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Moderated by : Dito


Most Evil/Menacing Character in Western Animation
Posted: Posted March 19th by mariomguy

Which character from western animated series is the most menacing?

There are 16 Replies

Shredder, the old '90s one. Metal as fuck.

Posted March 19th by nullfather
nullfather

From the list, I'd select Slade.

Not from the list, I'd choose Sid from Toy Story.

Posted March 19th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

In terms of my favorite, it's hard to choose between Him and Sideshow Bob...

Posted March 19th by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Technically speaking, Shredder in the new TMNT was the only character to actually kill a major protagonist onscreen in their respective series, but this was reversed through the magic of time travel. Runner up goes to Zaheer for taking out the title character for the end of one season and severely debilitating them throughout the next.

But the question goes deeper than that: who is the most menacing, and the most threatening? Him from the Powerpuff Girls created a monstrous apocalyptic future making everyone in their hometown attack them, and remains the only villain the Girls are actually afraid of. He has god-like powers, speaks with the voice of the legion, and is inferred to be the incarnation of the Devil himself. Slade has a similar relationship with the Titans as he wages his psychological war against them, making Terra betray them, and in one episode forcing Robin to do his will or else eliminate the team with nanobots. He is sly and elusive, using robots in his place so the team can never truly defeat him.

Then there's just the awful things these characters do: Mr. Strickler dates the protagonist's mother and uses a binding spell so any pain inflicted on him would be felt by the hero's mother. Viggo Grimborn constructs gambit after gambit preventing Hiccup's team from interrupting his dragon trading business, and is not above sinking trade ships and inciting famine on the heroes' families to exact revenge. In one of his schemes, he infects one of the protagonists with the plague and intends to use the disease as a means of capitalizing on the medicine produced naturally from a very rare dragon. Hiccup's greatest strength prior to meeting Viggo was his excellent leadership and planning, but after Viggo outsmarted him on many occasions Hiccup became overwhelmed.

Angelica Pickles... anyone who makes a hobby out of tormenting babies deserves to be on the list. She takes great joy out of making the rugrat's lives miserable, and of course the children's imagination blows everything way out of proportion. Sideshow Bob tried to frame Krusty the Clown for a robbery, but when Bart proved Bob was actually responsible, Bob spent the rest of his life trying to kill Bart. That this is actually played straight in the show is astonishing.

And then there's the crowd favorite... Azula. Daughter of Fire Lord Ozai, Sister of Prince Zuko, the most technically intimidating of any individual character in the show. She turned the Dai Lee against the Earth King AND Long Feng with her words (and threats) alone. She struck the Avatar with lightning while in the Avatar state, the first in the series to nearly end the spirit line. To get Ty Lee to join her quest and give up circus acrobatics, she had the ringmaster set the net on fire. Calculated in her decisions, precise in her offense, psychotic in her rage, she is as manipulative and cunning as they come and stops at nothing to win. And she is a firebending prodigy.

...I will need to sleep on this decision...

Edited March 19th by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up

On this list Azula. But Ozai beats her.

Posted March 19th by Red Leaf
Red Leaf

I didn't know whether to include Azula or Ozai. Technically Ozai is the grand leader... but we don't get to see him much. Just one time in the show's finale he's seen single-handedly scorching the Earth in flames. Before then, all we knew is he burned and banished his own son and continued to lead the Fire Nation's hundred-year-war. But we see Azula actually do important things throughout the second and third season.

Similarly, Zaheer and Tarrlock are comparable in Korra. But since Tarrlock was not shown to be a menace for most of the show, Zaheer takes the cake.

Posted March 19th by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up

Sideshow Bob is the only one that terrified me as a kid. The others are maybe good villains, but they don't have that .

Posted March 19th by Xhin
Xhin
Rise from ashes

"Most menacing/evil" does not necessarily mean "most successful." Unalaq and Vatuu were quite possibly the most successful. On this list Shredder and Zaheer were the most successful. But the winner of the most menacing, the most evil character, has got to be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Viggo Grimborn.

SPOILERS BELOW:

The character was first introduced as a gamer, a perfectly elusive mastermind who controls the pieces from behind the shadows. He was able to successfully out-gambit all of his opponents without mercy. His first act was to let Heather know about her traitorous attempt to stall their operations: he did this by nearly pushing her off a cliff to show how much he hates traitors, and scaring her into giving information about where to find a powerful dragon to use as a weapon (which was used against her friends). He owns a massive dragon-hunting business, and his ultimate goal is to capture and sell every dragon he can get his hands on for profit. Among some of the things he's done: spread the plague in order to sell a commodity from an extremely rare dragon, use a massive dragon to kill traders, destroy their ships, and block trade routes to Berk, Hiccup's hometown. He stole a lava-eating dragon from an island that depended on it for survival, and then attempted to use it to blow up the hero's outpost at Dragon's Edge. He put a bounty on Hiccup's head, and had some of the world's most fearsome bounty hunters after him. And in his final moments of glory, he teamed up with Hiccup to take down his brother after being double-crossed by him. He did this by making another massive dragon swallow his brother and his entire army whole.

