Thread/Post Collection PluginSite rules change (mostly the result of the petition)
GTX0 AnnouncementsFeedbackHelp | SandboxNewest Posts | Replies | Hottest
NIFE UpdatesRoadmapRequests | HelpDiscuss Game Worlds



This update adds a large system that assigns points to users known as "Merit" on both a site-wide and individual forum basis. Right now this is only measuring post contributions (but it's got some pretty thorough rules for that), but in the next week I'd like to hook a lot more into the feature.

At the moment you can view merit by clicking the "Merit" link in newest posts / replies to see sitewide merit, or clicking the "Merit" link in a specific forum to see the merit rankings there.

Here's a long list of all the things that add merit:

Basic Stuff

  • Making a new post or reply -- +5 merit

    All other merit bonuses are added on to this in a rolling, cumulative way.

  • If you post in NGVS, you earn an extra +25 merit.

  • Posting in a "promoted post" earns you an extra +20 merit. Promoted post titles appear green, and I've added them to the mod tools. I'm going to give the mods some advice towards them in my next post.

    Reply length bonuses

    Again, these are rolling cumulative bonuses.. you can earn more than one bonus at once.

  • If your post is greater than 500 characters, you earn +10 merit.

  • Greater than 1000 characters and you earn +15 merit

  • Greater than 2000 characters and you lose 7 merit (so at this point you'd lose half the bonus from the >1000 character bonus)

  • Greater than 5000 characters and you lose all reply length merit as well as the base reply merit bonus.

    Somewhere between 1000-2000 characters is what I'm arbitrarily setting as the "ideal post length" because those types of posts are easy to reply to. Posts that are very very long are difficult to read through and work better if you split them up (it gives people a chance to reply while you're working on another piece of the post).

    First reply bonuses

  • If you get the first reply to a post that isn't yours, you earn an additional +10 merit.

  • If the post hasn't had any replies for 24 hours, you get an additional +15

  • 48 hours, and +5 on top of that.

  • 72 hours, and +5 on top of that.

  • If the post hasn't gotten any replies within a week you don't get any first post bonuses at all.

    The goal here is to prevent 0-post replies, particularly 0-post replies in NGVS where a good reply can net you 80-90 merit.

    Thread Bonuses

    If you make a post, you can earn merit depending on how many replies the thread gets.

  • 5 replies -- +10 merit
  • 10 replies -- another +10 merit
  • 20 replies -- another +20 merit
  • 50 replies -- another +30 merit
  • 100 replies -- if your post hits this, you'll earn +2 merit per reply

    Future plans

    This system is going to be implemented into a pretty wide array of things -- making deathmatches, participating in streams, having people like your posts, bonuses for doing work on a GTX0 team. Individual point values will probably be tweaked a lot over time. I'll have a place somewhere that shows values for everything and when things change.

    I'd also like to integrate into the actual "new reply" area a widget that tells you how much merit you can earn for posting.

    Dooku has suggested integrating this system into the upcoming MyCons system, which makes sense.

  • settingsOptions
    There are 69 Replies

    Who is going to take the time to bother keeping track of this? Or will it happen automatically for signed in people?

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    It happens automatically whether you're signed in or not. Here's the global one for example:
    http://gtx0.com/merit.php

    Posted September 12th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned

    Dunno how to feel about this exactly. When I was 14 and part of another forum I would post like hell all day long because it got my post count up. I hope we don't get too many "worthless" replies out of it (admittedly this is what I did to increase post count). Does this also have anything to do with being less harsh on bans or increased warnings?

    Posted September 12th by Fox Forever

    If anything it might encourage us to look at our short crappy replies and add some more or better quality content.

    I just edited two of my posts in VGND

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    I think I may have accidentally liked this post upon entering somehow while checking thread views.

    I honestly really don't like where this idea may lead very much but the most obvious criticisms are this:

    First reply bonuses


    This is how "FIRST POST" posts happen.

    Reply length bonuses


    This is a bad idea at least for the world forum especially since it's removing merit because this is kind of discouraging really in-depth discussion. I mean I get it lengthy posts can be annoying for some but when you're actually trying to have meaningful discussion about complicated issues it can happen. It's worth asking though if words within quotes count because that would make it even worse.

    you can earn merit depending on how many replies the thread gets.


    The problem with this is that a lot of posts end up getting replies because something controversial was said. This happens in both world and the video game forum.

    While these issues could be solved with moderation I feel like it sets a bad precedent.

