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09/11/2001 WE REMEMBER

"Fear is the foundation of most governments." - John Adams

"Despite the constant negative press covfefe" - Donald Trump


https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/adl-report-white-supremacist-murders-more-than-doubled-in-2017
Surely an issue that should be addressed right?

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There are 30 Replies

Your Jewish ADL site claimed 18 or 34 "extremist murders" of 2017 were attributed to "white supremacist".

The jewish "ADL report" did not list these 18 murders (very weird.) I had to look elsewhere to find them.

I found huffington post, a jewish owned far left site known for using racist slurs against non jews, to find any further elaboration.

At the end of the rally, James Alex Fields Jr., a member of the far-right extremist group Vanguard America, allegedly drove his car into a crowd of protesters, injuring 19 people and killing 32-year-old Heather Heyer.

This one won't count when Fields gets his charges dropped.

Earlier that year in May, a right-wing extremist named Jeremy Christian allegedly stabbed two men to death aboard a train in Portland, Oregon, as they tried to stop Christian from harassing two teenage girls, one of whom was black and one of whom wore hijab.

"as they tried to stop" How did they try to stop? Seems like there is more to this story.

3.

Also in May, a University of Maryland student named Sean Urbanski, who belonged to a bigoted Facebook group called “Alt-Reich Nation,” fatally stabbed Richard W. Collins III, an African-American student at Bowie State University. A prosecutor later stated that there was “lots of digital evidence” proving that the murder was racially motivated.

4.

In March, a white supremacist from Maryland named James Harris Jackson, who frequented the alt-right website The Daily Stormer, traveled to New York to kill black men. Using a sword, he fatally stabbed a 66-year-old black man named Timothy Caughman in midtown Manhattan. He then turned himself into police.

5. Why would he "travel to New York" to kill black men? Maryland is like half black. Weird.

And in December of last year, two young white supremacists on opposite sides of the country allegedly committed double homicides. In Virginia, 17-year-old Nicholas Giampa, who’d grown enamored with a neo-Nazi group called Atomwaffen Division, killed his girlfriend’s parents after they had convinced their daughter to break up with Giampa because of his racist beliefs. In Aztec, New Mexico, 21-year-old William Atchison, who frequented white supremacist sites like The Daily Stormer, and who had grown obsessed with school shootings, killed two students at a local high school. Atchison took his own life, and Giampa attempted to and remains hospitalized in critical condition.

9.

Where are these other 9????????????? I checked 4 sites and can't find them.

.

Heres an interesting fact. So white supremacist killed 18 (allegedly) in 2017.

By comparison, 650 people were murdered in Chicago in 2017.







Posted January 19th by #85
#85

By comparison, 650 people were murdered in Chicago in 2017.

Why do you want a breakdown (case by case) of 18 (alleged) murders but you don't even slightly break down the 650 murders of a major city? There's a difference in murders related to things like gang violence (over things like territory or retaliation) versus those considered "hate crimes" based on race. Instead just leave it there and claim it "interesting"?

Posted January 19th by Fox Forever
Fox Forever

This one won't count when Fields gets his charges dropped.


They wont be dropping his charges lol

Hes not the brightest bulb in the tool shed, fox.

The fact of the matter is these white supremacist are a growing danger. And are far from being peaceful or innocent. If 85 wants to be associated and defend individuals like that, thats on him.

Im not gonna shed a tear when one of these idiots gets killed for acting on their degenerate habits.

Edited January 19th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

hate crimes spiked when trump ran for president AND after he won

Posted January 20th by ShadowFox08
ShadowFox08

There's a difference in murders related to things like gang violence (over things like territory or retaliation) versus those considered "hate crimes" based on race

So what is that difference? Are drive-by shootings and domestic murders less hateful than so called "hate crimes"?

There may be some utility in keeping track of the number of arbitrary murders motivated by racial, ethic, or religious prejudice, but in this case the headline is a bit deceptive. When they say that white supremacist murders "more than doubled" we likely initially assumed that the number would be slightly larger than what would be found on a third grader's times tables.

#85's point about Chicago is therefore perfectly valid. Inner city violence is an order of magnitude more destructive in Chicago alone than extremist violence considered in a national context, and just as with the ADL my casual reference to mathematical principles is technically correct.

Extremism is a concern, but it is worth keeping these things in perspective. To answer the question posed in the OP, I don't think that 34 murders is in and of itself worthy of a great deal of national attention.

Detroit saw 303 murders in 2016, compared to 295 the year before — a 3 percent increase. In comparison, Los Angeles, which has 4 million people compared to Detroit's 669,000 — saw 295 murders in 2015. That's 8 fewer than Detroit.

