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Politics & Religion


World events, politics and whatever (especially whatever)
WARNING: Posts may contain offensive content and red wine
09/11/2001 WE REMEMBER

"Fear is the foundation of most governments." - John Adams

"My family is more important than my party." - Zell Miller


This topic came up in the other thread. How would you change America's criminal justice system? Also can we all agree that it's currently garbage?

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There are 31 Replies

I wouldn't say it's garbage.

But it's currently being headed by fringe conservatives at the DoJ and are totally out of step with contemporary America today.

One example is the criminalization of drugs, it's an ongoing problem today, and diverts attention and resources away from more important issues.

Posted June 22nd by Agis
Agis
 

For Profit Prisons are trash. Lets do away with those.

Posted June 22nd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

One example is the criminalization of drugs, it's an ongoing problem today, and diverts attention and resources away from more important issues.


Especially the criminalization of substances such as LSD, psilocybin and DMT, which are shown to have significant health benefits with comparatively small drawbacks. However, due to the fear and control implanted in American society by the government and by industries that profit from addiction and depression, there is a long road to walk in debunking the lies and manipulation surrounding them.

Edited June 22nd by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

It goes a lot farther than "the government".

It gets into our culture, which has a strong foundation of (mostly christian) moralizing of certain drugs and substances. Not to mention, drug use is heavily bound up in American fear of minorities, which leads to pressure by the electorate to enact stiffer criminal penalties in minority-majority areas.

Posted June 22nd by Agis
Agis
 

I focused on the government more than pre-existing underlying American morals specifically due to my focus on acid and mushrooms. When these substances were coming up in popularity, it coincided closely with the red scare. Particularly because classical hallucinogens are noted to produce more social thought, interpersonal connection, ego death, sympathy and even consideration for other living things to the point that some users outright became vegan (i.e. "a bunch of communist hippie shit"), you better believe that the paranoid U.S. government slammed the door on these drugs as hard as possible.

Your point is valid, however.

Edited June 22nd by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

Why overhaul it? Why not oust the current administration and work to just get everything back to the way it was? Well, that's exactly what we're doing, but when you want to impeach the President, you had better have every I dotted and every T crossed, and that takes time. Robert Mueller is currently doing precisely that. Have faith in him.

Posted June 22nd by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

End private prisons
Completely reform police training
Put bodycams on all cops/start punishing them harshly when they kill unarmed or fleeing people
End practice of cops being transferred to patrol in unfamiliar neighborhoods
Get rid of debtor’s prison (no reason to lock anyone up over owed money)
End the drug war by decrimimalizing ALL drugs
Free all nonviolent drug offenders from state and federal prisons

That’s just off the top of my head

Posted June 22nd by pacman
pacman
 

Put bodycams on all cops


And the footage should be treated as public record.

Posted June 22nd by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

The severity of punishment for drug possession in America seems absolutely insane to me. Having said that, the leniency of punishment in my own country seems equally insane (drug possession has been all but decriminalised in practise over here).

I think there should be more of an emphasis on rehabilitation in cases where criminality is relatively harmless. There is a big problem with minor criminals going into prison and coming out as major criminals. This really needs to be addressed.

But where criminality has had a major impact on the victim, especially in cases of violent crime, I believe the emphasis should remain on retribution. Without sufficient punishment there is no justice for the victim, and the concerns of the victim should be paramount in these cases.

Edited June 22nd by Smiling Apple
Smiling Apple

fire every single cop, hire an entirely new batch and train them right this time. and make sure they live in the communities that they're policing.

Posted June 23rd by poptart!
poptart!
 

I believe the emphasis should remain on retribution. Without sufficient punishment there is no justice for the victim,

ret·ri·bu·tion
ˌretrəˈbyo͞oSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: retribution

punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act.
"employees asked not to be named, saying they feared retribution"
synonyms: punishment, penalty, one's just deserts; revenge, reprisal, requital, retaliation, vengeance, an eye for an eye (and a tooth for a tooth), tit for tat, lex talionis, retributive justice;
redress, reparation, restitution, recompense, repayment, atonement, indemnification, amends
"officials condemned the bombing and vowed retribution"

Posted June 23rd by Psygnosis
Psygnosis

Fire every single cop


lol

Posted June 23rd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

i'm not wrong, S.O.H. police culture is garbage and that's the only way to do away with it. i would be willing to compromise and fire "almost every single cop" though

also, cancel every cop show

Edited June 23rd by poptart!
poptart!
 

