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@Xhin - NIFE stuff
Posted: Posted February 28th
Edited February 28th by Moonray

Not sure if you had chance to fix the "closing game unstickies previous game" thing so if not that's still on the list.

Also I am fully aware some of the following may just be me not knowing what I am doing properly but here are my requests/bugs/feedback based on trying to set a game up right now :)

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First request, could you change the CP link to just go here?
http://gtx0.com/engines/Adventure/Host/Main.php?gameid=
Right now it goes gameid=2 which is the previous test game.

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Not sure what announcements do? Is this for when it'll be hooked up to the announcements up top, the option for two colours seems to suggest it might be?

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Changing round has bugs.

Initially I changed the round to 1 manually, this is when the issue started. When I clicked next round, the round in the CP went to 2 but the main thread stayed on 1. Manually changing it to try and fix didn't work and this has resulted in the main thread displaying the previous round' number every round.

Current round was 7 but in the main thread it claims to be 6, if I click next round

In replies it shows the correct round for when the reply was posted.

If I manually change the round to 7 then the main thread updated to be round 7, but then when I clicked next round. The number in the main thread stayed on 7.

I'm wondering if there's really any need for a host to have the ability to manually change it, since the "next round" button does exactly what is needed. So perhaps remove the manual option and that'd probably avoid this happening.

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Are all the submit buttons in each CP really necessary? Would everything still function if you just had one submit button at the bottom of each panel? If it would be a lot of work to just have one button then don't bother as it's not a major thing, just would look tidier if there was only one button :P

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The apostrophe causes a \ to get added into a "Character name".

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Small thing but on the "add many characters" could you add a bit of flavour text that just explains each new one should be on a new line. Just because some boxes you want it separated by commas but this box wants a new line.

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In the character CP. On the character's table, you you make the Room column be a drop down box so that mass moving characters is an easy process? As it stands now to set a game up I have to go into each character one by one and set their room, whereas if there was a drop down box I could just drop the box, set the room for each one really quick and hit submit.

I know there is an option like this in the rooms CP but I like my redundancy. Typically when I set up a game I will create all the rooms first, and then do the characters players (because you never know how many you will have until close to starting). So I am more likely to need the option in the character's CP :)

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ALL characters are in [Wild Pig Islands 3: Tomba Arrives - Forest of Despair] but the post is not showing them as being there?

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By default characters are created with 0 actions and this is literally what they get. Should it not read what is in advanced settings and create them with those settings?

Had to manually edit a few of the characters to have 3 actions and such (so if you look at it now, that's why they have it set).



settingsOptions
There are 39 Replies

(Accidentally hit post so there's still more to come)

Posted February 28th by Moonray
Moonray
 

When take random item is turned on, could you have it so that the default take from room hides?

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I have no idea how the 3 minion/follower types work.

When you discussed them you talked about some level of control but I have no level of control over any of them? Are they just unfinished or am I missing something?

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Could you explain the three options for properties? One of them doesn't auto add, three of them do auto-add. All three are removable?

Referring to "Requirement for Property" dropdown box.

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For the Thread Templates could you also add a code that lists off all the rooms AND links to the relevant thread.

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In the forum's announcement area (or whatever that bit below the forum title but above the posts is called these days) could you add links to profile, journal and the current thread the player is in. I believe we had something along these lines on the old forum.

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I am not sure I really like how Stealth works. We can give it a go but I would rather a system where:

Stealth recovers automatically by X amount each round IF no stealth action is made.

Little checkbox so that people can determine when they make a sneak action...

The current system seems to work as follows:

"hide" to recover stealth (except you're not hiding you're just posting openly that you regaining stealth).

Then when you hit the threshold you autostealth.

The current way of it working just isn't very good IMO.

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Please hide number of replies from posts so that you can't tell if someone has been in the room before you.

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Host cannot put in the results of manual actions... Journal claims to be waiting for response from host, but the actions CP never gives the host the ability to put anything in.



Posted February 28th by Moonray
Moonray
 

Also threads still don't auto sticky/unsticky when you use an auto-action to move between them during a round.

Posted February 28th by Moonray
Moonray
 

I'll get to all of these, but before I do, a few comments (so you can probably respond to them while I'm working):

First request, could you change the CP link to just go here?