Detroit, however, didn't have the highest murder rate. That title went to St. Louis, which had a rate of 60 murders per 100,000 people in 2016. Baltimore was second with a rate of 51 murders per 100,000. Detroit was third, with 45 murders per 100,000 residents. In comparison,

In 2016, Detroit saw 579 rapes; 9,882 aggravated assaults; and 2,941 robberies.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2017/09/25/detroit-crime-violence/700443001/
This, however, is, and I for one intend to hold President Trump to his word when he promised to take these municipal governments to task.

Edited January 20th by Famov
Famov

So what is that difference? Are drive-by shootings and domestic murders less hateful than so called "hate crimes"?

That's subjective but it's also not the point of this thread. Plus it would be a valid point if 85 was to bring up that more white people were murdered because of a hate crime or something. The topic soh has here is about murders motivated by race. Specifically whites motivated to kill any other race. To bring up the murders of one entire city in here is just pointless.

Your point of it being too small or deceptive is valid criticism though.

Posted January 20th by Fox Forever
Fox Forever

Odd that liberals care so much about "white supremacist" murder, which they condemn unequivocally; while taking no interest in Islamist murder, which has claimed many, many more lives, and which they continue to make excuses for.

hate crimes spiked when trump ran for president AND after he won

Is this true?

The same narrative was peddled in the wake of the Brexit vote in this country. Police statistics have since shown that while reporting of hate crimes went up, convictions actually went down.

Brexit, and Trump, sent the liberal establishment into a moral panic, which attributed both results to "hate" rather than a rejection of its failed ideology. Several organisations even launched concerted campaigns to encourage the public to report incidents of hate crime - out of good intentions, but mistaken assumptions - which drove the number of reports up, many of which later turned out to be false.

I don't know the statistics for America, but I imagine the same applies there as it does here - the similarities in the narrative are almost identical.

Posted January 20th by Smiling Apple
Smiling Apple

Once again, Smiling demonstrates he has little understanding of America and projects his cynical “ZOMG LIBRULS AND ISLAMISTS!” view of Britain onto America. For the record, white supremacy, government authoritarianism, gang violence and even small time violent crime pose a much bigger threat in the US than Islamic terrorism, whether you break it down by number of incidents, number of casualties, or just the number of people it influences and affects.

Edited January 20th by pacman
pacman
 

Also noticed that non-American whites seem clueless as to just how much many American whites HAAAAAAAAAATE nonwhites (especially blacks, Hispanics, Middle Easterners and Jews) and basically want them all either subjugated or dead, no exaggeration. That sort of thinking is still alive and well in middle America, especially emboldened after Trump’s election. Views such as 85’s are posiively vanilla and sound like MLK compared to shit I’ve heard from random rednecks.

Posted January 20th by pacman
pacman
 

@smiling you do realize no one on the right talks about white supremacists right. They choose to ignore them. Last I checked the left has condemned the attacks carried out by islamist radicals. The only issues we have is that certain individuals paint all Muslims as radicals.

Posted January 20th by S.h.
S.h.
 

Nah SOH don’t you remember? All leftists collectively “celebrate” Islamist attacks.

Posted January 20th by pacman
pacman
 

I thought those were 4th of July celebrations. Dam liberals played me like a fiddle.

Posted January 20th by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Lol. Man with the weather being the way it’s been where I live, I could go for some heavy, warming 4th of July BBQ right now.

Posted January 20th by pacman
pacman
 

It's been in the 40s here. And I hate it. I can only imagine how bad it's been for some of y'all.

Posted January 20th by S.o.h
S.o.h
 

Lmao it just got in the 40s here and everyone is celebrating the warmth. I’m actually pretty cool with a 40 degree average. Working outdoors made me realize I don’t last long in anything over 85 degrees lol

Posted January 20th by pacman
pacman
 

For the record, white supremacy, government authoritarianism, gang violence and even small time violent crime pose a much bigger threat in the US than Islamic terrorism

Well, the last three, sure. I'm not disputing that. But not the first. Which is my point. I also didn't say anything about America. I was talking about casualties generally.

In any case, Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in America (and certainly far more lives outside America) than "white supremacy" has.

If by white supremacy you actually mean white supremacy that is, and not just anyone who happens to hold right-wing views. "White supremacy" seems to be the empty buzzword of the moment, and no longer solely reserved for white supremacists.

Edited January 20th by Smiling Apple
Smiling Apple

Well, the last three, sure. I'm not disputing that. But not the first. Which is my point.

Thats a bullshit lie. Even the FBI and various other agencies have said that white supremacy is a bigger threat here in the states than Islamic terrorism.

In any case, Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in America (and certainly far more lives outside America) than "white supremacy" has.

