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Politics & Religion


World events, politics and whatever (especially whatever)
WARNING: Posts may contain offensive content and red wine
09/11/2001 WE REMEMBER

"Fear is the foundation of most governments." - John Adams

"My family is more important than my party." - Zell Miller


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jYoCxpWkE
This stuff is just so upsetting and disturbing. The thought that people can even think, agree, and support ideas like this, rooted in visual appearance over preference, is appalling.

I'd rather give up free speech than allow hate like this to boil.

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There are 31 Replies

I laughed at the genetics testing part. Only idiots base arguments or personal esteem on this neurotic analysis of percentages and sub-regions. It's helpless, fatalist nonsense.

Posted June 29th by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

I'd rather give up free speech than allow hate like this to boil.

Nah that’s dumb


Posted June 29th by pacman
pacman
 

I'd rather give up free speech than allow hate like this to boil.

Imagine surrendering your rights over Craig Cobb, a man seemingly defeated by a small town mayor and local law enforcement. Just because we have certain inalienable rights doesn't mean that our society doesn't have something of an immune system for characters like this, and in this case he was rather aggressively removed from his wannabe enclave.

Political and religious extremists have taken over small towns before, and far more successfully than Craig Cobb managed to do. This is a legitimate concern and one that can be expressed without admitting that you're really not all that big on the whole "freedom" thing. But perhaps it's good to get these admissions out there.

This is a story from 2015 so we can forgive ABC for referencing the Southern Poverty Law Center, a now totally disgraced organization that just had to pay out 3 million to Maajid Nawaz over defamation. Apparently this moderate (yet devout) Muslim and opponent of Islamism was labeled an "Anti Muslim Extremist" for sharing a cartoon of Mohammad over social media. This tells us a couple of things. First, that the SPLC is beholden to Sharia for some reason. Second, that it must be difficult indeed to even find "anti Muslim extremists" if a figure like Nawaz, about whom gtx0's very own Temerit once said that he was "a big fan", could qualify as one.

Posted June 29th by Famov
Famov

Getting rid of free speech would not magically somehow protect the poor
and oppressed. It would only diminish what little rights they do have and further embolden and empower tyrants.

Posted June 29th by pacman
pacman
 

it must be difficult indeed to even find "anti Muslim extremists"

Go to a Trump rally. Or just a random southern small town and talk to people. You will almost certainly encounter people who can easily be sent into fits of rage hearing about them goddamn ragheads taking over.

SPLC also likes to falsely accuse people of antisemitism for criticizing Israel.

Posted June 29th by pacman
pacman
 

"Apparently this moderate (yet devout) Muslim and opponent of Islamism was labeled an "Anti Muslim Extremist" for sharing a cartoon of Mohammad over social media."

yikes i would fall under that label as well if that's where we're putting the bar

Posted June 29th by poptart!
poptart!
 

I laughed at the genetics testing part. Only idiots base arguments or personal esteem on this neurotic analysis of percentages and sub-regions. It's helpless, fatalist nonsense.

Stormfront, the internet's most popular white supremacist group, requires its members be 100% European descent, whatever that means. I laughed, too.

Political and religious extremists have taken over small towns before, and far more successfully than Craig Cobb managed to do. This is a legitimate concern and one that can be expressed without admitting that you're really not all that big on the whole "freedom" thing. But perhaps it's good to get these admissions out there.

Citizens United, the decision that allowed businesses to pump millions of dollars into candidate elections, was determined over free speech. The ability for a business to deny service to individuals was determined over free speech. The plethora of hate speech we allow is because of free speech. And if we do not curb free speech at all, stupid speech eventually becomes accepted as the norm. I would give up much to ensure a meritocracy.

Posted June 29th by mariomguy
mariomguy

Stormfront, the internet's most popular white supremacist group, requires its members be 100% European descent, whatever that means. I laughed, too.


Where did you get this from? Stormfront is a website and anyone can join.

Posted June 30th by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

Really? So the website that claims pure European descent is superior would be perfectly fine with members that are not white. Isn't that contradictory to the point of "WHITES R BETTUR?"

I'm sure if you posted DNA results that weren't 100% European it would be frowned upon. Besides, DNA doesn't permanently dissolve, it doesn't work like that. Some traits skip generations and pop back up later. It's entirely possible if your parents are one race and your grandparents are another that you will skip over your parent's race. It's weird, and rare, but true. An African-American family with white heritage can give birth to a white child.

Posted June 30th by mariomguy
mariomguy

Really? So the website that claims pure European descent is superior would be perfectly fine with members that are not white.


Firstly, that's a giant false dichotomy, as many white people have mixed genetics.

Secondly, yes, they let anyone join. It's a fucking internet forum, not a real-life ethnic enclave. It's purely about how you present yourself.

