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Regarding at least one of the myriad reaosns I do not iwhs to "move on". It's because I think it's futile. I have nothing to gain from it and, if what I am lead to believe is true, it's something I'd have to do repeatedly until the day I die so it's ultimately not worht the trouble of not only haivng to deal with the thing I would be expected to "move on" form but also deal with the moving on itself repeatedly.

Sir, just suppose... suppose if I had a cat, what would you do with Frankenstein?
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There are 26 Replies

Perspective, man. You say you have "nothing to gain from it," but that might not actually be true. If "moving on" opens you up to new possibilities and new interests that you aren't experiencing because you refuse to let go of the past, then you do have something to gain from it. Alternatively, you also have nothing to lose from it at this point either. Clearly nothing is going to change back to the way you want it to be. What do you lose at this point by moving on? *Not* being constantly pissed off about something?

And yeah, moving on is a thing everyone has to do throughout their whole lives, and then we die. Ok, whatever. So would you rather spend that limited time miserable and complaining about things you can't change that are in the past, or moving on and finding new things to enjoy? And so what if it's only temporary? Why is it so horrible to appreciate something that doesn't last? Does something really need to last your entire life for it to be valuable? There's so much good shit out there, man. So much that it's impossible to see it all without having to sometimes leave things behind in the process. That's what growth is.

Posted December 10th, 2017 by Jet Presto

You know what, I had a looong response typed up but I don't even want to indulge you on this topic. I don't want to hear what you have to say on it and I don't want to hear you bleeting on about the perfection of your solution and how it's always my fault when it doesn't work. You are literally the absolute last person on this board I want to talk to about this subject.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by tnu
tnu

I really hope you get better soon.

Posted December 10th, 2017 by nullfather

Tnu you seem to be getting worse. You're coming across very aggravated and nonsensical.

Besides GT do you have any other places where you can talk to people?

Posted December 10th, 2017 by Agis
Agis
 

Just reddit and discord really. I'm becoming ever more agitated by Jets view on the subject in particular because he seems to be of the mind that it's an infallible solution and blames me whenever it fails because there's no way that the solution itself just isn't perfect.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by tnu
tnu

What exactly was you epiphany? This is all stuff you have said before both on & off the site so I'm struggling to see what new realization you came to.

I don't want to hear what you have to say on it and I don't want to hear you bleeting on about the perfection of your solution and how it's always my fault when it doesn't work.


Then why did you even make this post? You should know from the past few years of these posts exactly how it's going to go...

You are literally the absolute last person on this board I want to talk to about this subject.


If I ever had any problems, Jet is one of the people on this site I would absolutely want to talk to.

Anyway I've said it before bit I'll ssy it again... I'm pretty sure your problem is you don't want the "normal solutions" to work and therefore they don't.

I truly hope one day you find hapiness again, but you need to accept it's going to take a lot of hard work, and yes change, from yourself.

Posted December 10th, 2017 by Moonray
Moonray
 

it's something I'd have to do repeatedly until the day I die so it's ultimately not worht the trouble of not only haivng to deal with the thing I would be expected to "move on" form but also deal with the moving on itself repeatedly


Are you trying to say you'd always have to struggle to move on and keep moving on?

Move on from what?

Posted December 10th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium

What will it take for you to accept that the "normal solutions" not working isn't my fault and that maybe just maybe these solutions aren't perfect and infallible? But no if i'm going ot have to just keep doing it for the rest of m y life repeatedly it is nowhere near worth it.

Seriously! Why are you so confident that your solutions are so perfect and infallible that literally the only explanation for why they just don't work is beaus it's my fault!? Why do you ahve so much blind faith in these solutions that it can ONLY be my fault that they just aren't as perfect as you make them out to be? How many times do they ahve ot fial before you will accept that they aren't th e perfect cure-all solution that you insist that the y are and stop blaming me for their failure?!?

But yes the epiphany is that if i'm going ot have to keep doing it for the rest of my life it is NOT worth it because I don't want to keep going through that for the rest of my life!