Thats great? Doesnt change the fact that white supremacy is a growing threat and has to be taken as seriously as Islamic terrorism in the United States. The evidence pin points that you have a higher chance of being killed by one of these loons than by a goat fucking jihad.

Why is a brit telling me who I should worry about?

Posted January 20th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

Also noticed that non-American whites seem clueless as to just how much many American whites HAAAAAAAAAATE nonwhites

Smiling the rest of these non american whites are sheltered fools thats for sure. Its not their fault though. The U.K. and Europe as a whole have for the most part been a little bit better in regards to race issues. Thats somewhat starting to change though.

Posted January 20th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

You're putting words in my mouth that I never said.

I've never denied that right-wing terrorism is a growing threat. Only that it is less of a threat than Islamic terrorism. Which it is, including in America, despite you telling me that I have no idea what I'm talking about. In any case, my original point had more to do with liberal hypocrisy than it had to do with statistics.

Am I denying that right-wing terrorism shouldn't be taken seriously? Not at all. Only that it should be put into perspective, and shouldn't be used as some sort of political football by liberals wanting to play identity politics with it.

The U.K. and Europe as a whole have for the most part been a little bit better in regards to race issues. Thats somewhat starting to change though.

No it's not. We are, and continue to be, the least racist country on the globe.

Posted January 20th by Smiling Apple
Smiling Apple

No it's not. We are, and continue to be, the least racist country on the globe.


Really? The rise of all these alt right groups across Europe and the U.K. makes believe other wise.


Only that it is less of a threat than Islamic terrorism. Which it is, including in America, despite you telling me that I have no idea what I'm talking about

Then in regards to America You obviously dont know what you are talking about. Like I said the evidence is all there. Its been stressed by various agencies that these individuals pose the same if not greater threat to the U.S. as the Radical Islamist.



Posted January 20th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

"Views such as 85’s are posiively vanilla and sound like MLK compared to shit I’ve heard from random rednecks."

yeah, #85 isn't unique at all

Edited January 20th by poptart!
poptart!
 

Really? The rise of all these alt right groups across Europe and the U.K. makes believe other wise.

Well then maybe you don't know what you're talking about? There is no significant rise of the "alt-right" in the UK to speak of. There is no equivalent to the AfD, Sweden Democrats, Golden Dawn, Freedom Party of Austria or Front National in the UK. The furthest to the right you get here is UKIP, which are just a shambles of a libertarian party. The BNP died a long time ago.

Then in regards to America You obviously dont know what you are talking about. Like I said the evidence is all there. Its been stressed by various agencies that these individuals pose the same if not greater threat to the U.S. as the Radical Islamist.

No it hasn't. Some officials have spoken in an individual capacity about the threat posed by far-right extremists being comparable to (or greater than) Islamic terrorism.

The death toll says otherwise.

And "far-right" encompasses a wide range of wackjobs, not just "white supremacists".

Posted January 21st by Smiling Apple
Smiling Apple

Smiling,

At least in the US, right-wing terrorism is a bigger threat than Islamic terrorism. I get the whole 9/11 hysteria and shit but honestly if we examine the past few years, a lot of attacks have been carried out by right wingers. We can throw in the extremist left-wing variety too. Though that usually is more mischief than wholesale slaughter.

Posted January 24th by Blazer72
Blazer72
 

For the record, white supremacy, government authoritarianism, gang violence and even small time violent crime pose a much bigger threat in the US than Islamic terrorism, whether you break it down by number of incidents, number of casualties, or just the number of people it influences and affects.

Lmao. Forget your numbers and statistics those mean nothing because um white people.

Posted January 29th by #85
#85

In any case, Islamic terrorism has claimed more lives in America (and certainly far more lives outside America) than "white supremacy" has.

Idk where you are getting that from. Based on every stat I’ve seen, there have been far more far right/white supremacist attacks in USA than global Jihadist attacks. Furthermore, the Trump admin has stopped tracking right wing terrorism:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-extremists-program-exclusiv/exclusive-trump-to-focus-counter-extremism-program-solely-on-islam-sources-idUSKBN15G5VO
So exact numbers are hard to determine. In any case, you’ve previously shown at least some concern over right wing violence. Trump ignoring the problem in the place where it is most prevalent should worry you if this is a genuine concern of yours.

