This is to help me with anthroponymy (ie onomastics of personal proper names) in some of my con-cultures.
I would like to have people’s “first names” be in honor of the parents and siblings of their great-grandparents,
and people’s “middle names” be in honor of the parents and siblings of their grandparents.
So, for instance, some rules like the following (subject to pragmatic modification in the face of harsh reality):
[hide]A man’s sons’ first names should be the first names of the man’s grandparents’ fathers and brothers.
A woman’s sons’ middle names should be the middle names of the woman’s parents’ fathers and brothers.
A woman’s daughters’ first names should be the first names of the woman’s grandparents’ mothers and sisters.
A man’s daughters’ middle names should be the middle names of the man’s parents’ mothers and sisters.[/hide]
But it has been suggested to me that we can’t rely on most people remembering that far back.
[hide]So maybe first names should come from parents’ parents’ parents and siblings, and middle names should come from parents’ parents and siblings?
A man’s sons’ first names maybe should come from the first names of the man’s parents’ fathers and brothers?
A woman’s daughters’ first names maybe should come from the first names of the woman’s parents’ mothers and sisters?
A man’s daughters’ middle names should come from the middle names of the man’s mother and sisters?
A woman’s sons’ middle names should come from the middle names of the woman’s father and brothers?[/hide]
Posted August 23rd, 2019
Remembering the maiden names of aunts or grandaunts is pointless -- it's just the same as their relative to you's last name or maiden name:
* an aunt on your father's side -- maiden name is just your father's last name
* an aunt on your mother's side -- maiden name is just your mother's maiden name
* a great-aunt on a grandfather side -- maiden name is your grandfather's last name
* a great-aunt on a grandmother side -- shares a maiden name with that grandmother.
I remember my family quite a ways back. Going by initials here:
My name -- SC
Parents -- HC, EC
Grandparents -- EM, JC, JC, MR
Great-grandparents -- HC, PM, JC, TM, CC, BD, FE, CR
Some lines go back way further as well -- two more generations for HC, three for PM, there's yet another JC beyond that JC, I used to know a lot about the BD line, FE's line changed their last name to avoid showing up as indians on the census, etc.
Posted August 23rd, 2019
I can't really answer that one with just one of those answers, as it depends on which side of my family you're talking about. I had to do a direct family tree assignment once in school, and I used to have it saved on a CD, but said CD has since been damaged. That's where I get the information on my earliest ancestors from. On my dad's side, I know the names of my grandparents and precisely two of my great-grandparents off-hand; I had the names of all four on that family tree. On my mother's side...well, that gets complicated. On her mother's side (my maternal grandmother's side), I knew the names of all of my great-great-grandparents, and the maiden name of one of my great-great-grandmothers; on my material grandfather's side, I know the names of my Papa's paternal grandfather and both of his maternal grandparents, and one of his great-grandparents.
When it comes to uncles/aunts/cousins/etc., it gets even more complicated. I've met my paternal grandmother's siblings, and I know my grandfather on that side had a brother (after whom my dad was actually named). On my mother's side is where it gets complicated. I know all of her aunts and uncles on both sides, and I knew one of her great-uncles, and I know the names of her paternal grandfather's siblings and one of her maternal grandfather's siblings, but that's about it. My grandparents on that side came from the Upper Peninsula, and our family up there is more bush than tree. We have cousins up there who are double first cousins to one another, cousins who are first and second cousins simultaneously...my maternal grandmother has -- no joke -- 32 first cousins, nevermind higher degrees, and damned if I could even start naming all of them. It can be safely assumed then that both of her parents (my mother's maternal grandparents) came from large families, as did their parents.
I do, however, know my mother's first and second cousins, and one of my dad's first cousins, as well as some of my third cousins.
Posted August 23rd, 2019
by Black Yoshi
I realized that I technically lied on my vote after I had cast it, but only in some minor details.
I know my mother's side of the family almost completely, farther back than my grandparents. I know my grandmother's maiden name, and (with some effort to remember) the maiden names of the aunts who married in on that side, and both my maternal grandparent's mother's maiden names.
My father's side is more complicated actually. I could ask my father what his birth mother's maiden name was, but I never knew her and don't consider her my grandmother. I could probably remember grandpa's mother's maiden name and his second wife's/my grandmother's maiden name with some prompting. I only met my aunt on that side as an adult, and have not and do not plan to meet my uncle, but I could give you their full names. I more recently met my cousin through that uncle but I couldn't tell you what her last name is, as she didn't take my uncle's last name.
Dad's side isn't super close, while mom's side is, but I still know a bit about both and can vaguely say I could get to my grandparents on both side without too much hassle.
Edited August 24th, 2019
> Remembering the maiden names of aunts or grandaunts is pointless -- it's just the same as their relative to you's last name or maiden name: * an aunt on your father's side -- maiden name is just your father's last name. * an aunt on your mother's side -- maiden name is just your mother's maiden name. * a great-aunt on a grandfather side -- maiden name is your grandfather's last name. * a great-aunt on a grandmother side -- shares a maiden name with that grandmother.