No, because Ghowilo and I are simultaneously testing the engine with different games. Just uh, bookmark this link:
http://www.gtx0.com/engines/Adventure/Host/Main.php?gameid=6
Or if you want, I could make a temporary gtx0.com/moonhost link that redirects there.

Honestly I agree there needs to be a better system for the main CP/the hosting link. I'll address that too.

I'm wondering if there's really any need for a host to have the ability to manually change it, since the "next round" button does exactly what is needed. So perhaps remove the manual option and that'd probably avoid this happening.

Nah, the next round button is just a shortcut to manually changing the round to the next one. There's probably not a need for it, but you never know. Best idea is to move it to the bottom of the panel so the host doesn't get distracted when they're changing rounds.

Are all the submit buttons in each CP really necessary?

Way too much extra work. Also sometimes two functions can interfere with each other horribly.

On the character's table, you you make the Room column be a drop down box so that mass moving characters is an easy process?

Oops I thought I did that when I did it for items. Will fix.

When you discussed them you talked about some level of control but I have no level of control over any of them?

That feature is unfinished. I'll work on it today.

In the forum's announcement area (or whatever that bit below the forum title but above the posts is called these days) could you add links to profile, journal and the current thread the player is in.

The forum view is actually obsolete -- players should instead go to their User NIFE CP and use that as their starting point (also the sitewide announcement would link to that instead of the forum). If they're in a post, their playerbox shows above their actions area which is also way more convenient.

The current way of it working just isn't very good IMO.

People seemed to like it when I proposed it last year:
http://gtx0.com/view.php?post=99057
I'd try it how it is, and we can re-evaluate after a test game.

I can at least make it so that hiding actions are themselves stealthed, if that helps.

Continued....

Edited February 28th by Xhin
Xhin
 

Host cannot put in the results of manual actions... Journal claims to be waiting for response from host, but the actions CP never gives the host the ability to put anything in.

Click a round (the current one is the blue square) and you see the place where you can do that (and compare players). I'll put an h2 with "Choose Round to edit Manual Actions" for clarity.

Posted February 28th by Xhin
Xhin
 

Could you explain the three options for properties? One of them doesn't auto add, three of them do auto-add. All three are removable?

Oops, looks like that's another unfinished feature. How it *should* work:

  • "Optional" is just a normal property

  • "When new entities are created" means that, for example, if you have a character property that has that, then every time you create a new character it has that property auto-assigned to it.

    So depending on what kind of game you're setting up, you might want to have "Role" and "Team" and "Health" properties, and set those up first and all with that option. Then you can create a bunch of characters/make a bunch of player characters without having to individually assign each of them those properties afterwards.

    Then you can go to say, the "team" property and assign all the characters their value in bulk.

  • The mandatory option is like that, but you also can't remove the property from a character for any reason. Just a hosting safety thing.

  • Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    The second option doesn't apply to already existing characters, but maybe it should?

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Long-term I'd like to have each separate adventure game type in its own separate "format" and import properties, maybe property values, rooms, or whatever else you want between games to speed up initial game hosting tasks. Each format is also assigned its own unique forum, so instead of having a single "adventure" forum, you have one for aliens, one for braaaains, one for "lords of havoc", maybe one for misc games that you can move to their own format if they're popular.

    That way when you have a game of aliens the forum header and documents will show information about the aliens game specifically instead of adventure as a whole. And players can view older aliens games for useful strategies or whatever without having to skip a bunch of different formats in the forum view.

    NIFE isn't really a game engine, it's an engine for creating game engines , which can run simultaneously and separate from one another. :)

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    No, because Ghowilo and I are simultaneously testing the engine with different games. Just uh, bookmark this link:


    But the link I gave you goes to a page where you can see ALL the games currently active, therefore it doesn't matter who is hosting what it goes to the right place for everyone.

    The forum view is actually obsolete -- players should instead go to their User NIFE CP and use that as their starting point (also the sitewide announcement would link to that instead of the forum). If they're in a post, their playerbox shows above their actions area which is also way more convenient.


    Except for people who go to the forum and want to see exactly what just happened last round. But whatevs.

    People seemed to like it when I proposed it last year:


    Growlithe isn't a people he's a pokemon.

    Also three people isn't exactly enough for proof of a good thing imo and they all admit they don't fully understand what you're describing.