    Basically this feels like an attempt to be a different kind of reddit which I don't like for several reasons. It can sometimes give the impression that because some people actually bothered to like someone's post (while others don't care to or want to even if they like it) or post a lot or happened to make an active thread they have more value than others.

    Posted September 12th by KnokkelMillennium

    This is how "FIRST POST" posts happen.

    Mods should delete those posts and take away the points.

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    This is how "FIRST POST" posts happen.

    Good point. I'd hope people are better than that around here. Leave it to mods to delete bullshit like that.

    This is a bad idea at least for the world forum especially since it's removing merit because this is kind of discouraging really in-depth discussion. I mean I get it lengthy posts can be annoying for some but when you're actually trying to have meaningful discussion about complicated issues it can happen.

    I get not needing a giant wall of text. 2000 count seems like it would be a good point to end on. I'd suggest some kind of character counter so that we can see when something is too insane. Looking at my own replies I have no clue how many characters I have typically.

    It's worth asking though if words within quotes count because that would make it even worse.

    Yes, I agree. I shouldn't even get points for quoting you at 200+ characters for example.

    Posted September 12th by Fox Forever

    I don't like this. I don't like any kind of feature that rates a user or a post.

    Knuckles assessment that it assigns more value to certain users is accurate. It also doesn't do so very well because someone like Jet Presto who makes looooong but well thought out replies gets penalised for doing so.

    Posted September 12th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    I get not needing a giant wall of text. 2000 count seems like it would be a good point to end on. I'd suggest some kind of character counter so that we can see when something is too insane. Looking at my own replies I have no clue how many characters I have typically.


    It legitimately can take away from discussion. Sometimes people need that wall of text to really get their points across or cover every detail. A limit would be even worse and would just result in another post afterwards or the discussion being watered down just for the sake of respecting the limit.

    Posted September 12th by KnokkelMillennium

    So I just cheated my way to the top of the list.

    Does this mean I am the most important member of the site now?

    Posted September 12th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    Ya I looked at the merit system 2 times now and I have no idea how people are where they are already or why

    Edited September 12th by KnokkelMillennium

    I wondered how you did it Moon

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    Well I cheated so ignore my score.

    The real top 2 (ikm and fox) I'd guess is because they were posting replies of a good character length to earn legit scores.

    Posted September 12th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    Knowing LLight I would assume he's intentionally done bad replies to get his score down.

    Posted September 12th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    Well I cheated so ignore my score.

    Reverted.

    I just want to point out that getting your posts tagged/deleted makes you lose all the score you earned in addition to 10 extra per post. I didn't do it this time however.

    Posted September 12th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned

    Knowing LLight I would assume he's intentionally done bad replies to get his score down.

    It's kind of his job to break things.

    Posted September 12th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned

    I did a post that was > 4000 characters, it did -14, and then deleted it. Nothing special. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Posted September 12th by LLight

    Aww my score :(

    Posted September 12th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    I did a post that was > 4000 characters, it did -14, and then deleted it. Nothing special. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    My math was a bit off on the > 5000 character thing (mostly because I changed the other values multiple times). Also reverted and fixed.


    Posted September 12th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned

    I just want to point out that getting your posts tagged/deleted makes you lose all the score you earned in addition to 10 extra per post. I didn't do it this time however.

    What if it gets tagged because the original reply you replied to was tagged and it was erased just to delete the path?

    Edit: This happened earlier today where I replied to someone and their reply was tagged so mine was too because I responded to their reply.

    Edit 2:

    The real top 2 (ikm and fox) I'd guess is because they were posting replies of a good character length to earn legit scores.

    Yeah we're discussing stuff between each other. I'm not looking to try and earn, just wanted to keep a good discussion going.

    Edited September 12th by Fox Forever

    When I was 14 and part of another forum I would post like hell all day long because it got my post count up.

    That can't possibly be a bad thing for the site.

    I hope we don't get too many "worthless" replies out of it (admittedly this is what I did to increase post count).

    Getting your posts tagged makes you lose your post merit and some extra. Getting banned really really impacts your merit. There will also be some more safeguards in place once the next batch of merit features are released.

    Does this also have anything to do with being less harsh on bans or increased warnings?

    I'm not sure what you mean here. If anything we're being *more* harsh on bans and warnings.

    This is a bad idea at least for the world forum especially since it's removing merit because this is kind of discouraging really in-depth discussion

    It did for LLight, but it's not supposed to actually remove merit for long posts, it just doesn't earn you any for post length.