Cancel every single cop show


Brooklyn 99 is the shit though


almost every single cop" though

a little better but not good enough. the number of good cops far outweigh the number of bad cops. I am all for holding them to a higher standard and have advocated for change in the pass. But "firing every cop" is sheer nonsense. A change like that has to start gradually. Starting with police training programs it is my understanding that there is no clear cut standard across the nation. Additionally body cams is a must, an investigation by the feds instead of internal affairs is a must, and the reopening and reinvestigation of police related shootings is a must.

we also need a complete restructuring of the criminal law and justice system. And need to push for community policing within our departments.

Posted June 23rd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

"Brooklyn 99 is the shit though"

haven't watched it, but we definitely don't need 8 more seasons of tom selleck feeding baber boomers propaganda with his moustache.

"But 'firing every cop' is sheer nonsense."

it was a joke, man.

i agree with mostly everything that you said, except for the good cops outweighing the bad cops. that way of looking at things is way too simple. the problem is with cop culture. they all have this fucked up "soldier" mentality (even the ones who haven't had any "incidents" yet).

also, i know this is anecdotal and meaningless, but i've met a lot of cops and they've all been assholes. if you get them drunk, they'll tell you how they really feel about "criminals."

"Starting with police training programs it is my understanding that there is no clear cut standard across the nation."

lol, my buddy who went to the "criminal justice program" in high school told me that the first lesson was this: they showed a video of a cop getting M16'd on the side of the highway and explained that an officer should always be ready to shoot.

Edited June 23rd by poptart!
poptart!
 

haven't watched it, but we definitely don't need 8 more seasons of tom selleck feeding baber boomers propaganda with his moustache.

Yeah you should really watch Brooklyn 99 it is nothing like that at all. Shit this is the first modern show that Ive seen that has a prominent openly gay character.

Posted June 23rd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

"Shit this is the first modern show that Ive seen that has a prominent openly gay character."

uh, i think will & grace beat it to the punch about 20 years ago

Posted June 23rd by poptart!
poptart!
 

they all have this fucked up "soldier" mentality (even the ones who haven't had any "incidents" yet).

That comes with the training.

also, i know this is anecdotal and meaningless, but i've met a lot of cops and they've all been assholes. if you get them drunk, they'll tell you how they really feel about "criminals."

I am sure I could get you drunk and you could rave about how you really feel about your job. It wouldnt make you a worse/bad technical writer for it.

Ive bitched and moan about my more challenging students/ fellow idiot educators while drinking. I dont believe that makes me a bad person.

And on the flip side every cop Ive had in interaction with has been nothing but professional, courteous and kind. Ive only encountered one ass hole cop. And even then some one else from that department talked to me and apologized for his attitude and chopped it up to a bunch of personal problems the cop was dealing with. Doesnt make it okay but I appreciate that another cop acknowledged the wrong of their partner.


lol, my buddy who went to the "criminal justice program" in high school told me that the first lesson was this: they showed a video of a cop getting M16'd on the side of the highway and explained that an officer should always be ready to shoot.


I dont necessarily disagree. Mostly because the first police ambush/killing in my city occurred less than a mile or two away from where I live. But there is a time and place for lethal force. And we do have many trigger happy police officers.

Posted June 23rd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

uh, i think will & grace beat it to the punch about 20 years ago


Thats great. I dont watch much TV. But I would imagine that "will" is a stereotypical gay man? The gay character in Brooklyn 99 is not. (For the most part) Like I said it is an entirely different show than what you are expecting. I think you would enjoy it.

Posted June 23rd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

Anyone who is too afraid of death or dangerous situations shouldn’t be a cop imo.

Also would like to point out that it’s not necessarily good apples vs. bad apples, but rather an institutional issue. It doesn’t really matter if most cops are good as individuals; in a system where an officer CAN abuse his or her authority, many inevitably WILL. This is basic logistics, and the same principle applies to many other issues. If we are going to revere our officers the way we are expected to, let’s hold them to a higher standard that actually makes them WORTH revering.

Posted June 23rd by pacman
pacman
 

Anyone who is too afraid of death or dangerous situations shouldn’t be a cop imo.


While I agree. I would like to also point out that end of the day you can think you are not afraid of death or a dangerous situation but you wont fully know until happens. A friend of mine always wanted to a cop. I did not hold my breath because I knew when it came down to it he would not be able to make the right call. He became a cop. Was a year into the force and guess what? he got fired because he did not make the proper call while on duty and put his life and the life of others in danger.



Posted June 23rd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

My experience with cops is about half and half -- half are arrogant assholes and the other half are professional and courteous. Having long hair as a man seems to worsen your experiences with cops, at least in my experience.