Thirdly, this is not even relevant to your original claim, which is that Stormfront requires the members to be 100% European.

Fourthly, they are aware of the fact that many white people have mixed genetics and that you do not have to be pure European to believe in the European tradition. They see the 100% European club as a special bonus for fortunate people, not any kind of requirement.

You have no idea what you're talking about, you're trying to shift the argument away from your baseless claims and you do that by making other baseless claims. Just stop for once, admit that you don't know what you're talking about and move on. No-one will blame you for not knowing specifics about a racist internet shithole.

Posted June 30th by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

If a white nationalist group supported mixed genes, then what's the point of the group?

Posted June 30th by mariomguy
mariomguy

If a white nationalist group supported mixed genes, then what's the point of the group?


In response, I will ask you to address the baseless and incorrect claim that you made which spawned your own line of questioning. Will you substantiate it or will you recant? Once again, ignorance of the inner dealings of white nationalist groups will not be looked down upon; if anything, it's a good sign. You are, however, still incorrect about Stormfront requiring 100% European descent.

Posted July 1st by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

https://www.statnews.com/2017/08/16/white-nationalists-genetic-ancestry-test/
It’s striking, they say, that white nationalists would post these results online at all. After all, as Panofsky put it, “they will basically say if you want to be a member of Stormfront you have to be 100 percent white European, not Jewish.”


So, yeah, this source stated 100% European decent is required. Jewish decent is surprisingly not.

Posted July 1st by mariomguy
mariomguy

That article actually indicates that you are wrong, because it says that there are Stormfront members that aren't 100% European and that they don't reject those members when their genealogy information comes to light. Besides that, you are also disproved by direct expriment in that anyone can join Stormfront without being 100% European (or even white at all). Please stop posting if you are going to insist on being wrong and ignorant.

Edited July 2nd by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

For the study authors, what was most interesting was to watch this online community negotiating its own boundaries, rethinking who counts as “white.” That involved plenty of contradictions. They saw people excluded for their genetic test results, often in very nasty (and unquotable) ways, but that tended to happen for newer members of the anonymous online community, Panofsky said, and not so much for longtime, trusted members. Others were told that they could remain part of white nationalist groups, in spite of the ancestry they revealed, as long as they didn’t “mate,” or only had children with certain ethnic groups. Still others used these test results to put forth a twisted notion of diversity, one “that allows them to say, ‘No, we’re really diverse and we don’t need non-white people to have a diverse society,'” said Panofsky.


I agree, I don't know where the White Nationalists at Stormfront draw the line. Apparently they draw it as "you've been here for a long time, so we accept your 10% discrepancy." Please, teach me more so I can learn about what it means to be hell-bent on ethnic purity and do it properly. I want to be racist, too!

Posted July 1st by mariomguy
mariomguy

There is no need to be mad.

Posted July 2nd by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

There are absolutely, in the white-nationalist worldview, "tiers" of whiteness as well as a concept of honorary whiteness. They don't have to make any sense, but they're there. Asian folks regularly show up to neo-Nazi meetups, and indeed, there are white fellow-travellers in white supremacist circles who propose an east asian > caucasian > everyone else kind of hierarchy based on Japan and China's tendency towards very high test scores.

Moreover, if any organization actually required proof of 100% pure European ancestry, it'd be fucking empty - there was a lot more intercontinental mixing than white power fuckheads like to admit, historically, and they have to fill their ranks somehow. Many of the most virulent racists are often driven by anxiety and insecurity about their own heritage when it's in question; arguably, it's what was wrong with Manson and what drove much of the upper echelon of the Nazi Party. When a Nazi gets his 23AndMe back and finds out he's 1/8 black and 1/5 Jewish or whatever and suddenly he needs to go home and rethink his life - that's sweet, sweet schadenfreude. Of course, if he was prepared to listen to reason or evidence, he wouldn't be a Nazi - c'est la vie.

Posted July 5th by Pink Peruvian Flying Bear
Pink Peruvian Flying Bear

Racism is dumb. How can genes be "pure?" They're just genes. White and Asian ancestry is no better than Jewish or African ancestry. Egypt had a lengthy history, and it has been surmised that the colors of people living in Egypt spanned the gamut. The world's oldest civilizations were mixed!

Posted July 6th by mariomguy
mariomguy

OK, that's nice and all. Are we ever going to address the Stormfront claim again? Just say no and we can move on, or say yes and then either substantiate or recant.

Posted July 6th by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

wasn’t storm-front found by David duke ? ehy Does he want 100 percent Europe’s on his website. If he is an American?

Edited July 6th by Brandy
Brandy

We already addressed the Stormfront claim. They hope their users are 100% white, but they will also accept 90% if you've said enough racist things in your life.