    What I'd like to encourage instead is splitting large posts into smaller chunks. This does things like allows people to reply to your wall of text *while* you're making it, which helps keep discussions active. You can also earn quite a bit of merit if you do that right, which will be easier to track oncce I have a tool that shows character count in there.

    It can sometimes give the impression that because some people actually bothered to like someone's post (while others don't care to or want to even if they like it) or post a lot or happened to make an active thread they have more value than others.

    Which is why the things that are acutally valued with the merit system are things that I personally value at any given time. Games discussions, longer (but not too long) posts, replies to lonely posts, etc. As I embed the system deeper into the site it will incentivize submitting post icons, reporting bad posts, participating in streams, responding to a feedback post, or whatever else I value at the time.

    Knuckles assessment that it assigns more value to certain users is accurate.

    That's actually the goal here. To codify a person's "value to the site". Coming up with the right implementation will take a lot of tweaking.




    Posted September 12th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned

    Also I forget. What is "NGVS"?

    Posted September 12th by KnokkelMillennium

    The video game forum, which has apparently been renamed as many times as P&R:
    http://gtx0.com/index.php?forum=Wii%20vs%20PS3%20vs%20XBOX360

    Posted September 12th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned

    I'm not sure what you mean here. If anything we're being *more* harsh on bans and warnings.

    Person with high merit = more lenient on a ban/less likely to be banned for the same infraction as a person with low merit.

    Posted September 12th by Fox Forever

    I am more likely to ban myself than to have the staff need to ban me. lol

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    Person with high merit = more lenient on a ban/less likely to be banned for the same infraction as a person with low merit.

    Provided the system works right, I'd like to use it to replace my often-arbitrary favoritism with something more tangible. So yes, but not until it's embedded deeper and there are more safeguards against exploitation.

    Same deal with staff positions as well. Though those probably won't come up again for a long time.

    Edited September 12th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned

    I'm very wary of internet points (seeing what a circlejerk places like Reddit and Imgur become), but if this is just being used as reputation and doesn't effect the structure of forums or threads, I have no problem with it.

    Posted September 12th by Cruinn-Annuin

    but if this is just being used as reputation and doesn't effect the structure of forums or threads, I have no problem with it.

    I have no plans to rank threads or replies by anything whatsoever.

    Posted September 12th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned




    That can't possibly be a bad thing for the site.
    your sarcasm tags are missing


    This does things like allows people to reply to your wall of text *while* you're making it,
    as someone with a history of both really short and really long posts, I find this a nightmarishly confusing way to fuck up a conversation. I don't want half of my reply to continue ahead of the other. Especially if it leads off on tangent that would've been addressed (or prevented) by the part that hasn't been posted yet. If there's anyone else in the thread, I might not even get around to finishing my original thought because suddenly I need to address where the first part of the previous thought went.

    in practice, if you implemented this shit (and I felt compelled to care about the points), I'd just write the entire long post in notepad, check its total length, and then make multiple replies in quick succession to prevent that kind of confusion and interruption. Which would not only circumvent the apparent purpose of the long post penalty, but quite possibly reward me for doing it.

    Posted September 12th by Pirate_Ninja

    What I'd like to encourage instead is splitting large posts into smaller chunks. This does things like allows people to reply to your wall of text *while* you're making it, which helps keep discussions active. You can also earn quite a bit of merit if you do that right, which will be easier to track oncce I have a tool that shows character count in there.


    As long as you don't make this a negative, I don't care. I'm still going to make long as fuck posts whenever I feel the need to.

    Posted September 12th by Cruinn-Annuin

    Honestly if you just post without thinking about it and you give good content on a regular basis you're going to have a lot of points. Whatever that does for you.

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    oh also I forgot

    That's actually the goal here. To codify a person's "value to the site".
    maybe it's just me but I find this to be a really gross sentiment. Particularly when it's expressed this way.

    Posted September 12th by Pirate_Ninja

    It is effective though as long as it's modded properly. You can objectively see who is keeping the site afloat with content.

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    Yeah, internet points are almost invariably cheesy. I think that they can be used as a quick and dirty approximation, but the actual value should only take points as one variable in the equation.

    Posted September 12th by Cruinn-Annuin

    No system is perfect after all. But the idea is in the right place.

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    And, of course, I understand that the system will be refined after we see it in use.

    Posted September 12th by Cruinn-Annuin

    Can we unban poptart now? What he did was terrible but he did it to a member who is in exile.

