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Not by my boss or even her boss.

But by our Office Technology department.



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What exactly did you get chewed out for?

Posted April 12th by Forte Lambardi

I requested an SSID/ Wifi Hot Spot of an event. It was set up just fine but I was told to test it out a week in advanced.

I tested it out today (day before the event) and it appears to be working fine. I tried to access the website that we will be using for our event and it kept timing out.

I emailed the Network Analyst to see if there was any issue and the Network analyst chewed me out saying he specifically told me to check it a week ago and went on a long tangent as to how these things neeed to be checked ahead of time.

Like I get it. I screwed up. Next time Ill do better. But what can we do right now. Is there a solution? Or Do I have to go with my Plan B or C (jump on the schools wifi or set up seperate 4g routers)

He said he would fix it in 10 minutes.

He fixed it in 10 minutes.

It was my mistake and I understand that. But there are better ways to communicate said mistakes to people. I have been spoiled with my job and I got a taste of reality D:.

The funny thing is my boss told me not to stress about checking the SSID and to wait till the day before if needed. I should have trusted my instinct and checked as soon as it was set up.

Posted April 12th by s.o.h.
s.o.h.
 

So, most likely, this guy spends a lot of time dealing with many people doing exactly what you just did. Being a proprietary tech support person myself, I find myself repeating the same thing a thousand times over because everyone just fails to listen. As a result, I'm forced to drop all my work and rush to fix this problem for one customer who failed to listen. By the millionth iteration of this BS, anyone would explode.

Next time, just test the damn website. And if there's a problem, give VERY detailed info on your steps to what caused the problem. And don't create a Salesforce case titled "Issue." IT will love you.

Posted April 12th by mariomguy

IT guys are always dicks

Posted April 12th by poptart!

@mariomguy I understand that. I'm in a similiar boat when it comes to advising students. But just because i have to deal with the 10th student who decided to drop some courses and is no longer meeting requirements does not give me the right to treat them harshly.

Customer service skills are expected in every job regardless of how many idiots youve dealt with that day. I don't remember a time I was talked to that harshly some one who is technically a colleague.

Keep in mind I worked in a Walgreens for 4 years in the most ghetto part of town. Ive dealt with a variety of nasty individuals. This interaction left me stunned for the rest of the day.


I could understand if I was being a demanding asshole towards the guy but that was not the case.

I do think working here as made me a little too soft I guess I'm just used to having a level of courtesy and professionalism in every interaction.

Edited Saturday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

The funny thing is my boss told me not to stress about checking the SSID and to wait till the day before if needed.

Your boss should know better than this. I wouldn't say this was on you. Also, there's a tendency for some tech guys to treat users like they're the biggest idiots in the world. Yes, I've had my share of people who don't listen, but users are still people and not all are stupid. Also this seems to imply a communication issue in general between your boss and that network tech you spoke with.

Yeah I get it can been repeating yourself alot can be infuriating (I hate doing that myself), but I also feel like lecturing a user without enough evidence that they are hard-head is kind of a waste (as some users are receptive to what they are being told).

Next time, just test the damn website. And if there's a problem, give VERY detailed info on your steps to what caused the problem.

Going to be honest with you here: that's our job to do. More often than not users don't give two shits about giving us details: they just want it fixed.

We have a client who just randomly puts in tickets with vague as possible details and it's very annoying. Users I helped at Dell also did this (and I waste tons of time to try get them to explain the issue to boot).

IT guys are always dicks

The ones with no people skills are. Our own Internal Staff at Dell was like this too.

Edited Saturday by Forte Lambardi

Boss stuff

live and learn is all I can do. This did serve as a reminder to me that even higher uos make mistakes and that I should follow my own instinct. I do think the reason why my boss didn't want me to stress over the SSID is because of all the work I've been doing.

People skills

I really think this guy lacks those period. Which is strange to me as the bulk of tje guys in the IT department are awkward but friendly. I interacted with this guy before he was curt and to the point.

Lord knows if I talked the way this guy did to any one in my office I would be fired.