    But also the current system is not the one described in that post. What you don't mention in that post is the moment a person hits the threshold they are automatically doing a stealth action, I can guarantee you now people will not like that. They will want to be able to build up stealth and then utilise it. I am ok with most of the current system but the automatic stealth is the bit I do not agree with at all ever no way (although I personally don't like the whole make a post to build up stealth because a person VISIBLY saying -hides- makes no sense... because you're not hiding, you're just broadcasting to everyone that you want to hide).

    you have one for aliens


    Speaking of which, bit weird how you named the Aliens game as "Aliens and Robots" so all subgames have to go through that.

    NIFE isn't really a game engine, it's an engine for creating game engines , which can run simultaneously and separate from one another. :)


    Fewer sales pitches and more fixing please.

    Edited February 28th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    But the link I gave you goes to a page where you can see ALL the games currently active, therefore it doesn't matter who is hosting what it goes to the right place for everyone.

    Oh yeah true, that needs to be fixed.

    Except for people who go to the forum and want to see exactly what just happened last round. But whatevs.

    Except they don't go to the forum, they go to a specific post (which has their playerbox at the bottom), or they're getting to the posts they can see through here:



    I guess let's evaluate a test game and see if the players still want to go to the forum for some reason, and if so, I'll add your requests there :)

    What you don't mention in that post is the moment a person hits the threshold they are automatically doing a stealth action, I can guarantee you now people will not like that. They will want to be able to build up stealth and then utilise it. I am ok with most of the current system but the automatic stealth is the bit I do not agree with at all ever no way (although I personally don't like the whole make a post to build up stealth because a person VISIBLY saying -hides- makes no sense... because you're not hiding, you're just broadcasting to everyone that you want to hide).

    Okay, that makes more sense. Yeah I'll do the following:

  • Make it so that a character has to click a box to sneak the entirety of whatever they're doing and it's optional. Not doing it doesn't decrease sneak at all, but also doesn't hide the post.

  • Add a "Recovery Stealth" option that recovers some amount of stealth automatically each round (global or based on the specific character).

  • Make sure that "recover stealth" actions are always themselves stealthed.

    Speaking of which, bit weird how you named the Aliens game as "Aliens and Robots" so all subgames have to go through that.

    All of the formats right now are test formats sooo nothing really official there :P When the engine's ready I'll go for a clean start (aside from Ghowilo's format).

    Fewer sales pitches and more fixing please.

    It's not a sales pitch, it's kind of essential to understanding NIFE and why, for example, half the things you request get added as options rather than changing the engine in general.

  • Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Not sure what announcements do? Is this for when it'll be hooked up to the announcements up top, the option for two colours seems to suggest it might be?

    This isn't done yet and honestly, since the site announcements might be on another system in a couple days I'll hold off on it.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Oh yeah true, that needs to be fixed.


    Why fix it :(

    Okay, that makes more sense. Yeah I'll do the following:

    Make it so that a character has to click a box to sneak the entirety of whatever they're doing and it's optional. Not doing it doesn't decrease sneak at all, but also doesn't hide the post.

    Add a "Recovery Stealth" option that recovers some amount of stealth automatically each round (global or based on the specific character).

    Make sure that "recover stealth" actions are always themselves stealthed.


    That sounds a lot better.

    It's not a sales pitch, it's kind of essential to understanding NIFE and why, for example, half the things you request get added as options rather than changing the engine in general.


    I was only joking...

    Posted February 28th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    Why fix it :(

    What?

    Also I did fix it:



  • Only shows active games you're hosting now.

    I also got my checklist done and I'll start hitting all of these fixes (maybe saving the lock/unlock/sticky thing for last because it's a bit complicated).

  • Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    You could've adjusted the CP Link link to go to that page while you were at it!

    Edited February 28th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    Round issues are fixed:



    I also moved the "change round" thing to the bottom of the panel.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    You could've adjusted the CP Link link to go to that page while you were at it!

    That doesn't work because there are multiple games running simultaneously. You have to be able to select a game or NIFE ceases to be an engine for creating game engines and instead becomes a game engine.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    I really don't understand your counter argument. If the link I provided (with no game ID on the end) will take you to a page that only shows games you are hosting and lets you click on it (AKA SELECT IT) then how is that a problem?

    Posted February 28th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    And surely it's better than a link that goes to the wrong game?

    Posted February 28th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    Unrelated to anything, but I added a "game avatar" thing to help distinguish games you're hosting from one another (and also their panels).

