Don't care for the title, although I suspect we will spend the next 8 months arguing about whether it will turn out that Rey is actually a Skywalker (I sincerely hope not), or if just the Light wins in large part from what Luke did at the end of the Last Jedi to inspire a new generation. Or, I suppose, it could be that Ben wins, but I suspect this isn't going to end on a very dark note.
I liked the North By Northwest teaser, though it reminds me that JJ Abrams is kind of incapable of an original thought.
by Jet Presto
>although I suspect we will spend the next 8 months arguing about whether it will turn out that Rey is actually a Skywalker (I sincerely hope not)
My suspicion is she'll get adopted into the Skywalker family by Leia.
That said, supposedly Hayden Christensen has been spotted on set and there's been a lot of rumours that an Anakin ghost would appear in this one so it's entirely possible that it refers to him in some way. Given it is the closing of a 9-part story I wouldn't be surprised to see characters or story elements of the prequels show up.
I just got caught up on the force awakens and the last jedi today and since I don't really have too much to say at the moment so I'll just say that I actually liked them and don't feel like quite a bit of the criticism was valid. So I'm basically optimistic about this too although it is weird that they're bringing Palpatine back even if I think that was a thing in the extended universe.
Dumb title, no idea what's happening in the trailer.
Also I guess ben is technically a skywalker so it's probably his rise.
>although it is weird that they're bringing Palpatine back even if I think that was a thing in the extended universe.
I'm thinking it'll just be for a cameo or short scene where he's a ghost.
Though if he were actually back it would be something for Ben and Rey to team up against and be part of redeeming him. If that's the way this is going.
Is this like some weird ploy to appeal to Prequelmemers after the negative online reception to TLJ?
by Orion Nebula
It looks okay. The TFA and TLJ were ok/good. Disney is going to make a lot of money. Did any one catch the redrawn trailer for their star wars game?
You mean Respawn?
Yea but it was just a load of cinematics that don't tell us anything about the game we didn't already know, I was hoping for something more substantial like actual gameplay footage.
I feel a little like if it turns out Rey is actually a Skywalker after all, or that Emperor Palpatine is back, I'm officially done with Star Wars.
It is kind of funny the way they've gone about this trilogy, with Abrams starting it, Rian Johnson making the sequel, and originally Colin Trevorrow set to do the third before bringing Abrams back. Each appears to have been given or would have been given some degree of creative freedom. So it's kinda long one continuous story that different filmmakers are building off of each other without totally planning anything together. It's kinda like one of those writing exercises where one person writes a line, then the next person writes a line off of that, et cetera et cetera. Which is a buck wild way to make a major billion dollar film franchise. But I supposed Marvel Studios has also kinda been doing that rather successfully, too.
Abrams has been given a next to impossible task. He needs to finish his own story, but build around where Johnson took it, while concluding the central story throughout the previous trilogies, without disowning one of them (since there are plenty of fans of the prequels) and being careful not to totally "kill" the originals (since there are plenty of fans who don't seem to understand that those movies don't stop existing and their childhoods aren't actually changed at all just because someone makes a new movie with those characters that you don't like).
I think he'll do fine, but I suspect he will make it too derivative to truly stand out. It's not a Star Wars movie if we don't at least see part of a Death Star, or yet another desert planet, I guess.
by Jet Presto
I think the difference with the Marvel stuff is that while there has been that central theme of the infinity stones and building to Thanos, the movies aren't connected in the sense that each one follows the story of the last. Even the individual hero movies are all self-contained stories and the next will use the character development of the last, but otherwise they're irrelevant to each other. The link between them is usually in a credits scene rather than the movie itself.
Whereas this Star Wars trilogy it's supposed to be a somewhat ongoing story, but that doesn't work if you just let each director do whatever they want. They should have laid out what they wanted to at the start and then told the directors to fit their films into that, even if it was only a loose idea.
The problem is Abrams and Johnson had two different ideas on what they wanted to do with the characters. Abrams even had a trilogy outlined when he created Awakens and I suspect that this movie he's making is probably going to be an adaption of his original plan, as best he can fit it around whatever Episode 8 changed for it, so there's going to be some oddities I would bet.
Also wrth noting Rey seems to have the Skywalker lightsaber again (or at least it looks like it to me) despite it being destroyed in the previous movie & Kylo is rebuilding his mask (though that probably makes sense for him anyway) so Abrams is definitely "undoing" things from the previous one.
