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09/11/2001 WE REMEMBER

"Fear is the foundation of most governments." - John Adams

"Despite the constant negative press covfefe" - Donald Trump


yay for being on furlough

wanna place bets for how long until things get resolved?

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There are 43 Replies

This SchumerShutdown is just the Democrats catering to their constituents, their voting base : illegal aliens.

This greatly affects servicemembers. I remember i was in service for the last shutdown (which was more justified because they were protecting actual Americans from something that's objectively pretty unconstitutional and which was going to, and did, lead to premiums going up and people paying more) servicemembers were in many cases stranded on base awaiting orders and not getting paid.

Posted January 22nd by #85
#85

Lol it's all the Republicans fault. The Dems even wanted to pass something to pay service members but it was shut down by one of the top Republican s.



Posted January 22nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

I'm trying to figure out how on earth anyone can - mathematically - blame exclusively or primarily Democrats on this one, and I can't figure it out. The party that has majority power on all three branches of government, including both chambers of the legislative, and only needs a simple majority to pass a funding bill is - somehow - able to pin blame on the minority party alone for the shutdown? I mean, you know how hard you have to try to have the majority power in all branches and chambers and shut down the government? It's arguably only happened once before under Jimmy Carter, and Carter's shut downs didn't lead to federal employees not getting paid.

It's also confounding when you look at how Republicans have been the ones blocking DACA and CHIP bills for *months.* Democrats tried to pass a clean DACA bill - as everyone in Republican leadership from McConnell to Ryan to yes, even Trump himself said they also wanted. They tried to extend funding for CHIP. And they tried to do this months ago. (Both bills were supported by the majority of Americans, including Republicans. So I'm not entirely sure who is represented in our government when McConnell and company shoot it down for political leverage.) The idea that Democrats are using these things to shut down the government is literally insane when Democrats explicitly tried to pass these bills a while ago, completely separately from government funding. On top of which, a top Democrat submitted a bill that literally only extended funding to military service members so as to ensure they receive payments during the shutdown, and McConnell blocked it.

There is a bipartisan bill ready to go that has the support of a confirmed 56 senators. (Which, by the way, the GOP is in this mess because they don't have enough *Republican* support.) The President said he would sign any bill that the two parties hashed out together, and this bipartisan bill even sees Democrats conceding a sizeable chunk of change for the President's border wall (which, I guess we're finally admitting Mexico isn't going to pay for?)

The Democrats clearly feel DACA is a hill worth dying on, but at least they aren't contradicting themselves here. Republicans feel the hill worth dying on is *not* helping DREAMers, even though they have time and time again said they *want* to do that too. But you genuinely have to be delusional to pin the bulk of the blame on the minority party. Democrats are capable of fucking things up all on their own, but it's insane to look at this situation from any angle and genuinely think this isn't the result of poor Republican leadership, and key Republicans negotiating in bad faith.

Posted January 22nd by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

Even if you want to blame exclusively the Democrats, it is still worth noting that the Republican party has had majority power of all three branches of government and have *still* not extended CHIP or DACA, both things they allegedly claim they want. And you've got to be out of your goddamn mind if you think they'd face Democratic opposition to bills that did either of those things. So even if the shut down is exclusively the responsibility of the minority party that doesn't have enough votes on their own to block a bill, you still have to fundamentally recognize that we are in this situation because the Republican party has largely refused to govern. If anyone can come up with a compelling reason why CHIP shouldn't have been extended months ago when Democrats tried to get that vote done, I'd love to hear it.

Posted January 22nd by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

DACA and CHIP are both worth the shut down.

There's already a bilateral deal in place. The only one who's blocking it is Trump, because he happens to have Miller and Kelly in his ear. Hopefully Ivanka or some other moderate can push him into doing what's right, and they those two can get pushed out.

In the meantime, looking forward to this ending, I just sent in my resume to a Consulate job and can't get a response back until the appropriations bill is agreed on.

Posted January 22nd by Agis
Agis
 

"wanna place bets for how long until things get resolved?"

On or before Wednesday.

Posted January 22nd by Q
Q
 

Fucking Democrats. Sounds like they just caved and voted to reopen the government for three weeks on the "promise" of McConnell pushing for a DACA vote. How fucking stupid are they? They were *in* this mess because McConnell reneged on the promise of a DACA vote. And they got no real assurance that the House would go along with it either. We're going to be *exactly* in this same situation in three weeks' time. I get that it's important to keep the government open, but they're being played for chumps and all it took was a few days before they buckled.