Posted Saturday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

So, not trying to get into specifics, but the company I work for makes the GPS units that hang on golf carts. As you drive the course you see hole images, and a lot of markers appear on those images via GPS coordinates. Making changes to those graphics are a tricky thing because if you're off by a couple yards, everything starts looking broken. A customer insisted we use a picture of architect plans, folded like a book, laid out on a table, to take care of some major renovations. Precise as hell. My supervisor had arguments over this and insisted I send them to our contractors. Obviously I had to insist that the images were entirely unusable (if anything could come from it at all, expect 20-30 yard discrepancies easily). Despite all that grief I had to give it to the contractor, who then responded they'd have to guess where everything is.

Quite frequently I have to crush the hopes and dreams of everyone around me, but I wouldn't have to do that if people understood the process and kept their expectations in check. In some cases, putting the customer first means striking them down before their big, expensive, hopeless project even gets off the ground to avoid a catastrophe. I've had to talk this way to practically everyone at all levels in the company. We might be able to pull a rabbit out of our hat once in a while, but we can't be a magician all the time.

Once you get in a position where literally everyone is counting on you to do a good job or else it's the apocalypse, you just can't afford to waste time on the small stuff anymore. Your entire day will be eaten away by many people who make the same mistakes over and over and continue to want small things done for them. Meanwhile, several ships always seem to be heading straight towards several icebergs, and neither the ships nor the icebergs ever decide to change course.

It's not that we don't care, it's that we can't. And be honest: we shouldn't have to. If you receive instructions from an professional regarding something related to their wheelhouse, that should take precedence over anyone else. Other people might want things to happen a certain way, but that person is always trying to avoid a disaster.

Posted Saturday by mariomguy

IT guys are always dicks


Not all of us are :(

As for the OP:

I've worked with a lot of people, many of whom have had their own approach to dealing with things and generally speaking having a rant at the customer/client/colleague doesnt help anyone. In my experience, having seen others try it, the end result is the person at fault not learning their lesson (because they do it again the next time anyway) and they usually complain to higher ups about how they were treated. Suddenly then the issue moves away from what the customer/client/colleague did wrong and on to what the IT guy's behaviour was like.

My general approach to this sort of thing is to half jokingly point out how this could have all gone very wrong for them if it would take me longer to fix. It keeps me on friendly terms with them and usually they get that I am also making a point of "please don't do this again for your own sake".

I suppose 10+ years of doing this I've kinda just learned to "not care" if they do it (which is different from Mariom's "don't care about your problem" attitude towards it). If it all screws up I have it in writing that I told them to test it in advanced, I have their last-minute response in an email timestamped and I can prove that the work would take as long as I said it would, if it has a knock-on effect on the rest of my work then again I have all the proof I need to show it wasn't my fault.

I just deal with it the best I can and whatevs to the rest.

A lot of IT people just have no people skills though, my current boss amongst them.

Edited Saturday by Moonray
Moonray
 

It's not that we don't care, it's that we can't. And be honest: we shouldn't have to.


The whole point of the job is to care though. It's our responsibility to care whether or not the IT systems work and that includes when someone makes the silly mistake of not testing things.

When a teacher in one of our schools doesn't test something and comes to me last minute saying they really need it. I care that it won't work, I care that this person's plans are going to get flipped upside down if I don't help them out, because ultimately I like these people and don't want to see them fail but also there's a greater responsibility to making sure that their lesson or after-school performance or whatever goes ahead as planned. You don't have to care to fix it, but caring goes a long way toward doing a better all-round job of it.

Or to quote the guy who took a chance on me and hired me as a trainee 10+ years ago instead of a more qualified guy:

"It's easier to teach someone IT skills than it is to fix a broken personality."

Posted Saturday by Moonray
Moonray
 

I agree with @moonray about the caring part.

On my first week my boss told me that I have a guranteed job here until there comes a day where I no longer care to advocate for students. On that day she will be forced to let me go.

Posted Saturday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

My general approach to this sort of thing is to half jokingly point out how this could have all gone very wrong for them if it would take me longer to fix. It keeps me on friendly terms with them and usually they get that I am also making a point of "please don't do this again for your own sake".