Please j ust answer me what will it take to convince you that your solution not being perfect and actually failing is not my fault!? Because I am so done wiht you blaming me for its failure!


I am begging you to tell me what has to happen to prove to you that it is not my fault!


This is another reason I don't want to even try any more. I'm sick of going through the process only to be the one who is blamed for it not working.

You will NEVER convicne me as long as you insist that the only way it can EVER fail is if it's my fault.


This is just another reason not to even bother. I'm sick of trying, failing, and then being the one who is blamed when it fails! Just one more thing that makes it not even remotely worth the trouble.


Why even bot her putting in the effort when there is no winning for me!? If it fails it can only ever be my fault that it failed if it works than not only are eveyrone who have been trying to force it on me vindicated and get to hang it over my head for the rest of my life but i'm going to have to keep repeating the same process until the day I die! T here is no scenario in whi ch I can try this and it will be even remotely worth it!


I can't win with you can I?! If it fails I cna't win becuase it can only ever be my fault tha tit fails! You will keep pushing it on me and keep telling me it's my fault htat it hasn't worked so far! If it works not only do I have to deal with you and people like you constantly holding it over my head and saying "It worked that time!" but I would have to keep going through the process repeatedly until I die! There is literally no situation tha tI can see that doesn't completely suck for me!


Why? Why are you doing this to me? Why are you always blaming me when your solution that you try and force on me fails? why do you insist on continually making me go through that?

Edited December 10th, 2017 by tnu
tnu

I'm not entirely sure I understand what's going on but I think I understand your frustration for people suggesting the only reason things fail or go wrong is because you didn't put in enough effort. But you have to understand that people tend to encourage you to keep trying because they care for you and giving up isn't really a good thing either.

Sometimes people make too many assumptions about it though, I agree. People are very complicated and have an insane variety of different issues and what works for one person isn't going to work for the next. I hate it when people do that shit too.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium

But yes the epiphany is that if i'm going ot have to keep doing it for the rest of my life it is NOT worth it because I don't want to keep going through that for the rest of my life!


That's not an epiphany though because you've already had that opinion for years.

Why even bot her putting in the effort when there is no winning for me!? If it fails it can only ever be my fault that it failed if it works than not only are eveyrone who have been trying to force it on me vindicated and get to hang it over my head for the rest of my life but i'm going to have to keep repeating the same process until the day I die! T here is no scenario in whi ch I can try this and it will be even remotely worth it!


This right here is exactly why I say you don't want it to work.

You don't want it to work because then everyone will be right... You don't want it to work because then you'll have to do it again the next time as if that's somehow a bad thing.

This is just another reason not to even bother. I'm sick of trying, failing, and then being the one who is blamed when it fails! Just one more thing that makes it not even remotely worth the trouble.


Then stop moping around and come up with a better solution. You've had like three years of moaning about our solutions so you've had plenty of time to think of an alternative.

Also at some point you're going to have to learn that loss and failure aren't unique to you.

Posted December 10th, 2017 by Moonray
Moonray
 

Also at some point you're going to have to learn that loss and failure aren't unique to you.


I already know that. please don't make assumptions. Why do you assume that just because I talk about the subject as it applies to me that I somehow don't relaize it happens to other people? T hat fact doesn't change anything though.


I only even bothered posting this because I thought this might have been something I hadn't thoguth of before and might be the hting to explain it.

Why would I want to repeatedly go through such a horrible process for the rest of my life? Why would I want people to hold it over my head for the rest of my life? Conversely why wo uld I wnat people to continue to blame me and insist it has to be my fault when it fails?


Whatever I'm sorry for wasting your time I just thougth I might of had an epiphany on the subject.

But please answer my question. WHat wo uld it take to convince you that its failure isn't my fault and isn't just because I supposedly "want" it to fail? What will it take to convince you of that? What will it take for you to stop blaming me when it fails? Please naswer this. Because I am sick of being the one who is blamed eveyr time it blows up in my face.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by tnu
tnu

please don't make assumptions.