Posted January 22nd by Jet Presto
Jet Presto

I can't wait for the tears when these DACA leaches are sent back to their shithole.

Posted January 22nd by #85
#85

Hell of a Christian you are.

Posted January 22nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

I'm going to New York for a holiday in 2 weeks. Will everything be shut? Will I be able to get into the country?

Posted January 22nd by Smiling Apple
Smiling Apple

their not leaches their people

Edited January 22nd by Brandy
Brandy

I can't wait for the tears when these DACA leaches are sent back to their shithole.


85, seriously, get your shit together. Do you remember the talk we had a while back about trying to present yourself in a way that doesn't get people to immediately disregard your opinions? When you say things like this, it comes off like you're a stupid troll that's just trying to get liberals butthurt. At best, acting like this will make you a useful idiot - for the other side. People like you get pointed out as an example of people like me. It fucks with the cause when an actual upstanding nationalist is lumped in with internet trolls, meme Nazis and ironic /pol/tards. Whether you mean to or not, you're hindering the cause every time you say something that I actually agree with and then surround it with a bunch of jacking off and shit-flinging.

You are the fucking leech here, attaching yourself to a noble cause so you can have a reason to act like a goddamn monkey to the other side. You need to either take the final step of evolution into being an intelligent human being or go back to whatever shithole site you came from before I physically remove you from this forum.

Posted January 22nd by nullfather
nullfather

Physically remove you from this forum


*Slow clap*

Posted January 22nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

I'm going to New York for a holiday in 2 weeks. Will everything be shut? Will I be able to get into the country?

even in the event of a shutdown, you should still be able to visit the country. some national parks might be closed (though i heard statue of liberty was still open), but that's about it. tourists shouldn't be affected too much.

Posted January 22nd by EN
EN

85, seriously, get your shit together. Do you remember the talk we had a while back about trying to present yourself in a way that doesn't get people to immediately disregard your opinions? When you say things like this, it comes off like you're a stupid troll that's just trying to get liberals butthurt. At best, acting like this will make you a useful idiot - for the other side. People like you get pointed out as an example of people like me. It fucks with the cause when an actual upstanding nationalist is lumped in with internet trolls, meme Nazis and ironic /pol/tards. Whether you mean to or not, you're hindering the cause every time you say something that I actually agree with and then surround it with a bunch of jacking off and shit-flinging.

Offering watered down kosher conservatism does nothing for the sake of the Overton Window. You say I am hindering the cause but I don't believe for one second that right wingers will stop being right wing as a result of the "extreme" right. From a strategic sense, voicing far right opinions normalizes those opinions. That's what Trump election has done. Moved the discussions further right. We still have much further to go.

Mexico is a very poor country essentially ran by drug cartels. What do you think is an accurate term to describe this place?

These DACA people, ARE leaches. People have EVERY FUCKING REASON to be pissed that these illegals can walk into the country, and not only be allowed to stay, not only be allowed to work without being verified, but actually get FREE FUNDING FROM THE GOVERNMENT. People used to riot (and in the cases of BLM, still do) over much less. People have become so domesticated that they have become absolute doormats of the system.

There is no way to nicely and civilly counter Jet Presto's Foreigner First policy. It is treason to the core. In what world is this shit ok? Make no mistake, these people aren't sympathetic to the plight of these people, rather, they want to add to their numbers. That's all it is.

I've seem Trump's demands and frankly I don't think its enough. Remember Trump campaigned on a "They have to go back" type policy so Jets citing of establishment-swamp Republicans that no one likes will hold no weight.

It's not trolling to have outside the mainstream beliefs.



Posted January 22nd by #85
#85

The majority of these DACA receipents were brought here against their will as children and have not set foot in their respective countries since. They are a far cry from being leeches.

These individuals aren't the rapist and killers Trump campaigned about get that through your neantherdal brain.



Edited January 22nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

It's not trolling to have outside the mainstream beliefs.

Null never said it was. It's how you present it.

Posted January 22nd by Fox Forever
Fox Forever

It's not trolling to have outside the mainstream beliefs.


Don't act stupid and don't play the marginalized victim card. I will stomp you into the fucking ground if you try to spin this.

Posted January 22nd by nullfather
nullfather

Don't act stupid and don't play the marginalized victim card. I will stomp you into the fucking ground if you try to spin this.