    If the link I provided (with no game ID on the end) will take you to a page that only shows games you are hosting and lets you click on it (AKA SELECT IT) then how is that a problem?

    That's what it does now. I'm not sure what you're asking then?

    I see this:



    You see what I showed you, except with the pig logo.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Maybe try clearing your cache or something?

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    I am asking for the same thing that I was asking for at the start. There's nothing with with my cache you just haven't done it. For the link on the forum, the same link the reads: "CP Link" to go to the url I gave you.

    All you have to do, is go into it and take the 2 off of the end and then it will go exactly where I want it to go...

    Posted February 28th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    I am asking for the same thing that I was asking for at the start. There's nothing with with my cache you just haven't done it. For the link on the forum, the same link the reads: "CP Link" to go to the url I gave you.

    Ohhh okay, that makes more sense. I forgot that that was there.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Okay, the "CP Link" now goes to the panel for the active game in the forum, and also says the name of the game.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    The apostrophe glitch is fixed, so anywhere you see a backslash, get rid of it -- I fixed all the character names, but there are way too many database tables and way too many database columns to fix everything.

    If you see any more apostrophe glitches anywhere, let me know and I can fix them easily. I hit all the Hosting Control panels at least though.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Small thing but on the "add many characters" could you add a bit of flavour text that just explains each new one should be on a new line. Just because some boxes you want it separated by commas but this box wants a new line.

    I added a little help box and example above all areas where you "add many".

    Edited February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     



  • Characters can have their rooms mass-assigned now on the characters screen.

  • Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    ALL characters are in [Wild Pig Islands 3: Tomba Arrives - Forest of Despair] but the post is not showing them as being there?


    Okay, this is actually two simultaneous problems.

    Problem 1

    The first problem is my fault, and that's that the game currently has no templates so the engine should load the default templates (which it does now).

    This fix should also fix Subrooms/Exits/Items Here.

    Problem 2

    The second problem is that only Moonray is showing up. This is because the engine thinks everyone has a stealth of 0 and a stealth threshhold of 0, meaning that everyone is continuously stealthed.

    If you create a new character, you'll see that they're showing up correctly... so the problem must be with the "Add Many Characters" script, which is actually my fault and I'll look into.

    But do definitely keep in mind that characters will only show up in the room if their stealth is less than their stealth threshhold.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Okay that has also been fixed.

    I also deleted your Minion2,Minion3 character (because I'm assuming that was unintentional).

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    By default characters are created with 0 actions and this is literally what they get. Should it not read what is in advanced settings and create them with those settings?

    This was a problem exclusively with batch-adding characters and has been fixed. I also looked at rooms/items/itemcats but there don't seem to be anything there that would cause similar issues with their batch add feature.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    When take random item is turned on, could you have it so that the default take from room hides?

    Fixed.

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Except I didn't batch add yours or Dooku's characters. The only ones I did via batch were the minion ones.

    Edited February 28th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    For the Thread Templates could you also add a code that lists off all the rooms AND links to the relevant thread.

    Also fixed:

    Nevermind, IMGUR appears to be down :(

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Except I didn't batch add yours or Dooku's characters. The only ones I did via batch were the minion ones.

    Then it must be because you didn't have any settings set yet -- this has also been fixed fortunately.


    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Please hide number of replies from posts so that you can't tell if someone has been in the room before you.

    Fixed, it shows a question mark regardless if there are replies from this round or not (or even if there are replies at all or not).

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Okay, that's it for the easy/medium fixes.

    Medium-hard fixes remaining:

  • Sticky/Lock issues when switching active games

  • Move round debug to edit/report area (or maybe disable it entirely)

  • Recover stealth actions are themselves stealthed

  • "Make these actions sneaked" system

  • Heal stealth in between rounds

    Harder tasks

  • Property auto-set to new characters/items/rooms

  • Minions/Followers system

  • Edited February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    @Moonray: do you want the amount of stealth increased between rounds to just be the amount they gain with stealth recovery?

    And if so, it should only recover that if they haven't themselves made a stealth recovery action, right?

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    Yes and yes.

    Posted February 28th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    Also minion and property stuff isn't essential for running a test game so if they're too difficult to get done quickly then don't worry.

    Posted February 28th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    All right, back from my little break. I should be able to get everything but those two things you just said done :)

    Posted February 28th by Xhin
    Xhin
     
    Reply to: @Xhin - NIFE stuff

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