Posted June 23rd by Xhin
Xhin
 

While I agree. I would like to also point out that end of the day you can think you are not afraid of death or a dangerous situation but you wont fully know until happens. A friend of mine always wanted to a cop. I did not hold my breath because I knew when it came down to it he would not be able to make the right call. He became a cop. Was a year into the force and guess what? he got fired because he did not make the proper call while on duty and put his life and the life of others in danger.

Shit test them with actors lol.

For real though, cops should be trained to shoot less rather than more. Also what the fuck happened to nonlethal force?

Posted June 23rd by pacman
pacman
 

Take out for profit prisons and the three strikes law. Work towards rehabilitating prisoners back into the world over retribution. Revamp prison sentences, notably for non-violent criminals. Give them more time to spend time outside, better food, more life building skills and classes. Treating them better and offering meditation and gardening could do wonders.

As someone said before, make drug possession legal and spend money on rehabilitating addicts. We spend way too much of our budget for military reasons, and lots of it goes to waste. By diverting it to education and pnysical)mental health, and other areas, it would make the u.s. a better place to live.

Edited June 24th by ShadowFox08
ShadowFox08

I think the real question is: do you really want the criminal justice system rehabilitated? Or do you really just want them to leave you alone and let you do what you want? It's not "rehabilitating the justice system" if you simply want to indulge in your vices, saying, "I'm not hurting anybody. Stop arresting me. I'm not doing anything illegal in my opinion."

Posted Friday by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

I think the real question is: do you really want the criminal justice system rehabilitated?


Yes.

Posted Friday by Cruinn-Annuin
Cruinn-Annuin

  • Remove marijuana as a schedule I class drug
  • Remove mandatory minimum sentencing
  • Prioritize white collar crime and corruption charges over drug-related charges
  • Pursue people and corporations that break the law
  • Demilitarize the police: train for suicide prevention, deescalation, and non-violent resolution
  • Cut sentence lengths dramatically
  • Pursue other options before jail

  • Posted Friday by mariomguy
    mariomguy

    Suicide can’t be prevented, having know two people who have killed them self, and reading a lot about that 80% of suicide are moment decision. Also u can’t preach suicide prevention when the country you live in can’t really assure people a good livelihood

    Edited Saturday by Brandy
    Brandy

    Suicide can’t be prevented


    There are definitely techniques for engaging with a suicidal person to keep them occupied, distracted or to talk them down for the moment in order to prevent the momentary problem and then get them help.

    having know two people who have killed them self


    That doesn't make you an expert on suicide prevention.

    and reading a lot about that 80% of suicide are moment decision.


    If it's an in-the-moment decision, then momentary techniques should have a positive impact. A lot of suicide attempts are cries for help or attention, not just some person in their bedroom suddenly putting a gun to their head and pulling the trigger.

    Also u can’t preach suicide prevention when the country you live in can’t really assure people a good livelihood


    ...so, because things aren't the best, it's hypocritical to try to help people?

    I'm sorry, your post is just dumb.

    Posted Saturday by Cruinn-Annuin
    Cruinn-Annuin

    Sure you could talk to someone who’s about to jump off a bridge or something but that’s temporary and what does getting them help mean? Being put into a hospital doesn’t help you it just closes them in.

    It doesn’t make me an expert but it makes me know first hand about people who are suicidal. Which is more than What most people can say since sucide it still rare

    IMO failed suicide attempts are people who don’t really want to commit sucide , usually taking pills . Also taking a gun to ur head 9 times out of 10 usually doesn’t end up being called an attempt

    Yes it is hypocritical, I’ve never called s suicide crisis hotline because I’m not suicidal, but I seriously doubt the person on he other line of the phone can do anything to genuinely
    Help that person.

    Posted Saturday by Brandy
    Brandy

    Sure you could talk to someone who’s about to jump off a bridge or something but that’s temporary


    And you said that most suicide is in the moment. So which is it?

    Being put into a hospital doesn’t help you it just closes them in.


    Why do you immediately assume being put in an asylum?

    It doesn’t make me an expert but it makes me know first hand about people who are suicidal.


    Not necessarily. It's vague and anecdotal.

    Which is more than What most people can say since sucide it still rare


    Actually, suicide is one of the leading causes of death in the United States.

    Yes it is hypocritical


    Why is it hypocritical to try to make things better?

    You're acting stupid and you have no basis to speak on any of this.

    Posted Saturday by Cruinn-Annuin
    Cruinn-Annuin
    Reply to: Rehabilitating the criminal justice system

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