I personally don't think Bendu is relevant to anything they are doing, because I'm not sure that Disney/LucasFilm are confident enough in putting hints like that in Rebels.

It would be very cool if they have done so though.

Posted April 24th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

I really don't believe anyone told them explicitly "no prequel era shit".

I don't believe so either, but whatever that article was that I saw years ago had more indications that they definitely choosing to avoid the prequels, but as I can't find that particular article, it's little more than a suspicion. But given the hate spewing about the prequels so often, it isn't so farfetched to think.

You're right though, for the purpose of bad guys it makes no difference if they are Sith or not. But for the lore it's pretty cool if they're aren't Sith because it helps show that this isn't all just about Jedi and Sith and we're not in for a repeat of the old EU where it was just Sith after Sith after Sith... It also means if anyone claiming to be a Sith were to show up at any point it'd be a more interesting plot instead of just "oh hey look another one".

There's certainly some ground to be mined if they choose to go the not-Sith route. It would just need more emphasis in the future, because it's way too easy to see the red lightsaber and Force powers and assume Sith. :)

For the moment it's like "Meh, we're not Sith but we are going to emulate them in every way we can." In some way, the extinction of the official Sith helps fulfill the Chosen One prophecy in a way that the old EU ignored completely, which is one improvement I have seen so far from a narrative aspect.

At the same time, the fact that "It's time for the Jedi to end" may just insinuate a similar thing, that the official Jedi line is going to end, but a similar order is going to rise in its place. In which case, I don't know why Luke doesn't just change some principles and rules as he did in the EU. It seems as though as both sides are like HEY PEOPLE LET'S CHANGE OUR NAMES AND KEEP GOING AT IT.

Posted April 25th by Trever Leingod
Trever Leingod

At the moment I am leaning much more toward the "Luke is just being pessimistic" side of things. Given how closely they guard the secrets of these films it is really strange to me that they would give away such a major plot point of the Jedi ending (in both the title and the first teaser). Really feels like a red herring to me.

If that is the case though, it could backfire on them if people get too hyped for the idea of the Jedi ending only for it to not go that route.

Posted April 25th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

The one red herring I can think of for TFA was even put into the script and not just a quick trailer misdirect - giving Finn the lightsaber. It gave us the impression he was going to be the Force User, but subtle hints like Rey being bigger on the poster or the fact Finn was never shown using the Force made people suspect it was a trick (though I think Finn not using the Force was not really a hint because a trailer isn't necessarily going to show that). By the time we saw Rey hold Anakin's old lightsaber for the first time and have those flashbacks in the theater, I gather that everyone already knew the whole Finn thing was a misdirect for sure.

The line "I only know one truth" does sound like a canned saying for people that are being pessimistic and I would agree that fits Luke's current mindset, as he seemed to exile himself out of guilt for failing his new Jedi through Ben's fall to the Dark Side.

Something that really gets me is that it seems Snoke was influencing Ben before he even went to Luke, because that was why he was sent to Luke in the first place. How did Ben get subjected to Snoke's influence in the first place? Was Snoke part of the Senate like Palpatine? The way Leia talked about it, they may have noticed Ben acting dark but didn't realize it was Snoke until it was too late.

Edited April 28th by Trever Leingod
Trever Leingod

Yea I think they actually spoiled it entirely by having a poster or something where Rey was holding the lightsaber.

Something that really gets me is that it seems Snoke was influencing Ben before he even went to Luke, because that was why he was sent to Luke in the first place. How did Ben get subjected to Snoke's influence in the first place? Was Snoke part of the Senate like Palpatine?


They've intentionally just avoided Snoke entirely in the EU right now so we have no hints to work with.

He's a complete mystery, as is how exactly he got control of the First Order... They start off as remnants of the Empire that fled into the Unknown Regions rather than surrender at the Battle of Jakku, they're then joined by a bunch of systems that leave the New Republic (only a few years before Ep7 if I recall correctly).

It's be a safe guess that he was one of the Senators that left at that time... But none of the major players in Bloodline are portrayed as being anything like Snoke, and you'd assume the major players are the ones likely to hold positions of power in the First Order.

I think whatever he did, was via the Force. Probably over long distance because it's unlikely he ever got very close to Ben. There is an implication in Ep7 that Ben/Kylo has seen/spoken to Darth Vader, so it is possible that Snoke did something to make him think he was seeing/talking to Vader and then communicated with him via the Force... Suggesting that he could give him the same power as what Vader had.

What's really odd is how familiar Han and Leia are with Snoke. It seems whatever happens between the novel Bloodline, and Ep7, probably holds most of the answers to this mystery.

Posted April 28th by Redack
Redack
Altname for Moonray

I think whatever he did, was via the Force. Probably over long distance because it's unlikely he ever got very close to Ben. There is an implication in Ep7 that Ben/Kylo has seen/spoken to Darth Vader, so it is possible that Snoke did something to make him think he was seeing/talking to Vader and then communicated with him via the Force... Suggesting that he could give him the same power as what Vader had.

What's really odd is how familiar Han and Leia are with Snoke. It seems whatever happens between the novel Bloodline, and Ep7, probably holds most of the answers to this mystery.

That second half is what me think there might have been direct communication between Ben and Snoke, instead of talking to him through distance. If he was really able to corrupt Ben so much through long distance tricks, that makes Snoke a good deal more impressive than Palpatine, who slowly corrupted Anakin as a "friend" through the years.

Posted April 29th by Trever Leingod
Trever Leingod
Reply to: Star Wars: The Last Jedi Trailer

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