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    No system is perfect-exactly the reason why have competition for gaming!

    Posted September 12th by Weid man

    You can objectively see who is keeping the site afloat with content.


    Not really. I mean I guess it helps potentially drive more traffic to the video game forum but the large points that come from that aren't really what keep it afloat, it's just what keeps more video game related content coming in. You also get extra points for posting in a "premium thread" which doesn't really say anything about overall contribution. You also get more points for longer posts so long as they aren't too long which really doesn't inherently say anything about contribution.

    Basically people who do rather specific things will just have higher scores regardless of if they are actually doing more.

    Edited September 12th by KnokkelMillennium

    I see what you're saying, but one thing is true. If you're creative and you make threads, and you show initiative and interest in other threads, the points will show that you're contributing. You might be able to game the system a little bit. But an honest person who doesn't game the system but contributes in those ways is still going to be seen as a high value member by the points.

    Posted September 12th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    I'm worthless

    Posted September 12th by Vandy

    I'd gift you some merits =^)

    Posted September 12th by Fox Forever

    Say we win something for the most "merits" by the end of the month, and that winner gets access to colored texts, etc. But, if someone goes against the rules, they lose that opportunity. There's gotta be some kind of balance. Otherwise, it's pointless.

    Posted September 13th by Castrael

    maybe it's just me but I find this to be a really gross sentiment


    Looking at this thread again I feel like specifically saying that I agree. This idea may have had merit but it's one that I think should be scrapped because it may do more harm than good.

    And, of course, I understand that the system will be refined after we see it in use.


    That won't help though because it's fundamental problem is that it attempts to assign more value to specific users who do specific things. Imo there is no way to fix that. Also it's somewhat ironic that it is adding merit to me while I'm saying that I don't like the merit system don't you think?

    Edited September 13th by KnokkelMillennium

    Also why does a smaller post agreeing with me get 2 likes but I get none? This already shows a flaw in this system. The inevitable baseless favoritism. How do you think people are going to feel about people doing what just happened here to me? They would probably feel rejected by the community as a person. If one person saying the same basic thing gets a like (which this merit system is encouraging) but another who said it first doesn't why wouldn't that be interpreted negatively?

    Also is it going to seem like I'm just trying to get more merit now that I made a post after I already posted? Because I've been doing that before this.

    Edited September 13th by KnokkelMillennium

    he mentioned possibly tying in the like button at some point, but as I understand it's not related yet. After all, it's a separate opt-in feature that I'd guess some people aren't even using.

    as someone who "liked" that post, it was mainly just that it was at the end of the thread (at the time) and my initial inclination was just to echo what he said. After I formed some real independent thoughts on the matter, I made an actual reply. I don't hit the button every time I agree with a post (that'd look bad and devalue the priceless currency that is my affection), and I like the fact that the feature is just for show because it means I don't feel any need to think about the way I use it. Sometimes somebody makes a really good point, sometimes they make me laugh. Just, y'know...whenever.

    Posted September 13th by Pirate_Ninja

    I figured, but that's the impression it can give and that is kind of the problem with this and potentially the like button on a forum. It can work decently on social media because that is a different dynamic but it's not always particularly good for a forum.

    Edited September 13th by KnokkelMillennium

    How do you like posts here anyway?

    Posted September 13th by Drunkle Qrow

    On the "Posted Half an Hour ago" line at the bottom of a reply go right and it says "Edit....Filter....Report....LIKE"

    Posted September 13th by Fox Forever

    Iirc, you have to toggle it on in your user CP first.

    Posted September 13th by Cruinn-Annuin

    Mine is just there by default. I've done nothing to my user CP except for my posting pic.

    Posted September 13th by Fox Forever

    Knuckles assessment that it assigns more value to certain users is accurate.


    That's actually the goal here. To codify a person's "value to the site". Coming up with the right implementation will take a lot of tweaking.


    It's a bad goal because you're feeding false information to people. Consider this situation:

    User A makes posts that meet the criteria to get lots of points but the content of what they're posting isn't great.

    User B makes posts that don't often meet your criteria to earn points but the content is great.

    User C makes posts that meet the criteria to get lots of points and the content is great.

    You can never make a system that fairly judges theres 3 people.

    A and B instantly clash and if you make the criteria wide enough to incorporate them both you make it too easy. The criteria becomes irrelevant.

    But if you tried to base it on content then user C losses out and is less encouraged to use the posting habits you want.