This thread is about how racism is stupid. If you want to make another thread about how racism is good, please, good luck trying to do that. You and #85 can hit it off talking about bullshit while the adults can continue their conversation in here.

I still, to this day, hold that a meritocracy would be better than a democracy for the simple reason that people don't really know what's best for them. People love to make ridiculous claims completely unsupported by science, pass it off as truth, and thousands of people follow like sheep. It would be fine if those people weren't also allowed to vote, but they are. Racism is a hot issue and a real problem in America, and really only a couple other nations. It's sad that people to this day, in 2018, continue to attend KKK rallies like they're supporting a great cause, or a speech by Milo Yiannopolous like he's some authority figure. You can't do that and ignore scientists and call yourselves intelligent. Bill Nye said if you take someone from Africa and someone from Europe and they had sex, you would get a baby. There's no scientific backing behind the idea that races are inherently more intelligent.

Nature plays a significant role as well. Malala Yousafzai was brought up in a household with educated parents, so she pursued education herself and is now attending Stanford. She was born in a village in Pakistan. There are plenty of white trash kids in America's booming and vibrant cities who grow up to uneducated and poor parents and don't accomplish a fraction of what Malala did.

You have people of African ancestry like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King Jr, Maya Angelou, and Fredrick Douglas all throughout history, so clearly the problem is not one of race, but one of pride. Some White people are afraid of those who look a little different, or speak a different language, so instead of trying to find ways to mingle, they choose to distance themselves from "the other," cower in fear and lash out in anguish at "the other," all the while presenting no actual solutions to any problems that actually exist while pretending they are always right in their dismissive behavior. That's what racism is: a bunch of white people who are angry and afraid and want some artificial justification for it. Stormfront is just a website where racists go to talk. It would be nice to shut down Stormfront, but the proper thing to do is explain to racists why their entire world view is predicated on a falsehood and present alternate solutions that help to better integrate our society and help bring us closer together.

Newsflash: all of humanity has ancestry in places like ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia. Humanity has never been 100% white. Any attempt to achieve this is futile.

Posted July 6th by mariomguy
mariomguy

We already addressed the Stormfront claim. They hope their users are 100% white, but they will also accept 90% if you've said enough racist things in your life.


OK, so you admit that you were wrong. Thank you.

If you want to make another thread about how racism is good, please, good luck trying to do that. You and #85 can hit it off talking about bullshit while the adults can continue their conversation in here.


What the fuck are you talking about?

That's what racism is: a bunch of white people


Do you believe that only white people can be racist? Because that's what this statement heavily implies.

Posted July 6th by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

Wow, you're fishing. Reelly fishing, there. The whole point of white nationalism is to promote white "purity." The real problem is this whole construct is arbitrary: Craig Cobb has African ancestry in him, but you can barely see it because the traits may have manifested in ways other than skin color. Stormfront isn't even good at the thing they're preaching: genetics don't matter at all! Yeah, I'm wrong to say Stormfront wants 100% European decent: all they really want is the color!

Black people can be racist too, but after slavery, segregation, red lining, and most recently police/justice biasing and hate crimes, the crux of this issue in America has always been one-sided.

Posted July 6th by mariomguy
mariomguy

Black people can be racist too


Thank you. We're making a lot of progress today.

Posted July 6th by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

So, no comment on actual reality?

Posted July 6th by mariomguy
mariomguy

What do you want me to comment on?

Posted July 6th by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

The fact that Stormfront prioritizes color over culture and all other traits. African people can still grow up in or immigrate to Britain and share the culture of Englishmen, but that's not what Stormfront wants. Someone can have 20% mixed ancestry and fair skin, so that's acceptable, but someone else can have 10% mixed ancestry and darker skin, and that's immediately not. It doesn't matter that black people are smart, creative, or intelligent, it doesn't matter if they're peaceful, ambitious, motivated, or positive, uplifting individuals, if they're black, marrying white folks, and having children, that's seen as a problem.

Or are we just going to gloss over this whole White Nationalism thing and pretend this hateful, spiteful oppression is somewhat rooted in fact over fiction and therefore a valid opinion? Sorry, but your right to an opinion ends when it hurts someone else.

Posted July 8th by mariomguy
mariomguy

I never said otherwise on those points.

Posted July 8th by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

OK? So you were hell bent about all the points that didn't matter?

Is there anyone else who actually wants to discuss the actual topic?

Posted July 8th by mariomguy
mariomguy

driven by anxiety and insecurity about their own heritage when it's in question


dam these people are worse than SJWs lol

Posted July 8th by S.o.hm
S.o.hm
 

OK? So you were hell bent about all the points that didn't matter?


You said something wrong and I addressed that.

Posted July 8th by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin
Reply to: White Supremacist Moves Into Town - Craig Cobb

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