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The PSL sucks!!!
Posted: Posted December 4th, 2019 by Cetasaurus
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So I learned last night (and don't tell anyone I told you this, because they have weird secrecy rule – but I'm not too concerned) that I'm not allowed to do organizing/activism outside of the PSL without consulting the committee, getting permission, and like pushing a PSL agenda in whatever I do. And I'm lowkey in trouble for what I've been doing in my personal time.

NOOOOooooooo!!!!!!!

I'm also not allowed to have opinions on things. I'm only allowed to parrot the party's stance on things.

Damn socialists and their plans.

I think I have to bail.

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There are probably better socialist parties (or socialist organizations within parties) you could associate with just not necessarily near you.

Posted December 4th, 2019 by Grey Echelon
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I thought this would be a hate thread on Pumpkin Spice Lattes.

Posted December 4th, 2019 by Fox Forever
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that sounds like absolute bullshit imo. i’d bail

Posted December 4th, 2019 by poptart!
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Ya looking it up again they seem to have marxism-leninism in their ideology section. While some insist marxism-leninism should be shown some respect and shit I say just avoid it when possible even if someone is a communist personally. It's really no surprise that they're doing this if they're even partially marxist-leninists.

Edited December 4th, 2019 by Grey Echelon
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I'm also not allowed to have opinions on things. I'm only allowed to parrot the party's stance on things.

That's the thing about echo chambers. If you enter a room where everyone expects to find agreement, disagreement will be met with hostility. Being broadly in favor of amnesty is one of my friendlier political opinions, but I'm not prepared to deal with the grief of taking it to a Republican county convention. But the other problem is that you're dealing with revolutionary socialists. You won't find a PSL chapter that's not like this, full stop. You're free to try, of course, though as their behavior towards you should surely demonstrate you would clearly not be free to organize politically were they the ones making the rules. That's the main difference between what we have and what they want.

Revolution is the overthrow of the government, and this revolution must be accomplished by open violence. How else is it supposed to happen? This contrasts revolutionary socialists with democratic socialists, the latter of whom think that the mechanisms of democracy are justification enough to give the state the authority to nationalize industry, confiscate property, and so on. Secrecy is paramount when it is the rule of law, and society as it currently operates, that you seek to undermine. That is what their goal is, to the extent that they have any goals beyond being edgy dissidents. Is it yours?

Edited December 4th, 2019 by Famov
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I actually think the problem is more the marxism-leninism element of it not so much the revolutionary socialist. But at this rate we may as well be having this discussion in politics & religion

This contrasts revolutionary socialists with democratic socialists


Believe it or not democratic socialists can also be revolutionary socialists as their methods aren't inherently limited to reformism but with democratic socialists you will tend to see the reformists more. Look into this if you don't believe me all that changes is they would skip the reformist process (which they may not consider fully democratic anyway) and establish democracy after the revolution.

Edited December 4th, 2019 by Grey Echelon
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@Grey – Yeah. There is, for instance, a local DSA chapter in town. To their credit, they just established an IWW chapter here. But there are aspects of socialism that I resent overall. I knew this going into the PSL. And yeah, PSL is super ML.

@Fox – Lol. In October I was doing so many double-takes when I passed coffee shops. "Comrade Starbucks?"

@poptart – Thank you for backing me up haha.

@Famov –

No, I do appreciate your clarity, experience, and perspective. Thank you. I know that this how the PSL operates universally, and I know the agenda they wish to push (I am being forced to learn it lmao).

I went into affiliation with them knowing what pieces they had that would help me in my personal development, as well as what they lacked – or what pieces I would cast aside. I guess the thing that I really should have anticipated was the constraints that came with opportunity.

If you enter a room where everyone expects to find agreement, disagreement will be meant with hostility.

Honestly, I've never openly expressed disagreement with PSL philosophy. I tell them what they want to hear (only when called upon), sometimes contrary to personal beliefs. I too didn't see the point in creating that grief for myself.

I was happy to play along – I even let them micro-manage me – because of the connections, resources, and experience I was gaining. Now that they are trying to macro-manage me, I gotta jump ship.

Edited December 4th, 2019 by Cetasaurus
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Cetasaurus
Formerly KM8

Yeah. There is, for instance, a local DSA chapter in town. To their credit, they just established an IWW chapter here. But there are aspects of socialism that I resent overall. I knew this going into the PSL. And yeah, PSL is super ML.


IWW should be be much better than PSL and it even can have anarchist elements. But even then are you entirely sure you hate aspects of it overall or do you just hate what people like them have told you socialism is? You could also look into like eco-socialism they tend to be fairly decent on not being oppressive here from what I've heard. Also libertarian socialists which I've brought up before. Just saying there are options though I bet IWW is the only realistic one for you. It's fine if it's just not for you.

I was happy to play along – I even let them micro-manage me – because of the connections, resources, and experience I was gaining. Now that they are trying to macro-manage me, I gotta jump ship.


I agree. As soon as things end up warped into "be a slave who questions basically nothing of a different kind" you know something is fucked.

Edited December 4th, 2019 by Grey Echelon
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Of course the day I post this I have to go do outreach with my PSL buddies. And I am reminded that I LOVE THEM SO MUCH. They are such nerds. Just a bunch of caring, nerdy communists. Out on the town.

Edited December 5th, 2019 by Cetasaurus
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Cetasaurus
Formerly KM8

Also thank you Grey. I'll think about it. I'm part of a different project in town (in addition to the PSL) and it's awesome. Maybe I will just focus on that and some personal endeavors.

Edited December 5th, 2019 by Cetasaurus
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Cetasaurus
Formerly KM8
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