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Platformer Controls: Jake (Need input, Demo below!)
Posted: Posted Thursday
Edited Sunday by mariomguy

My favorite game of the 90s was Super Mario 64. It truly felt like a game where you could do anything, and the controls had everything to do with it. You could sideways-jump into a wall jump and reach high cliffs in no time at all! You could double jump, triple jump, backwards and even long jump, and even string combos. You could ground pound, punch, or slide on your belly. You could even run into a sliding kick!

I miss platform games that made you felt free like that. Sure, Super Mario Galaxy more or less has the same moves, but everything was so controlled. The levels could really only be run one way, and the jumping felt so constricted.

So, I'm making a platform game, Jake, that lets you do just that. More or less, this is going to be my spin on Mario's moveset with more physicality to the jumping and momentum. You can double jump, but the higher you fall to perform the jump, the more you'll bounce back. You can perform a floaty mid-air jump, but you can't change your direction much in mid-air, so you'll need to wall jump to safety. Wall jumping feels smooth and slick and painless: no sticking to walls, no weird timings to get right: if you're on or near a wall, you'll be reflected off, according to your angle. Running down a slope increases your speed while running up slows you down. And double jumping on a steeper slope will send you careening laterally as if bouncing off a ramp. Here is a list of controls:

Jump - Jump.
Jump, in mid-air - Mid-air jump (1 more follows)
Jump, after mid-air - Glide (stops a fast descent, converting it to a glide. You cannot gain altitude from here)
Jump, after glide - Sudden fall.
Jump after performing a jump - Double Jump (bounces off the surface. Angled surfaces will make you bounce toward the downslope, not straight up. Jumping from a higher location makes your double jump stronger)
Jump off a wall - Wall Jump (mostly a deflection that slightly increases verticality. Resets your mid-air jumps as well).

LMB Click - Quick Fall (increases gravity and makes you fall faster).
Jump after Fall - Increases Double Jump strength.

I tried adding moves that improved forward momentum, but they didn't work that well. I think a move where you dive down in front of you could be interesting, especially if you can perform a Double Jump afterward. But I need more ideas for moves that can work. Right now I only have two buttons: one to jump, and one to fall down.

Perhaps I'll post a video of the jumping mechanics. So far, it's actually really fun!

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There are 19 Replies

Speaking from playing Mario 64 I used the forward momentum moves all the time. I was constantly diving and long jumping everywhere I went lol. I think the interesting thing is if you add some kind of move that passive or actively increases the forward movement of the character then people will use it a lot. Not only is it very satisfying to do it but mentally people just want to go faster :P

Often in DK64 I would actually swap to Donkey or Lanky if I knew I was going to be moving a long distance and didn't need a specific Kong. Donkey because his attack while moving actually propels him forward a bit and Lanky because of the arm walk being faster. I often hated having to go any kind of distance with the others.

So my opinion would definitely be try to include something :)

LMB Click - Quick Fall (increases gravity and makes you fall faster).


You've probably already thought of this, but I'll mention it anyway. Is your character going to have attacks and if so will they be tied to LMB? If the answer is yes then if you want them to attack in the air you'd have to reconsider this keybind.

But I need more ideas for moves that can work. Right now I only have two buttons: one to jump, and one to fall down.


If you can't get a forward momentum ability in there then definitely consider adding something that just speeds you up for any sections of the game where the player is asked to move somewhere. It would probably need a new keybind separate from the rest.

Also since we are currently talking PC keyboard controls, I suppose you'd want a way to allow the player to move slower so that if you have any "tight rope" areas of platforming you can give the player the opportunity to take it slower and having tighter control when they want it. Obviously on phone & console this is easier to handle because of the joystick/virtual joystick.

Posted Friday by Moonray
 

I do have some programmed physics that make you feel like your moving faster the longer you keep your momentum going. The slope-based walking interpolates your current speed with your new slope, and if you continue running/jumping/whatever on a flat or declining surface it will continue to increase your speed. It does the opposite effect going uphill, but it's biased so you gain speed more readily and it takes a while to lose it. It feels very natural. I think people will be doing the mid-air jumps and double-jumps a lot. They don't take any planning to do and feel very nice.