I do that too. Problem is the stakes are impossibly high: I've found issues with our system where someone can put down entire sites. There's a team of tech support people to take care of miscellaneous issues here and there, but I'm responsible for the main site configuration. If a serious problem comes to me, it's like total nuclear failure support. Like, our product on a golf course would just stop working and it could take weeks to fix if people do things the wrong way. There just ISN'T room for error.

I suppose 10+ years of doing this I've kinda just learned to "not care" if they do it (which is different from Mariom's "don't care about your problem" attitude towards it).

I didn't say I don't care about the problem, but when it comes to priorities the bigger problems matter more than the smaller ones, to the point where the smaller ones take a very long time to progress.

The whole point of the job is to care though. It's our responsibility to care whether or not the IT systems work and that includes when someone makes the silly mistake of not testing things.

What I meant was I can't do ALL the caring: people need to care for their own things, too. If they're not sure of something, they should ask before fudging the system and making the problem worse. And instead of being upset with the answer I give them, they should care to understand why the answer is that way, or simply accept it because that's my job. I will do what needs to be done to get the job done properly, but other people should take it upon themselves to care for that as well.

On my first week my boss told me that I have a guranteed job here until there comes a day where I no longer care to advocate for students. On that day she will be forced to let me go.

It probably makes things easier having a boss like that. Really, very technical things are much more difficult to understand and comprehend. Some things are a simple piece of cake and other things could explode the universe. I understand the minefield like the back of my hand, but no one else does. Our system is proprietary, and I am a one man team. Literally no one else understands my job other than me.

Posted Saturday by mariomguy

Cool. The point of the matter is thr guy could be less of an asshat when dealing with people.

especially when he fixed it in 10 minutes.

Posted Saturday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

OK, and you could also follow instructions so he wouldn't have to spend 10 minutes for everybody every time something like that happened.

Posted Saturday by mariomguy

He would still be an asshat. That is an issue. You need to be a people person when you work with people end of discussion. If I as an employer see that you treat the people you are helping Like shit you will get fired for it. It is your job to fix issues.

You are paid to do it. (If possible) and you are paid to do it with a smile on your face.



Posted Saturday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

OK, and you could also follow instructions so he wouldn't have to spend 10 minutes for everybody every time something like that happened.

That's assuming it happens again. S.O.H. clearly showed that realized what mistakes were made and what needs to happen to avoid this in the future. At the same time he proved what Moonray said the previously: people will straight up ignore you no matter how correct you are if you come off as an asshole.

While I get your point, I also think you might be lumping all users together (unintentionally) who don't pay attention, make mistakes and are not very thoughtful of the IT personnel. That's not actually true in all cases.

It seems like you've gone through so many frustrating users that you're losing sight of the ones who actually are paying attention and try to make IT personnel's job not so annoying (yeah I know as hard is it believe they do exist).

Edited Saturday by Forte Lambardi

OK, but he is paid to tell you what to do and you didn't listen to a thing he said. That's called disrespect, it's what happens when you completely ignore people. Imagine if someone completely ignored your simple request, and because they never did you had to stop very important work. Now imagine that happening many times a week.

Respect goes both ways: if you want respect, you have to respect others. You disrespected someone responsible for the equipment you're using and got a lashing for it. My supervisor holds me accountable to make sure sites are set up before people are sent to the golf courses. If the day comes someone flies out to the Dominican Republic and nothing is ready because I ignored my supervisor's request, then yeah, I'd get a lashing for it. That is 100% fair.

Everyone tries being nice at first, but when knowledgeable people continually get disrespected, ignored, and problems spiral out of control, that's when we put our foot down and (try to) clamp the situation. If I had to take on a 10 minute project for everyone who's ever reported an issue to me, I wouldn't be able to accomplish any work. If I have to investigate these issues (most likely), that can take 10 hours or 10 days to resolve. It's not fair for the people who do things right that I need to waste all my time on the people who don't.

The computers, network, servers, etc. are all IT's domain. If they tell you to do something, you do it. Otherwise, there will be problems.

Posted Sunday by mariomguy

You are paid to do your job. Which is to assist people with their issues.

What if I had tested a week early and had the same problem a week later when I decided to retest it?


Respect goes both ways

you are acting like I screamed at the guy to fix the issue. What part of the following dont you understand




I could understand if I was being a demanding asshole towards the guy but that was not the case.