Yeah. I mean, I'm kinda hopeful that he does have to adapt it around Rian Johnson. I think Johnson took the franchise in a substantially more compelling and interesting direction than Abrams seemed poised to do. Granted, we'll never really know for sure, but a lot of the set-up in The Force Awakens sure feels awfully much like the same old same old for Star Wars. And he could very well carry that on to some extent too. I mean, what a disappointment if it turns out that the Skywalker bloodline does matter after all, or that Palpatine is back, or that there is yet another Death Star weapon to bring down.
I'm also just not generally too sure I trust Abrams to actually finish things well when he structures them around the mystery box structure. I'm kind of at a loss for anything Abrams has been involved with that was strong from start to finish. So, if he has to course correct because of Johnson, then good. That's fine by me. Best of both worlds, hopefully.
by Jet Presto
If he does manage to make a cohesive film that is even just fine, that itself is kind of an impressive feat given all of the elements he has to work around. And I don't just mean the fact that Johnson took it somewhere different. In some ways, how much he respects or pays tribute to the previous trilogies is also a delicate balance for a fan-base that has kinda always hated the thing it loves. No one hates the Star Wars prequels more than Star Wars fans, after all. So what will those fans think if he pays tribute to them?
by Jet Presto
>No one hates the Star Wars prequels more than Star Wars fans, after all. So what will those fans think if he pays tribute to them?
Most Star Wars fans actually love a lot of what the prequels brought to the franchise though, it's just the films themseves they love to hate, so I don't think they would really have much of an issue with paying tribute to them.
After TFA, and especially after TLJ, I'm kinda just along for the ride and not particularly invested in where it ends. This trailer hasn't really swayed me one way or the other.
The title is genuinely awful, even if it'll probably make more sense in context. But that's par for the course with the sequels.
I'm willing to bet Palpatine's inclusion is a direct result of Snoke's (untimely, imo) death in TLJ. But weirdly enough, the idea of Palpatine being back is probably the most interesting part of E9 for me right now.
I hope that shot of the death star wreckage confirms the 'endor holocaust' theory.
If TFA and TLJ are anything to go by, Lando's return can only go badly.
by Count Dooku
=I feel a little like if it turns out Rey is actually a Skywalker after all, or that Emperor Palpatine is back
Rey being a Skywalker would a huge problem for me, but Palpatine is back in some fashion, we just gotta live with that.
There is a ton of backpedaling in this trailer, which is worrisome to me and may point to something stupid like Rey being a Skywalker. Kylo repairs his mask, Rey repaired her lightsaber, and now Palpatine's back.
Kylo repairing his mask at least makes some sense. Kylo Ren is very marketable, he probably sells a lot of toys, and it's honestly a pretty cool mask. But when you stop and think about it from Kylo's perspective, it seems very silly. Snoke literally makes fun of his mask, Kylo gets mad and destroys it, Kylo manages to kill Snoke, and now it's like a "hey, I'll show him, my mask was actually COOL!"
Rey repairing her lightsaber is more problematic. It's possible that maybe she'll still get a new one and they're saving that for the film as a surprise, but it seems unlikely. A new lightsaber is the type of thing you want to show off early and sell toys for, like Kylo's lightsaber. While I don't want an ROTJ retread, this is the type of thing that's okay to copy. Luke making his own lightsaber represented coming into his own. Rey deserves the same treatment.
And then there's Palpatine. Johnson wanted to kill off Snoke to set up Kylo being the big and final bad for 9, but apparently we can't have that, so we're just bringing back the long dead Emperor as the true final boss. I don't really see the point. I think if we can't have Kylo has the sole villain (and I'm not sure why we can't), I would have just preferred bringing back Snoke and revealing that he's Plagueis and has some secret to immortality. Even though that seems really trite, I don't understand how they can tie Palpatine in any way into the sequel trilogy. I'm sure the idea was "let's tie the entire franchise together!" but it ultimately makes the sequel trilogy feel *extremely* disconnected from one another, which is already a criticism some fans have. I'd rather have an obvious "twist" that at least feels connected and can build off the previous films instead of something completely out of left field.