You are quite right!
I don’t know how that slipped past me.
Going by initials, as you did:
Me — THC
Father — RHC
Mother (maiden name) — BJD
Only brother — DAC
Older sister (maiden) — MAC
Younger sister (maiden) — SC (no middle name)
Father — RHC
Father’s father — CGC
Father’s mother (maiden) — CH (middle name? Unknown?)*
Father’s only brother — CGC jr
Father had no sisters
Mother (maiden) — BJD
Mother’s father — AND
Mother’s mother (maiden) — EFM
Mother’s only brother — AND (not jr — middle name different)
Mother’s first sister — JLD
Mother’s second sister — TFD (same middle name as mother’s mother)
FF — CGC
FF’s F — WC (middle name? Unknown?)*
FF’s M’s maiden name — MZG (that G was CGC’s middle name)
FF’s only known full-brother — AC (middle name? Unknown?)*
FF had at least one half-brother. I don’t know whether he had full- or half-sisters, or other full- or half-brothers.*
FM — CH (I seem to recall CSH). (The H is the same in Father’s RHC and my THC.)
FMF — RH (same as F’s RHC). Don’t know RH’s middle name.*
FMM — CS (same as in FM’s CSH). Don’t know FMM’s middle name*
FM’s sibling — don’t know.*
MF — AND
MFF — JD (middle name unknown)*
MFM — maiden name R; first and middle names unknown*
MF (AND) was raised by his half-sister ED (middle name unknown, married name I can’t believe I forgot!). He had one nephew a year older and another nephew a year younger. JD had three wives and many children. I can’t remember most of the names.*
MM — EFM
MMF — WDM
MMM — AO (AMO?) not sure of middle name*
MM’s brothers include EM (middle name unknown) and WDMjr; and possibly others.*
MM’s sisters include JM (middle name unknown) and another whose name escapes me at the moment, much to my surprise! I’m not sure how many brothers and/or sisters MM had, but I think I met most of them; the oldest, her brother EM, died before marrying of a flu epidemic. *
*I once knew, and could probably find out again with some time and effort. But I don’t know now.
FFF’s father, mother, siblings — doubt I ever knew.
FFM’s father, mother, siblings — doubt I ever knew.
FMF’s father, mother, siblings — doubt I ever knew.
FMM’s father, mother, siblings — doubt I ever knew.
MFF’s and MFM’s fathers, mothers, siblings — my MM gave me some information about some of these, but I can’t remember it :-(
MMF’s father — I saw his grave.
MMF’s mother and siblings — I think I saw some census data about them.
MMM’s parents and siblings; All I remember is her mother’s first and maiden names. They were AM.
For purposes of tracing familial “diseases” and other difficulties, I once had a project of finding out about everyone four or fewer steps away from me. (Back 4 generations; or back 3 generations and forward 1; or back 2 generations and forward 2; etc.) Clearly I almost completed it for 3 steps or fewer; made a good start for 4 steps but forgot a good bit of that; and could hardly get started on 5 steps away.
But I’m not asking about first-cousins nor first-cousins-n-generations-removed nor nth-cousins etc.
Only direct ancestors and their siblings (ie collateral ancestors). And your own siblings.
Edited August 24th, 2019
You'd make a fine & respectable Hobbit, sir!
I've lost most interest in genealogy, though years ago when I was more into it, I could probably name from memory back three generations (that's going back to the 1860s or 70s mind!) Though it would have been relatively trivial to memorise back to the 18th century. I recall some random names from that far back, though.
Of interest to you (and probably no one else in the whole world!), I made an enumeration of my philological genealogy (list of teachers and their teachers) a number of years ago. That list I could plausibly carry back to the mid-1600s. Eleven generations.
Edited January 3rd
Just now noticed this post!
In English-speaking mathematics departments in Texas, people keep track of their academic parents and grandparents and so on, and their academic children and grandchildren and so on. Conferences will be organized that are basically meetings of an academic derbfine.
Probably other fields, and/or other states, do something similar?
Anyway other countries do, particularly the Germans. In Germany the advisor who helps you get your doctorate is your Doktorvater. Oddly enough if she was a woman she is your Doktorvaterin!
Among artists in some Far East Asian tradition (Chinese? Japanese? Korean? Other? I don’t remember!), artists work under a self-chosen “stage”-name. It’s typically two syllables long and incorporates a syllable from the “stage”-name of the master to whom the artist was apprenticed. I saw two or three lineages that were three or four names long! I wish I could remember where! I suspect it was somewhere on Wikipedia, but I don’t know what search-string to use!
Eleven generations? Mid-1600s? Impressive!
Posted January 5th
the two most important ones
=Adam and Eve
Posted January 7th
Posted January 8th
This subforum is the new home of this thread.
Posted January 12th
That's just creepy German.
Somewhat conjectural, of course, by looking through biographies and determining a likely path of descent. Or ascent, depending on one's perspective!
> Mathematics departments
Didn't know that about math departments! Pretty neat bit of culture, though.
Edited January 12th