I do think working here as made me a little too soft I guess I'm just used to having a level of courtesy and professionalism in every interaction.


The guy was the aggressor through out the entire interaction.

Waste my time


waste your paid time on issues that you are paid to address. Almost like its your job.

Okay. I somehow think you may be worse than the guy I dealt with


Also I want to point out that I had two back up plans in place just incase the entire SSID went to shit even after being tested. Not that it matters as the event was successful

Edited Sunday by S.o.h
S.o.h
 

It seems like you've gone through so many frustrating users that you're losing sight of the ones who actually are paying attention and try to make IT personnel's job not so annoying (yeah I know as hard is it believe they do exist).

People try, but it's always a mixed bag of issues. Some people do certain things the right way, but then think they know it all and end up being more frustrating to convince when they're wrong. Other people constantly ask for advice and eventually do what I say, but not without 20 minutes of aggravation and grief because that person thinks their job is to tell me how to do mine. The best people are always the ones who listen, ask questions, and never assume. They do exist, but even past the aggravating parts reality isn't perfect, and those people get very upset when reality doesn't favor their issues.

I don't know if that IT guy really blew the problem out of proportion, but if it was only solved by luck in that 10 minutes, then his easy request being ignored lead to a crisis and could've brought an entire event to a screeching halt.

Posted Sunday by mariomguy

Mariomguy you sound like a fun person to work with

Posted Sunday by Brandy

Before I continue forward, I mean no disrespect.

They do exist, but even past the aggravating parts reality isn't perfect, and those people get very upset when reality doesn't favor their issues.

This is humanity 101 my friend. On top of that, there's no real way to be able to avoid what you're saying. People have expectations of things all the time. Best you can do is explain it and move on. I don't know why I need to tell you as this is one the inevitabilities working in IT (not even IT but ANY service position whatsoever). While I am not saying "It's Okay" I am saying it ain't worth the headache even if the other person is being an idiot.

I think Moonray has said it best to be honest. I only realized what he said after working at Dell for a year and a half dealing EXACTLY the clientele you are explaining.

Edited Sunday by Forte Lambardi

You are paid to do your job. Which is to assist people with their issues.

No, I am paid to make sure configurations work properly on initial install and facilitate changes. If someone in the company makes a mistake that causes things to fall apart, fixing their problem becomes another thing I have to do because I'm the only one who can do it. That's not just stuff I'm supposed to do.

What if I had tested a week early and had the same problem a week later when I decided to retest it?

Most likely testing a week early would verify there whether or not there's a problem and avoid any conflicts the day of. Hence why IT requested you test it, to save them time and headache and hassle from fixing your mistakes at the very last moment.

you are acting like I screamed at the guy to fix the issue. What part of the following dont you understand

Ignorance is a form of disrespect. He gave you directions, and you ignored him. You created an emergency for him that didn't need to be there. Don't act like you did nothing wrong.

Okay. I somehow think you may be worse than the guy I dealt with

Come by my desk and see what I do everyday. My first hour of every day is spent solving problems for everybody, not the priority work that actually needs to get done. People in my company actually do like me, once they understand reality favors the prepared. Since the people I work with the most are the ones who communicate with the customer, if anything does go wrong, guess who'll be the first to hear it? I'm always on top of potential issues.

Come to think of it, the worst thing the IT guy did is not follow up with you on testing the SSID. Follow-up e-mails are great when you need something from someone! If you don't it can be forgotten forever.

Posted Sunday by mariomguy

Ignorance is a form of disrespect

Oh Lord no it is not. You really need to get off that high horse. Like I said I acknowledged my error being a dick about is not how you are suppose to treat people. Especially when it takes you less than 10 minutes to fix the issue.


when you spend more time berating some one for their mistakes than you spend on fixing said mistakes it screams what type of asshole you are.

I have to do because I'm the only one who can do it

in other words its your job. If it wasnt your job you wouldnt have to do it period regardless if you were the only one who could do it.

Come by my desk and see what I do everyday

I rather not. You are paid to do your job and not be a dick no?

Posted Sunday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

an entire event to a screeching halt.

really unlikely I may be be dumb but I a not stupid. I have two contingency plans in place if the SSID failed to work on the day of the event for other reasons.