Even though there isn't a move that's like "move forward," there are plenty of global mechanics that make you feel like your increasing momentum, and the more you push these extra moves the more that happens. It feels kind of God-like right now because it's all VERY forgiving. But I like that.

I'm not sure if I want an attack because I haven't decided on how enemies should behave, or even what kind of game this is, really. Collectathon? Adventure? My biggest inspirations are Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, and Tak and The Power of Juju. But it's all open world, there's no level select. Right now I'm just focusing on getting that movement right, and I think I've hit something that works really well. But it's not perfect yet.

Posted Friday by mariomguy
mariomguy

BTW, it will support gamepads for sure. But I'm currently testing everything with a mouse. You have better control over the camera with a mouse.

Posted Friday by mariomguy
mariomguy

Here is a video of the current control scheme. Please let me know what you think! @Moonray

http://www.youtube.com/v/8MI3PJRKd_0
Posted Friday by mariomguy
mariomguy

Cool, I'll look later when I'm on my PC.

Posted Saturday by Moonray
 

as feedback goes, would it be plausible to release some kind of sandbox-y movement demo at some point? Just an open playground like in the video to play with movement, no need for story or objectives (possibly some test enemies if you reach that point).

you can get some idea out of a video, but actual hands-on familiarity does a lot more. Like, of course you can do what you wish and know how it handles and all that, but what about someone else picking it up for the first time? I can see you showcasing the MC's ability to do what you want, and it looks like you've got a nice degree of freedom, but I can't necessarily tell how it'd respond to what I might want if I'm only watching, y'know?

Posted Saturday by Pirate_Ninja

Hmm, when I tried to go to that address it doesn't work fr me. Also GTX0 doesn't seem to have turned it into a proper link either.

I would agree with PN though, if you didn't mind releasing a basic demo that'd be a lot better to provide feedback on

Posted Saturday by Moonray
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MI3PJRKd_0&index=22&list=PLw5kmciG49ZWw4y15g7IETTjD5BiCUIBV&t=0s
I'll try to export an EXE that doesn't contain the entire game. At this point, there's a lot of extra content that doesn't need to be there.

Posted Saturday by mariomguy
mariomguy

neat, it'd be interesting (and hopefully helpful to you) if you can manage that


Hmm, when I tried to go to that address it doesn't work fr me. Also GTX0 doesn't seem to have turned it into a proper link either.
from what I can tell it's a direct link to the video (the kind that tells your browser "hey, download this video")

I just took the part after /v/ and plugged it in at the end of a normal url after watch?v= in order to see it. The new one mguy posted should work too - it just has the added shit to make it part of a playlist.

Posted Saturday by Pirate_Ninja

OK, I have a functioning test map! Some things to note:

  • Swimming animations not included yet!
  • Stamina meter not functional yet (the swirling icon above Jake's head)!

    WASD - Move
    Space - Jump
    Left Click - Fast Drop
    Right Click - Open Menu
    Escape - Quit

    To install, just extract the folder and double-click Jake_Project420.exe. If the game doesn't run smoothly, open the menu and change the graphics settings. Dynamic resolution doesn't work yet, but all other settings do. The game defaults to desktop res @ Ultra, so if it already runs smoothly don't mess with it. Just opening the menu will knock back most of the settings to high and try to maintain a max resolution. From there, reduce the resolution until the game functions well. Only people with integrated graphics should really fret about this.

    Let me know what you think!
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4tyec0v0u0z4vbv/JakeTest.zip?dl=0

  • Posted Saturday by mariomguy
    mariomguy

    @Moonray
    @Pirate_Ninja

    I posted the demo! Hope you guys get the notification.

    Posted Sunday by mariomguy
    mariomguy

    I did. Sorry my PC is unplugged at the moment while we have some work done in that room. Probably wont be able to get back on it until Friday.

    Posted Monday by Moonray
     

    and I didn't get it, but I did already have your demo downloaded. Just wanted to spend a fair amount of time playing with it before offering feedback, so I can try different stuff and get a bit more comfortable-ish with it. I'll hopefully get back to you tonight with something.

    Posted Monday by Pirate_Ninja

    @mariomguy you have to either put a colon after the user your are tagging or use [@] tags around the name to show up in someone's notifications.