Right wing ideologies are censored all over the place. The dailystormer has lost something like 20 domain names (meanwhile check any Communist group and its all fine, really shows which side is system approved). Look at Zuckerberg, Twitter, Google, Youtube, any Silicon Valley platform and its nothing but censorship of the right wing. It's not "playing the victim", but reality. Pretty soon the furthest right allowed on the internet will be Mitch McConnell.

Those are my serious beliefs. They don't belong here. And they are going to go back. No sob story will change this. And if somehow a deal does get struck it will be with so long a pathway to citizenship that we cant get swamped over my a foreigner voting block (that voting block of which is already 15% and growing a million a year.)

Posted January 22nd by #85
#85

They don't belong here.

Nor do they belong to a country they haven't set foot in since arriving in the United States. These individuals have every right to be here. They've been educated here and have assimilated into our culture and society. The very things you argue that immigrants need to do and that's still not good enough? I would be worried about that immigrant voting block too if I was a racist POS.

Posted January 22nd by s.o.h.
s.o.h.
 

Nor do they belong to a country they haven't set foot in since arriving in the United States. These individuals have every right to be here. They've been educated here and have assimilated into our culture and society. The very things you argue that immigrants need to do and that's still not good enough? I would be worried about that immigrant voting block too if I was a racist POS.

We don't have to surrender our country over to prove that we aren't racist.

I don't believe a first gen immigrant can ever truly fully assimilate, under any circumstance. Thats why at all these DACA protests you will be hard pressed to find an American flag, and instead see nothing but the flag of Mexico.

We are a nation of laws, and they violated them. They "have been educated here" (i wonder how many of them, truly) only because our Communist (basically openly if you read his biography or listen to him talk.) predecessor President allocated funding to these ILLEGALS that would have been better spent on it's own.

They are going back. Tick tock.

Posted January 22nd by #85
#85

Right wing ideologies are censored all over the place.


Review what I actually said in my first response, stop diverting the discussion of your low-effort shitposting into other far-flung issues and make a decision about how you're going to improve your presence here.

This is not a debate. This is a warning. If you keep up the higher-quality style of your last couple of posts, that's great. Perfect. Just don't act like someone calling you out for shitposts is them persecuting you for your political beliefs. Take the L and move on.

Conversation over.

Posted January 22nd by nullfather
nullfather


I don't believe a first gen immigrant can ever truly fully assimilate, under any circumstance.

Does that include your ancestors? Because we both know that's a load of baloney.

are a nation of laws, and they violated

The full extent of the law does not always apply to children. Many of these e individuals were brought here against there will as children and were raised here. It's completely backwards to deport them we both know that. If they were white Europeans you would welcome them with open arms.

predecessor President allocated funding to these ILLEGALS that would have been better spent on it's own

Uh you do realized these individuals were educated in the K -12 system first and foremost right? Last I checked schools don't ask for citizenship status inost cases. Additionally DACA doesn't pay for these individuals to go to school. These individuals do not qualify for federal and of any kind


And it's been proven multiple times that Obama has deported more illegals than any other president before him and hdid more to secure our border than any president before him. Cut the communist crap.

The economy and the stock market saw unparalleled growth under Obama. And continued to do so in Trump's first year of office because of his policies. Aren't communist anti capitalist?

And lol if you truely cared about investing in our citizens and infrastructure you wouldn't have voted for Trump.

Posted January 22nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Also you are full of shit. You cant cry that its okay for you to fly the Confederate flag because "muh culture" and then get mad when other individuals do the same.

Do you share the same disgust when an irish immigrant flies an Irish flag?



Posted January 22nd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

You cant cry that its okay for you to fly the Confederate flag because "muh culture" and then get mad when other individuals do the same.


To be fair, if I thought that another country was so much better than America that I left America to live there, I wouldn't be flying an American flag there.

I also wouldn't fly a Confederate flag anywhere, because I never lived in the Confederacy. I did pick up a Texas flag patch today, though, and I plan on putting it on my vest.

Posted January 22nd by nullfather
nullfather

The Confederate Flag is an American flag.

Posted January 22nd by #85
#85

I don't live in America. I live in Texas.

Posted January 22nd by nullfather
nullfather

To be fair, if I thought that another country was so much better than America that I left America to live there, I wouldn't be flying an American flag there.