    If you base it on both then A and B become equal even though B is arguably contributing better stuff to the site.



    But also as I said I just really dislike anything that rates a person. It's not fair and it's morally wrong (imo at least). Everyone can determine for themselves what a person is like, we don't need an algorithm to tell us, especially when it can be wrong.

    Also why does a smaller post agreeing with me get 2 likes but I get none?


    I'm just so likeable. Don't try to understand it, Dooku has been trying for over a decade. Just accept it as the one truth of the universe.

    Posted September 13th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    I just really dislike anything that rates a person.


    Hey who said #7 could speak!?

    Edited September 13th by Fox Forever

    S.O.H. NUMBAH ONE


    I don't care for any if this. I will continue to post with out being a dick and move forward with my life.

    Happy Thursday!

    Posted September 13th by S.o.h
    S.o.h
     

    I have footage of the moment the merit system was turned on:



    Posted September 13th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    I don't care for any if this.


    Caring has been oddly counter-productive lately it seems.

    Posted September 13th by KnokkelMillennium

    Why not just have a Reddit-style upvote/downvote system?

    Posted September 13th by Agis
    Agis
     

    Because opinions and posts shouldn't have to be judged based on whoever decided to downvote them for whatever reason (which isn't always a good reason). They should be judged with words and reason. And judging based on votes alone is what tends to happen with that system. Upvotes are "important" and downvotes are "very bad". True it has some worth and can help more useful posts be at the top but it also doesn't always end well. That sort of thing isn't what we need right now especially the downvotes.

    Also because he wants to encourage users to start doing specific things.

    Edited September 13th by KnokkelMillennium

    Why not just have a Reddit-style upvote/downvote system?


    Because that runs very quickly into circlejerk territory. Some of the subreddits that I go to have disabled at least downvoting because people will just start dumping on someone to discredit their post without responding to it with an actual counter-argument.

    Posted September 13th by Cruinn-Annuin

    Why not just have a Reddit-style upvote/downvote system?


    Wouldn't necessarily be a huge issue with the current population of GTX0, but if the community ever grew (which is what Xhin wants) it would be a terrible idea. That sort of thing tends to just be abused.

    But again, it's still a form of rating of users and posts. So I just don't approve regardless.

    Posted September 13th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    Why not just have a Reddit-style upvote/downvote system?

    This place is so much closer than any regular reddit board. Downvotes would start to be based on who's posting alone, regardless of what someone is saying. #85 would become the downvote king even if his argument has merit. Also I usually don't vote almost ever if I'm on reddit unless it's something that really resonates with me. Other times I forget to upvote at all. I'd rather it be this way than an upvote/downvote system but I'm still unsure about this method.

    Caring has been oddly counter-productive lately it seems.

    Oddly enough it does feel that way somewhat. Funny how it turns out that way.

    Posted September 13th by Fox Forever

    Hey who said #7 could speak!?


    I am not a number!

    Posted September 13th by Moonray
    Moonray
     

    I'll address the rest of these points when I get home, but the feel I'm going for with the like system is more like how social media does it than Reddit. Likes aren't anonymous, there's no dislike, it doesn't tie into sorting algorithms in any way. With the merit system I'll experiment a bit but the current idea is:

  • You gain 1 merit for liking a post, but you have some kind of daily cap to this -- you can like posts beyond that but won't earn merit that day. Also 1 merit is very low.

  • The first 4 likes you get earn you merit individually.

  • After that you get increasingly larger
    bonuses for reaching targets. You'll still get some merit for individual likes but it won't be much.

  • These algorithms will scale depending on the size of the community.

  • Posted September 13th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned

    Fox Forever, don't post, you're at 420 bro.

    Posted September 13th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king

    I wasn't doing that but I gotta post eventually. I saved it as my pic now.

    Posted September 13th by Fox Forever

    I'll address these points tomorrow. It's late.

    Posted September 13th by Xhin
    Xhin
    The planets are aligned

    See, being the current leader of the merit points doesn't please me, because I would rather a variety of people post excellent content in boxcube so the whole page isn't just me starting threads. I would like to see people post news threads and opinion threads on games and not be the one who has to do it.

    Posted September 14th by I killed Mufasa
    I killed Mufasa
    long live the king
    Reply to: Merit System

    Enter your message here


    Site Rules | Complaints Process | Register Complaint Facebook Page
    GTX0 © 2009-2017 Xhin GameTalk © 1999-2008 lives on