I have not seen Gargoyles or David Xantos, but my best guess is Viggo was designed as the apotheosis of all cunning, manipulative characters. No villain has ever planned their success better than Viggo, nor was any villain willing to risk everything they had to continue their tirade. While he's personally not much of a fighter (he doesn't fight anyone himself) and his forces are not the largest, his financial prowess combined with his incredible scheming allows everyone to be a pawn in his hands. He plays to everyone's motivations, yielding the most desired outcomes for himself, and his predictions are often correct. Most of his plans are designed as gambits where no matter what the heroes can be expected to do the outcome will always result in at least a partial victory for himself.

Of all the villains I have ever witnessed, Viggo has easily surpassed them all. No, he's not the most powerful villain on this list, but he does show just how far a great mind and great power in a horrible person can actually go. Viggo has reached the ceiling of what exactly an evil person can do: disrupt people's lives, capitalize on the death of innocent victims, seize control over everyone and everything he wants, killing his friends and family and attempting to kill entire villages as well, destroy trust and create conflicts where there needn't be any, and completely cleanse the Earth of a particular species. There is nothing evil that anyone can do in the real world that Viggo Grimborn hasn't actually done as part of his schemes (both accomplished and attempted, at least as a corollary) in two seasons of Dragon's Edge. And the more you think about his plans, the more brilliant you will find them.

Because no other villain I've ever seen was actually better at plotting gambits so mercilessly and effectively, I have to cast my vote for Viggo Grimborn.

Posted March 19th by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up

>On this list Shredder and Zaheer were the most successful. But the winner of the most menacing, the most evil character, has got to be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Viggo Grimborn.

I still have to go for Shredder because he was literally the embodiment of metal.

Posted March 19th by nullfather
nullfather



Posted March 19th by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up

>Zaheer

>evil and menacing because he's an almost anarchist and creates chaos

I mean why though? I mean, I could argue about the previous villains in Legend of Korra alone, but I'll just stick to what should be particularly obvious for now. Kuvira Was far more menacing and already seemed to impact far more people than Zaheer. She was also literally trying to create something very similar to fascism if not outright organized terrorism. Might as well be that from how she looked at and treated the spirits or whatever (it's been a while since I watched it).

And even then, Zaheer was not fully like batshit or anything, even he realized the threat that Kuvira posed.

I mean, I can't say I know enough to pick the most evil or menacing, but I don't see why Zaheer is on there but Kuvira isn't.

I mean, you could argue that Kuvira had good intentions, but you could argue that of pretty much any villain certainly including Zaheer who still had understandable motivations. You could argue that her extremism is a result of the "mess" Zaheer made, but you then you could also argue that she was simply taking advantage of it to do what she felt was right or needed, just like Zaheer thought what he was doing was right or ultimately for the best.

I mean, evil I guess is arguable. But Kuvira definitely seemed more menacing. Zaheer was like one smart guy with a couple of others who pulled off some surprising feats simply due to their their power, skills, and resourcefulness. But that could inevitably only go so far. Kuvira was more menacing simply because of how many people followed her, and how she used and abused all of these things and people for her endgoals. Her usage of super weapons. And so on. I just don't see how you could think she wasn't more menacing.

Edited March 19th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

Kuriva went into towns, offered food and supplies in exchange for joining the empire, spreading Zaofu's knowledge and metal arts into the world. She fought only when encountered by resistance. The power vacuum created as a result of the dead queen and no heir to the throne upgraded Kuriva to a temporary leader, but she was so successful she refuse to relinquish her power to the Prince. The problem with Kuriva is when she met enough resistance she would destroy cities and people that stood in her way, a practice made worse by the super weapon. Her negligence with the spirits was more of ignorance than intention.

But again, Korra's villains were so good I was tempted to just name them all. But in the end Kuriva realized she did the wrong thing (TOOK LONG ENOUGH) and turned herself in. And initially what she was doing was quite remarkable. Zaheer, on the other hand, continued to believe that everything he did was right and proper. Immediately after killing the Earth Queen there were riots all over Ba Sing Se. Just like he wanted. And Kuriva never actually killed anybody until the final episodes when the weapon was complete. Zaheer successfully poisoned the Avatar in the Avatar state, and almost eliminated her for life and all future lives as well. Kuriva successfully conquered the Earth Kingdom, but did not participate in regicide. If you recall Korra, you would've known that Korra could easily take Kuriva out, if she was at full strength. The Red Lotus, headed by Zaheer, battled Korra at full strength and almost killed her, but definitely succeeded in putting her out of commission for a full season.