Its not about that country being better. Its about cultural pride. None of those individuals would argue that Mexico is better than the United States. Well maybe when it comes to healthcare :^)

The Confederate Flag is an American flag.


Bunch of cowards who turned their back on the Union.

Its not an American Flag. It is not representative of the United States. Real American's dont turn their backs on the Union.


Edited January 22nd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

Its not an American Flag. It is not representative of the United States. Real American's dont turn their backs on the Union.

There is nothing wrong with secession (it's what founded this country.)

Posted January 22nd by #85
#85

There is nothing wrong with secession (it's what founded this country.)


there is everything wrong with being prideful of enemies of the state. And oh please if a state attempted to Secede and incorporate views different from your own you would be throwing a bitch fit and rallying to put down the rebellion.



Edited January 22nd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

I'm trying to figure out how on earth anyone can - mathematically - blame exclusively or primarily Democrats on this one, and I can't figure it out.

The answer is actually very obvious: Republicans are stupid, and lack the ability to reason. That's why we're the only nation in the world without paid maternity leave with ridiculous healthcare costs powered mostly by the most inefficient energy resource in the world, and also why our government keeps getting shut down. That's also why Congress has a 20% approval rating but 93% retention rate.

Posted January 22nd by mariomguy
mariomguy

The answer is actually very obvious: Republicans are stupid, and lack the ability to reason.


Drop the blatant insults. Consider this your one warning.

Posted January 22nd by nullfather
nullfather

It is not representative of the United States. Real American's dont turn their backs on the Union.

didnt they turn their backs on the british crown? i guess they aren't real americans either

Posted January 22nd by Brandy
Brandy

didnt they turn their backs on the british crown? i guess they aren't real americans either

Yeah I'm not gonna attempt to break down the differences to you.

Edited January 22nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Yeah I'm not gonna attempt to break down the differences to you.

I don't want to derail this into the Confederacy topic, but I must respond to this. 2 of Robert E Lee's relatives signed the Decleration of Independence. The Confederate Congress even had former President John Tyler. Writings of Jefferson and Madison suggest they probably would have been Confederate sympathizers. It was every bit American (I'm not sure why you, as such a recent-arrival, would even be allowed to claim otherwise.) A lot of normal people were anti-union.

Posted January 22nd by #85
#85

I doubt they would have been sympathizers. The preservation of the union was far more important than the needs and wants of the plantation oligarchy.


Recent arrival

Well for one I'm not some one whose been conditioned to believe that the actions of the South were morally righteous.

It's 2018 properly educated individuals know better than to believe in the lost cause nonsense.

Also cut the recent arrival crap. I'm every bit as American as you. If that triggers you then you are more than welcome to leave the country. Comments like that are unneeded and do nothing to stimulate the discussion.

Edited January 22nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

i know there are differences, but by your logic, everyone country that rebels against their sovereign are un-(whatever country) they are from which just isnt true.

Posted January 22nd by Brandy
Brandy

Texas was annexed to the nation after defeating Santa Ana’s army and was at first it’s oen nation until Polk annexed it nullfather but it did become part of the confederate states since it was the number one slave state cause of the abundance of cotton in that state. Millions of slaves were needed to do weaving for cotton. But yes Texas was its own nation at first so you should blame Polk for annexing it to the USA.

Posted January 22nd by Weid manifest destiny
Weid manifest destiny
 

i know there are differences, but by your logic, everyone country that rebels against their sovereign are un-(whatever country) they are from which just isnt true.


yeah not going to bother. thanks.



Posted January 22nd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

what is there to bother? and your welcome??

Posted January 22nd by Brandy
Brandy

Couldn't give a lesesr shit if you end DACA at this point in time.

Posted January 23rd by Kaot0
Kaot0

I love how 85 tries to defend Confederate traitors.

Those motherfuckers profited off free labor for hundreds of years and went kicking and screaming when it was time to (begin to) do right by slaves. Fuck them.

On the topic of the shutdown, I have no issues with DACA. I think there is a hidden element of economic impact that's not being looked at. Dreamers actually do contribute a lot to this country and have assimilated into American culture without sacrificing their heritage (not that they should be forced to anyway).



Posted January 24th by Blazer72
Blazer72
 

@Smiling Apple: do you know what you're doing in new york yet? are you visiting anywhere else in the us?

Posted January 25th by EN
EN
Reply to: us government shutdown

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