I'm not. I've seen you do it on this very site in the past and I generally get the theme of you think no one else understands how you feel even though we've all been there at some point. The only difference is we moved past it.

Why would I want to repeatedly go through such a horrible process for the rest of my life? Why would I want people to hold it over my head for the rest of my life? Conversely why wo uld I wnat people to continue to blame me and insist it has to be my fault when it fails?


My point was that these questions prove you have a bias against the solutions presented to you and you don't want them to work. You've held this opinion from the very first time you posted aboit this stuff and we've told you every time that not wanting the solutions to work will nake them not work.

WHat wo uld it take to convince you that its failure isn't my fault and isn't just because I supposedly "want" it to fail? What will it take to convince you of that?


For you to actually go into it with an open mind.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also I resent the acussation of making assumptions. If this were the first time we had talked about this and I didn"t know you then that would be a fair thing to say.

But I have known you for over 10 years and we've had conversations about this sort of thing on and off for most of that. But within the last 3ish years this is just about the only thing we've talked about.

So while I may not be a trained professional on this subject, I would like to think I know you well enough to know what I am talking about with the things I say.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by Moonray
Moonray
 

For you to actually go into it with an open mind.

What will prove to you that I did that exactly?


But I have known you for over 10 years and we've had conversations about this sort of thing on and off for most of that. But within the last 3ish years this is just about the only thing we've talked about.

I'm sorry. I just don't know what to say about this to be honest. I didn't mean to give off that impression I just don't think tha tthe same magic solution works for everyone and that eveyrone is just trying to force the solution to work in all cases. If it worked for you and Jet great! if it worked for other people great! You guys seem willing to repeatedly go through that whole horribly process for the rest of your lives so more power to you.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by tnu
tnu

What will prove to you that I did that exactly?


I don't know but the way you talk about it each time definitely gives me the impression you haven't ever had an open mind about it.

Posted December 10th, 2017 by Moonray
Moonray
 

Then there's no way you'll believe me if it happens again?


I also don't really trust that you're unbiased and and jus talready convinced it has to be my failt if it eve rfails.


So if it fails again we end up at an impasse. you won't accept it because you won't believe i wnet in to it with an open mind and i'm convinced tha tyou won't accept that it will ever not be my fault hwen it fails?

Edited December 10th, 2017 by tnu
tnu

I mean you're looking at it completely wrong... What does it matter if you and I are at an impass? Whether we're at an impass or not is irrelevant to your issue.

It doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong.

What matters is you're not getting any better (by your own admission) so whatever you're trying isn't working.

People can only give you advice based on their experiences. If you're wanting other solutions you may need to search elsewhere?

Posted December 10th, 2017 by Moonray
Moonray
 

That makes sense. A core problem whoever is that y oua nd I seem to have very different understandings of what would be "better". I would not personally be veyr happy with myself if I just "moved on" for example I owudn't be able to think about anything othe rhtan how I just rolled over and accepted defeat and how i'm jsut oging to have to keep going thorugh that unpleasent proces repeatedly for the rest of my life at that point. that does not sound " better" to me for some reason.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by tnu
tnu

Suicide
800-SUICIDE (800-784-2433) - National Suicide Hotline [24 Hours]

Posted December 10th, 2017 by Brandy

I’m sorry you’re going through this, tnu, and that you’ve been struggling for so long. I agree; there is no infallible solution for the crushing depression that so often accompanies living in the “post-meaning” void. I say it like this because I get the impression, from the several posts I’ve seen of yours, that many of your woes have these sort of existential roots (plus other crushing aspects of modernity e.g. hours and wage. It is true; sometimes it seems that living somehow bludgeons one’s spirit to death).

That being said, the solutions offered are not just those that have worked for others, but also (generally) what align best with the data available (and our understanding of the paradigm of depression). For example, eating healthier, exercising, and socializing are encouraged because the data suggest this helps most people (and it makes theoretical sense as to why this would be). I strongly disagree with the notion that depression is just self-indulgence, but I will concede that depression makes it difficult to really try wholeheartedly. You are right in that depression differs between people in terms of its refractoriness. Still, overcoming depression and really incorporating these solutions into your life does take great effort and change (within oneself). One major necessity, I’d say, is to shift your locus of control from external to internal. For example, you asked, "Why are you doing this to me?" and this sort of indicates to people that you've not shifted your locus of control enough to really embrace the offered solutions.