We still don't know a lot, and I genuinely enjoyed the previous two films, so we'll see what happens. I'm most interested in the title, because there doesn't seem to be a clearly explanation for it. (Also I really don't think the title is bad in the context of Star Wars titles, as they're all pretty lame.) Kylo redemption is an obvious plotline that the title could reference, but it's a bit of a stretch to name him as a Skywalker for your title. Luke returning could make a ton of sense and I think would actually be really fitting, but the trailer itself contradicts this (not that JJ has a problem lying or misleading people in this marketing). And Anakin returning in anything outside of a Yoda-tier cameo is a massive fucking risk. So I dunno. There's rumors that the Jedi will be called Skywalkers and that's what the title is referring to, but that's legitimately the worst fucking fan theory I've ever heard and I may just puke in the theater if it happens.
by The Bandit
Luke coming back as a Jedi Ghost would be par for the course, and is almost certainly going to be what happens. The question seems to be more around how is Palpatine back? Is he gonna have some sort of Sith equivalent? I suspect (or hope, at least) that it is more about that.
I have to laugh at the analysis being about selling toys, because that is almost certainly a major factor in all these movies. But I actually think Kylo Ren taking on the mask again makes sense given the guy's general insecurity. Like that's his defining trait, really. He acts self-assured, but he really has spent the whole series doubting himself just as much as Rey did, but is headed down a different path. It could make thematic sense that following the events of TLJ, and with no more Snoke to order him around, he lets his anger loose while also still feeling that insecurity, and thus, returns to his first influence in Darth Vader. (Especially if Palpatine is to play some role in this.)
Rey fixing the lightsaber is more problematic simply because pretty much the big theme of TLJ was to move on. It wasn't to "kill the past," nor was it to forget the past. It was to respect it while moving forward, pretty much. I get the sense that they're maybe trying to shore up Kylo Ren as the Big Bad and Rey as the Pure Hero, so Abrams would want them to have their visual approximation to the originals. (Although even Luke had a new lightsaber in RotJ. Lucas might not have known how to direct or write films, but he sure could market toys.)
One aspect I *am* definitely looking forward to is that it appears the whole gang will be united. Kinda thinking back on it, and I'm not sure if there have been too many moments in which we've seen all our new characters interacting all as one group. That could be nice, as that should have been the focus of the trilogy itself, frankly.
As for Lando: I suspect that he'll be ok. I feel like they know it would just be a little too much to kill Han, then kill Luke, then kill Lando. Maybe they'll do a psych death, but I feel like they wouldn't bring him back just to kill him in the finale.
by Jet Presto
The more I think about it, the more likely it seems that the Palpatine thing might just be clever misdirection on the trailer's part. Given Kylo's Vader complex, it's possible he's moved on to studying Vader's master. Halfway wondering if Palpatine/Anakin will just be present as holocrons. Kinda fits with the 'no one's ever really gone' part in the sense that their teachings/knowledge might be living on in some way.
But JJ is kind of a hack so it's probably just a clone.
by Count Dooku
Weren't there tons of Palpatine clones in the expanded universe?
I don't remember it there were tons of them but there was definitely at least one, maybe two?
[quote]After TFA, and especially after TLJ, I'm kinda just along for the ride and not particularly invested in where it ends. This trailer hasn't really swayed me one way or the other.[/quote]
This is sort of where I'm at. I'm not all that excited about the series anymore and it's a little hard for me to pinpoint why, as I don't think either TFA or TLJ were [i]bad[/i] or anything, but they really just didn't grab me (the only new film I've really felt the urge to rewatch at all has been Rogue One). So...I'll probably wind up seeing this one in theaters? Maybe only if people that I trust tell me that they liked it, though--after all, I literally just watched Solo for the first time this past weekend, so I guess I'm not really a Star Wars superfan anymore. They're definitely going to make insane amounts of money, though--I'm actually pretty interested in seeing whether this one or Endgame makes more!
And yeah, I think there were two Palpatine clones in the EU. I didn't read those series, though, so I couldn't really tell you much about them--if memory serves correctly, I think they were in the comics?
by white lancer
I thought TFA and especially TLJ were great, but I'm not super-hyped about this movie or anything. It should be fun, and I'll definitely see it though.
That said, after the solo movie and especially rogue one I'm probably not going to go out of my way to see star wars spinoff movies anymore.
=I'm not all that excited about the series anymore and it's a little hard for me to pinpoint why, as I don't think either TFA or TLJ were bad or anything, but they really just didn't grab me
Yeah, they have their moments. But on the whole they just... didn't meet whatever nebulous expectations I had for a sequel trilogy? I was hoping that wiping away the old EU would give us a lot of room for fresh new stories. Instead we got Death Star 3, Empire 2, and a less threatening version of angsty Anakin.