    Posted Monday by Vandy
    Vandy

    Let me try:

    @Vandy@
    [@]Vandy[@]
    @Vandy:

    Which one works?

    Posted Monday by mariomguy
    mariomguy

    The bottom one worked.

    The second will work if you change the end tag to [/@].

    Edited Monday by Vandy
    Vandy

    Cool!

    ...So, did anyone actually try the demo?

    Posted Monday by mariomguy
    mariomguy

    ya dode I wasn't kidding

    thought of one more important thing I want to try, though, and I can't do that until tomorrow morning. I'll have feedback then - just trying to make it as accurate as I can.

    Posted Very Early Yesterday by Pirate_Ninja

    ok so here are some thoughts - for convenience, I'll treat them like responses to the topic post

    You can double jump, but the higher you fall to perform the jump, the more you'll bounce back.
    yup, made sense to me and worked fairly well. I wasn't totally consistent in doing it right, but pretty comfortable and I think it's probably largely just a personal preference thing based on the spacebar being the jump button.

    also I swear it happened but I'm not sure how and I was unable to duplicate it - one time while fooling around with doublejump and fastfall, I got a really high jump that seemed unintentional. Like...you know that spot where you have two walls of blue/white blocks, which looks like it's meant to test walljumps? I was between those walls, jumping/doublejumping/airjumping and fastfalling in place, and one time I managed to launch myself off the ground all the way up to the top of those walls in a single doublejump. As in, I cleared the top of the wall and was able to steer myself sideways a little and land on top of it, having started on the ground. I'm guessing I did something that made the game think I hit the ground with a ton of momentum worthy of a huge doublejump, but I couldn't get it to happen again. Seemed odd, figured it wasn't meant to be.


    You can perform a floaty mid-air jump, but you can't change your direction much in mid-air, so you'll need to wall jump to safety.
    midair jumps are a Big Thing for me, loved 'em ever since my friend brought over a copy of Super Ghouls n' Ghosts (where the jump controls are super stiff and unforgiving, but the fact that you have a midair jump gives you some weird added control/maneuverability that's kinda fascinating). Carry that forward to 2018 where I play Ribbon Girl in ARMS (cutest character + 3-4 midair jumps, obvious choice of main ever since the first demo) and light up like a Christmas tree when I find the Feather in La-Mulana 2.

    as such, I was doing it constantly in your demo, and I liked it. Part of the reason for that, though, is that the jump height honestly felt too low on its own and I constantly needed that added height. Maybe it feels that way partly because of the demo landscape - those big blue/white blocks are sitting around like big stairs, but they felt a little awkward to use that way because it took both jumps just to get up one. I think I'd test increasing the height of the first jump, but keeping the airjump as a smaller boost/correction tool (as opposed to making it just as strong as the initial jump).


    Wall jumping feels smooth and slick and painless: no sticking to walls, no weird timings to get right: if you're on or near a wall, you'll be reflected off, according to your angle.
    ok, this is where I was lost. At first, I thought the demo didn't have walljumping for whatever reason because I couldn't get it to happen. But then I started accidentally ricocheting off walls every so often, so I figured it must be there. But I still can't get a feel for how it works or do it consistently. I assume I'm doing something wrong, since I don't actually know the mechanics or w/e - could you briefly explain what I should be doing? When I can and can't do it, how to do it, that sort of thing. Maybe I'm expecting something different than what you planned, based on other games I've played. I want to go back and try it.


    also the free camera is generally nice and works well (an option to zoom out a bit would be nice), but it does a bit of obnoxious autopiloting in some circumstances. For instance, when I was trying to work out walljumping between those two walls, I turned the camera for a side view so the walls are on the left/right of the screen and I just moved left and right between them - but colliding with a wall would typically spin the camera around 90 degrees and zoom in close (a really bad angle for what I was trying). It'd be good for it to...not do that, whatever it seems to be compensating/correcting for.


    going to think a bit about your question of a "forward momentum move" type thing, but wanted to give you that much now. I'm p sure there was another thing or two I had in mind that I forgot while typing, so if it comes to me I'll be back with it. Let me know if you had any specific questions I could try to answer.

    Posted Last Night by Pirate_Ninja
    Reply to: Platformer Controls: Jake (Need input, Demo below!)

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