"The world has failed me; I have not failed it. The people around me are wrong, blind, naïve; given the circumstances, the way I feel is the only sensible outcome.” Depressed people often feel these things and it discourages them from internal change. It’s worth noting that these feelings are not mutually exclusive to feelings of low self-esteem or self-worth.

Ultimately, you oversee your own life, and while your failures may not be your “fault,” you are the one dealing with their consequences. This is where personal responsibility comes into play: most likely, no one will fight harder for you than yourself.

Why would I want to repeatedly go through such a horrible process for the rest of my life? Why would I want people to hold it over my head for the rest of my life?


I’m not sure what process you’re talking about, but depression can be a lifelong illness and may be best approached as a chronic disease (one that needs chronic management). Also, who cares if they hold it over your head? I imagine they’d be doing it to help (to encourage you to try something that’s worked for you before), not just to be weird glory hogs. If they are doing the latter, forget them. That's just weird and sucky.

Posted December 10th, 2017 by Ophelia

(in response to your most recent post)
And even all that being said, I do understand the difficulty of "conceding with reality," to ending the rebellion -- but it doesn't have to be that way. It all depends on what you want.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by Ophelia

what I want is completley misaligned iwht what eveyrbody else here seems to want at lest form m y perspective.


and what I mean ab out "going thro ugh it repeatedly for the rest of my life" is the veyr act and process of "movign on" which is something I find inherently unpleasent to the point wher eI'd rahter tgot to extreme sto avo id it.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by tnu
tnu

What do you think everybody else here wants? How do you know? What do you want?

I'm really sorry; I'm not exactly sure what you mean about the moving on thing as there appears to be a specific context I'm not getting.

Edited December 10th, 2017 by Ophelia

WHat i mean is i find the very act of "moving on" to be excruciating. It's a process that is not worth doing repeatedly for the rest of my life as far as I'm concerned. It's also not exaclty soemthign I want to live with having done.

Posted December 10th, 2017 by tnu
tnu

If there could only ever be one thing that you move on from, could it be posting here in order to have arguments with people about moving on? You know what we're going to say.

The flexibility of the human spirit is a divine gift. Denying that to yourself is denying a part of your nature. It is like putting shackles on yourself and chaining them to a boulder that you can't move. You can never move the boulder and you can never leave the boulder in these conditions, but you keep trying instead of just unlocking the chains.

If you have legitimately tried, which I am not sure that you have, then there is something that is probably physiologically wrong. A chemical imbalance, etc. Please, for the love of Satan, take some shrooms or acid or something. Not a lot, just microdose every few days. Get some perspective, make some new connections, maybe don't go on the internet for a while, go out in the woods and commune, something. Something that isn't walking around the same circular rut that you've been wearing out for years.

I'm not trying to be offesnsive here, I'm just trying to be blunt. I generally enjoyed talking with you on the couple of occasions that we talked. I want to see you get better and not struggle in this cognitive trap for the rest of your life. Just...do something.

Posted December 10th, 2017 by nullfather

@Brandy he hasn't even said anything about suicide though.

The flexibility of the human spirit is a divine gift


And the natural stagnation in some is a divine curse :^). But ya I get what you're saying. Just have to realize saying that is potentially a double edged sword if you think about it.

not just to be weird glory hogs


How do you tell the difference between that and someone who actually cares though?

Edited December 10th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium

Listen I'm sorry I just tho guth I had realized somet hign I hadn't before. I guess I was wrong . my bad Ok? SOrry just forget this.


EDIT: but let me just say one t h ing here. as long as you continue to insist that it can only ever be MY fault if your solution fails you will NEVER convince me ofyour solutions worth

Edited December 11th, 2017 by tnu
tnu
Reply to: Well I had a small epipheny.
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