=That said, after the solo movie and especially rogue one I'm probably not going to go out of my way to see star wars spinoff movies anymore.
Solo was absolutely mediocre, no argument here. But Rogue One is great. I'd easily rank it above the sequels and the prequel trilogy.
by Count Dooku
[quote]I literally just watched Solo for the first time this past weekend, so I guess I'm not really a Star Wars superfan anymore.[/quote]
I mean, SOLO was an unmitigated disaster. I'm not sure even "super fans" really liked it.
[quote]I was hoping that wiping away the old EU would give us a lot of room for fresh new stories. [/quote]
Ah man. I thought The Last Jedi was the freshest Star Wars movie made yet, for various reasons. I liked the way it built off of the original trilogies and Abrams' derivative starter to do something that we haven't seen a lot of in Star Wars. It's also one of the most interestingly shot and composed films, from a cinematic perspective. It has pacing problems and some tonal inconsistencies, but I really thought it was just a breath of fresh air to the franchise. (I might also argue that pacing problems and tonal inconsistencies are kind of a staple of the franchise overall. I really think only the original cut of A New Hope had near-perfect pacing and tone, really.)
[quote]But Rogue One is great. I'd easily rank it above the sequels and the prequel trilogy.[/quote]
I think it is the most wonderfully shot Star Wars film. Gareth Edwards really knows how to give things scale. I'll watch anything that guy makes, just for his shot compositions alone. I'm of the mindset that tales of Rogue One's greatness are a little overstated (for a film that's about a group of rogues banding together for an important mission, they seldom ever show up in the same scene together), but I did enjoy it quite a lot. I'd be curious to see if there are other cuts of the film, because it sure did seem like they changed a lot in post-production. I'm curious if it made it better or worse, or if they're all about the same quality.
by Jet Presto
=I mean, SOLO was an unmitigated disaster. I'm not sure even "super fans" really liked it.
I liked it just fine. It's nothing special, but I don't see it as a disaster either. It's just okay. I guess the beginning heist with the red shirts who get way too much screentime and then are never mentioned again approaches disaster levels though.
I don't get the Rogue One love. Rogue One is almost worst than the prequels for me. The first two acts are easily the most boring Star Wars has ever been The 2nd act is especially bad. The final space fight is fun, but I think it says a lot that I'm more interested in what's going on in space featuring characters with 5 total minutes of screen time compared to watching what our main protagonists are up to.
I also find the Darth Vader fan service to be fucking cringe tbh.
by The Bandit
[quote]Yeah, they have their moments. But on the whole they just... didn't meet whatever nebulous expectations I had for a sequel trilogy? I was hoping that wiping away the old EU would give us a lot of room for fresh new stories. Instead we got Death Star 3, Empire 2, and a less threatening version of angsty Anakin.[/quote]
Yeah, I definitely felt similarly. It also annoyed me that the new films as a whole kinda undid [i]all[/i] of the triumphs of the original trilogy, which renders their victories pretty hollow. Like, I understand that not everything was going to be peaches and cream for these characters post-OT, but it would have been nice if their victories or their relationships (either platonic or romantic) or [i]something[/i] had managed to endure, but...
I only watched Rogue One the once, but it definitely grabbed me more than either TFA or TLJ (or Solo, which I thought was mediocre and easily the worst of the new films). It's possible I'm overrating it based off that one watch, but it's the one film I'd happily watch again if I had easy access to it. I should probably rewatch TLJ before the next film comes out, but I feel like it'd be more of a duty than something I'd be excited to do. It's not like I think either that or TFA are bad films on their own, as they're clearly competently done (which is a few steps above the prequels at the very least), but they just don't grab me and I don't love some of the directions they took.
by white lancer
Rogue One also came out before TLJ, so the freshness of an interestingly shot Star Wars films has sort of died down a bit by then.
It should be noted, or might be worth noting at least, just the fact that all of these Star Wars films - regardless of narrative or thematic quality - have a lot more filmmaking elements to them than any of the originals or prequels. Even watching Solo, I was a little struck by how much better shot the film was than what George Lucas ever did. (The biggest crime, in my opinion, of the prequels is an unbelievably stagnant camera and horribly boring shots of just people standing and talking, sitting and talking, or just walking and talking.) As a fan of cinema on top of Star Wars, I appreciate that at least the directors today are doing somewhat interesting visual things with the franchise that we kind of haven't seen before.
by Jet Presto
Of all the new films TLJ is my favorite. It is not a perfect movie but I had a good time.