Perhaps this makes the world of a difference: Korra never feared Kuriva, even when she hadn't half the strength of her former self, she still battled Kuriva without hesitation. But she ALWAYS feared Zaheer, even after his imprisonment and with chains.

Posted March 19th by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up

You kids arguing about your Chinese cartoons is really putting a shit on my Shredder hype right now.

Posted March 19th by nullfather
nullfather

Offering food and shit for their their essential slavery does not excuse what she's doing though. Zaheer didn't seem to want to hurt people who wouldn't stand against him either, in fact he seemed to want quite the opposite. The only reason Kuriva did this is to force them to be on her side, and because she had the resources to do so unlike Zaheer. Neither seemed to want to hurt innocent people as long as they didn't stand in their way, so on this front they seem to be pretty equal if nothing else.

She fought only when encountered by resistance.

Right... because when it came down to the real shit, she could just threaten to wipe every single person out if they don't surrender, and had a weapon more than capable of backing that up. Zaheer had no such thing.

The power vacuum created as a result of the dead queen and no heir to the throne upgraded Kuriva to a temporary leader

A queen who seemed to be a terrible ruler all around, and really the people were probably better off without her until she stepped up.

Her negligence with the spirits was more of ignorance than intention.

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Personally though, it seemed like even if she wasn't "ignorant" of it, I think she would have done the same thing as she already seemed to be becoming very ends justify the meansy.

But again, Korra's villains were so good I was tempted to just name them all.

Agree despite it being popular apparently to just say the whole series was terrible now (I mean I certainly have my complaints no doubt, but it wasn't that bad overall.)

But in the end Kuriva realized she did the wrong thing (TOOK LONG ENOUGH) and turned herself in.

Yes. This part actually annoyed me because it didn't seem like something that should happen from a storytelling standpoint, or just. Like.. she already came so far, why stop there? Why not move forward and keep doing that until she had the power to make things "right"? Honestly it also seemed like she just realized she essentially lost. A character like her, despite her past seemed unfitting to suddenly turn around like that.

But anyway... as for the comparison with Zaheer here, the thing is to me it seems like she did so much worse than Zaheer ultimately that it doesn't even excuse it. Plus, we're talking about her as a villain are we not? And as a villain she still seemed worse. But even if you want to go that direction, Zaheer still seemed like he was focused. Like since when did he effect so many people DIRECTLY? Since when did he not try to keep it as minimal as possible? He wanted to create a better world like she did and neither were necessarily wrong. I personally would have loved to at least see what would happen to the world if Zaheer got his way. I suppose it depends on how you look at it, but as a villain Kuriva still seems more menacing.

And initially what she was doing was quite remarkable.

Remarkable in a very fearsome sense though.

Zaheer, on the other hand, continued to believe that everything he did was right and proper. Immediately after killing the Earth Queen there were riots all over Ba Sing Se. Just like he wanted.

Not necessarily wrong. And as I said, the queen was fucking terrible and there was pretty much no other way to deal with that. Riots would be inevitable regardless, but I honestly think ultimately he did the people a favor and had good intentions for it. Course, it's not the most ideal way of doing things, but for what he was doing, that was also remarkable. And despite it obviously being kind of fucked up how he did it, that was the point it REALLY sinked in that he was easily my favorite villain of the series. He even made sure he explained himself before doing her in. And it was a powerful explanation! But ya, that's unrelated.

And Kuriva never actually killed anybody until the final episodes when the weapon was complete.

Again though, this is only because she could threaten and bribe people to get her way. Zaheer didn't really ever have that option on the table, and the fact that she still did later pretty much puts them at least on equal terms in my eyes.

Zaheer successfully poisoned the Avatar in the Avatar state, and almost eliminated her for life and all future lives as well.

He believed that was also necessary for specific reasons, but ya. That's one person. And technically, it's not actually known if the avatar is always needed. It's a running thing in the series that the avatar is destined to save everyone, but do they really have to be the ones every time?

Kuriva successfully conquered the Earth Kingdom, but did not participate in regicide.

But I mean, that queen was pretty shit...

If you recall Korra, you would've known that Korra could easily take Kuriva out, if she was at full strength. The Red Lotus, headed by Zaheer, battled Korra at full strength and almost killed her, but definitely succeeded in putting her out of commission for a full season.

I guess it depends on if you're looking at it from like... how important you think the avatar is ultimately. But Zaheer couldn't do all of what Kuriva did later on. Again, Korra was just one person. And not even necessarily super powerful just because she's the avatar.

Perhaps this makes the world of a difference: Korra never feared Kuriva, even when she hadn't half the strength of her former self, she still battled Kuriva without hesitation. But she ALWAYS feared Zaheer, even after his imprisonment and with chains.