As for the migrant crisis in your country, I try not to hold strong opinions on the domestic policies of foreign countries, but from what I can tell, EU’s open border policy is making the Islamist problem worse, so they should probably close the borders and have tighter security; I’ve said as much. One thing I’ve noticed is, even though it is England that has the “nanny state” reputation, it is America that obsesses over “security”, i.e. carding anyone who appears to be under age 40 before they can buy alcohol. Normally this sort of thing is a nuisance, but it seems like a sensible thing to do on a country’s border during a time where immigrants are flooding in. Maybe there are nuances I’m not aware of, but I definitely can see why you would get frustrated by people calling you racist for holding this opinion. But here’s the thing: has it ever occurred to you that it might be similarly frustrating for those of us in the States to be pigeonholed and labeled SJWs and even terrorist sympathizers when we express concern about the very real and often ignored resurgence of white supremacy?

And as for you, 85, you’ve demonstratesd many times that you have no regard for facts and no desire for discussion of any kind. Any “real” or respectful discussion from you is a facade and merely serves as a lubricant to ease people into your crazy Nazi/alt right/trolling bullshit. My response to you is, eat shit.

Posted January 29th by pacman
pacman
 

Oh btw Smiling (or Arch), how will Brexit affect the open border policy if at all?

Posted January 29th by pacman
pacman
 

We technically don't have an open border as we opted out of Schengen. You can't pass from France to the UK without passing some form of border control.

We don't know how Brexit will affect border policy as the UK government is intent on drawing out negotiations forever and cannot decide on what option it wants for the border.

The most stringent option would mean treating EEA nationals as non-EEA nationals, meaning they would not be able to enter the UK without being subject to immigration control and would have to regularise their stay via the usual visa methods. Caveats on getting employment would apply as well. This would most likely cause problems with Ireland and France however, as we'd be accepting a 'hard' border scenario and exiting the customs union.

Edited January 29th by Arch
Arch
 

You can't pass from France to the UK without passing some form of border control.

Interesting. I didn’t know that. Do you know what kind of security there is on the border? Like, how tight or lax is it? Is there a vetting system?

We don't know how Brexit will affect border policy as the UK government is intent on drawing out negotiations forever and cannot decide on what option it wants for the border.

Ah. That sounds familiar.

The most stringent option would mean treating EEA nationals as non-EEA nationals, meaning they would not be able to enter the UK without being subject to immigration control and would have to regularise their stay via the usual visa methods. Caveats on getting employment would apply as well. This would most likely cause problems with Ireland and France however, as we'd be accepting a 'hard' border scenario and exiting the customs union.

Maybe it’s because I’m American or missing key details, but it doesn’t seem all that stringent to me considering Europe’s mass immigration problem. So long as waivers are available for people who make that trip regularly (say, for work). I definitely wouldn’t make the change permanent though. What would the less stringent options be?


Posted January 30th by pacman
pacman
 

Interesting. I didn’t know that. Do you know what kind of security there is on the border? Like, how tight or lax is it? Is there a vetting system?

It's a series of domestic and juxtaposed controls, as we're an island - the only land border is between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (whilst it's a 'soft' border in that there are no border controls, ROI also opted out of Schengen so the Irish have a similar set-up when it comes to their EU facing border control). So along with airports and seaports, which are high security environments and the standard international entry clearance protocols apply, we've negotiated with France and Belgium to allow immigration checks before entry on rail and certain ferry routes that originate outside the UK. The UK border, for all intents and purposes, technically starts in northern France and at Bruxelles-Midi.

It's a standard vetting system, although obviously the specific procedures and legislation differs from the US. You can't get in without entry clearance (which can apply to a number of things) if that's what you're wondering, unless you want to hang on to the underside of an articulated lorry near Calais I suppose.

Maybe it’s because I’m American or missing key details, but it doesn’t seem all that stringent to me considering Europe’s mass immigration problem. So long as waivers are available for people who make that trip regularly (say, for work). I definitely wouldn’t make the change permanent though. What would the less stringent options be?

It depends on if we're talking about the migrant crisis and refugees or EEA immigration here, as they're two different immigration problems. You refer to the former above.

My point was the 'mass' part of mass immigration in the context of Brexit is an economic one, as we're talking about EEA nationals. They are able to enter the UK freely owing to European freedom of movement legislation, and swiftly enter employment via lawful means as by virtue of your EEA status your stay is already technically regularised (i.e. no visas are required). Pro-Brexit arguments are mainly concerned with reducing the large amount of Eastern Europeans who have enjoyed this ability to move from less developed, lower standard of living EU member states and work and earn a greater purchasing power wage (pound sterling is/was a high value currency upon conversion to say Polish zloty).

The stringent changeover would mean this no longer applies, and EEA nationals would have to apply via the standard route of visas and long periods of regularising stay (which includes a lot of administration and paperwork on their part) - so far this has been the process for everyone from outside the EEA.

Edited January 31st by Arch
Arch
 
Reply to: White Supremacist Murders More Than Doubled in 2017

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