Hmm. Personally I feel like what Korra fears, and what is generally more menacing are two different things though. Zaheer was only a threat to Korra, and really he couldn't have possibly been a threat to the same general level that was Kuriva was. So to me, that seems like a moot point. Plus Zaheer was actively seeking her out anyway.

Edited March 19th by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

Offering food and shit for their their essential slavery does not excuse what she's doing though.

It wasn't slavery, but a Roman-esque conquering situation.

Zaheer didn't seem to want to hurt people who wouldn't stand against him either

Um, yes he did. He had a political philosophy against governments, and anyone who stood in his way was opposed to the cause. It just looks like he sided with people because of what he did at Ba Sing Se. Try explaining to him the power of good governments and he will still say it would only open the doors to abuse.

The only reason Kuriva did this is to force them to be on her side, and because she had the resources to do so unlike Zaheer. Neither seemed to want to hurt innocent people as long as they didn't stand in their way, so on this front they seem to be pretty equal if nothing else.

Kuriva was an excellent fighter, and her army was incredible, but the Red Lotus was arguably even greater. Again, of all the villains on the show, Zaheer was the one Korra feared the most. Amon only removed her bending temporarily. Unalaq/Vatuu destroyed her past lives, but she was still OK. But it was Zaheer who nearly ended the Avatar line period. The worst Kuriva did was fire a laser cannon. But at times I was thinking rule under Kuriva might be much, much better than under Hou-Ting.

Yes. This part actually annoyed me because it didn't seem like something that should happen from a storytelling standpoint, or just. Like.. she already came so far, why stop there?

From what I remember, Korra showed her how much she angered the spirits by using their power to destroy cities. At that point she realized she was no longer worthy of being a ruler anyways, and someone else had to clean up the mess. Then when Korra saved her from the cannon, she realized no matter what Kuriva would never be able to stop the Avatar from getting in the way of whatever plans she would have come up with. Her final line in the series was about Korra being the most powerful person she had ever seen.

He believed that was also necessary for specific reasons, but ya. That's one person. And technically, it's not actually known if the avatar is always needed. It's a running thing in the series that the avatar is destined to save everyone, but do they really have to be the ones every time?

Actually, it's a running thing in the series that Avatars do whatever the heck they want. Kuruk lived in politically peaceful times and did not have to do much. But because of their powers and connection with Raava, they always act as a bridge between men and spirits of all kinds. The Avatar state makes the Avatar the most powerful individual, not just with physical strength, but with intelligence as well. And because of the Avatar's status in society, they have access to political power that few men ever dream of having. So if the Avatar cannot save people, then people certainly won't be able to save themselves. But outside the Avatar state, the Avatar is just a powerful bender.

I guess it depends on if you're looking at it from like... how important you think the avatar is ultimately. But Zaheer couldn't do all of what Kuriva did later on. Again, Korra was just one person. And not even necessarily super powerful just because she's the avatar.

The Avatar's lived several thousand lifetimes. In the Avatar state the Avatar becomes the sum of all those lifetimes, and Raava, with everything included: power, skill, and intelligence of some of the most incredible people on Earth. There is literally no other being in the universe more powerful than the Avatar. Not everyone respects the position as much as they should (spirits especially dismiss the Avatar as just another human that lives on Earth), but it goes without saying that the Avatar can do anything. Take bending away, give bending back to people, bend everything... the Avatar historically cleared cities, wiped out entire armies, and moved continents by his/herself. And Zaheer almost ended the entire line by poisoning Korra in the Avatar state. That was his primary mission.

Hmm. Personally I feel like what Korra fears, and what is generally more menacing are two different things though. Zaheer was only a threat to Korra, and really he couldn't have possibly been a threat to the same general level that was Kuriva was. So to me, that seems like a moot point. Plus Zaheer was actively seeking her out anyway.

The world without an avatar would have no balance. Zaheer wanted a world of nothing but chaos. Kuriva just wanted to recombine the broken Earth empire and spread Zaofu's technology and progressive philosophies (and food) which ultimately would've been a good thing if she wasn't such an ass about it. Remember, the robbers were not affiliated with her. Kuriva was serious about bringing peace and security. She was just stubborn. There was greatness in her benevolent dictatorship, but there was nothing good about what Zaheer wanted to do. You can chant forever for the fall of Ba Sing Se, but did people really live better lives afterwards when the political vacuum created everything that made Kuriva menacing? If the Earth empire bowed to Kuriva, they would have better technology and people would live better lives. If the empire fell to Zaheer, there would be death and riots everywhere constantly. Pirates would own the joint.

Posted March 21st by mariomguy
mariomguy
What up, 1-up

Where's the Joker?

Posted May 31st by -Riku-
-Riku-
 
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