Mariomguy you sound like a fun person to work with

I agree. I'm waiting for him to say he was thr guy who did the SSID.

now I could understand if I demanded it to be fixed and threw a bitch fit over it. But guess what that was not the case. Had he told me it wasn't doable I wouldnjabe been okay with that as I had two backup plans just incase.

but of course I was going to try and see if all avenues of plan A had been exhausted before moving on to Plan B.



Posted Sunday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

This is humanity 101 my friend. On top of that, there's no real way to be able to avoid what you're saying. People have expectations of things all the time. Best you can do is explain it and move on.

I know, and I do. I'm venting now, but when I actually deal with people at work I always do my best to explain the issues, what can be done to fix or prevent them, etc. with a level head. The most frustrating thing is when people don't listen and argue back. It's not anyone's job to argue with me, it's their job to listen to me and get me the info I need so I can fix their problem. If they can't get me that info, I can't fix anything, and we're at a standstill meanwhile. After years of working and countless fires put out, I still have people doubting me.

Where I work, someone refusing to listen could wreak havoc on our entire production pipeline and bring down entire sites. Only recently do I feel people are finally starting to realize the extent of the issues we face. A thousand things have to go right, and if one thing goes wrong, no matter how minor, it's not a question of if, but how terrible the problem becomes. And there are quite a few small things that can cause disastrous problems.

I think Moonray has said it best to be honest. I only realized what he said after working at Dell for a year and a half dealing EXACTLY the clientele you are explaining.

I care about their issues. Like I said before, I meant I shouldn't be the ONLY one who cares about the issues.

Posted Sunday by mariomguy

Especially when it takes you less than 10 minutes to fix the issue.

There are many issues I have to deal with that could be 10 minutes or 10 days minimum depending on a few key factors. We have a customer begging us for 3D, but I won't know until I test if it'll work. If it does, we can do it right away. If not, it could take weeks or months of testing to figure out. Your IT guy wouldn't get so mad at you if there wasn't a serious risk. You were very lucky the issue only took 10 minutes to resolve.

I rather not. You are paid to do your job and not be a dick no?

I'm not a dick. The people who disrespect me and end up with massive headaches are.

really unlikely I may be be dumb but I a not stupid. I have two contingency plans in place if the SSID failed to work on the day of the event for other reasons.

What did he think about your backup plans? Were they within IT's policies? Sometimes just because you can do something doesn't mean the company will allow it, unfortunately.

in other words its your job.

No IT/tech support person is specifically hired to fix your mistakes. This crisis was avoidable had you listened. Even my supervisor agreed with me, nobody can expect me to do great work when I receive poor quality info. The worst thing the IT guy did was refuse to follow up on his initial request, even though he knew the event was coming soon and you didn't respond. But more likely than not he assumed you tested and didn't have an issue, which is perfectly fine.

Posted Sunday by mariomguy

No IT/tech support person is specifically hired to fix your mistakes.


I disagree. My job at our group of schools is to make things work regardless of what caused it not to work. As much as I would like to not be fixing problems caused by mistakes, of revisiting issues because someone didn't do what I suggested, I am still there to fix them.

If I can't fix them because there's a "nuclear disaster", as you put it, then that's that I can't do it and they'll have to wait. If they can't wait because it's needed "now" then they've learned a valuable lesson and I refer back to my point about me having all the evidence I need to avoid me getting the blame if it comes to that.


Posted Sunday by Moonray
Moonray
 

What did he think about your backup plans?

he was so busy being an ass that he never let me explain my back up plans.

disrespect me

and let me guess you find everything people do disrespectful?

IT/tech support person is specifically hired to fix your mistakes

you are paid to solve tech problems period my dude. It literally falls in your job description. If you can't do it that's one thing. If you won't do it that's another.

As soon as I told him the problem and after he chewed me out he told "I'll call you back in 10 minutes to let you know that the site is working" he had dealt with said issue before and knew how to fix it. Once again the guy had no right to be an asshole.

Stress, idiots and last minute issues are a part of every job. If you can't be a decent human being while dealing with these things then quit. Its obvious that working a job where you arr at the service of others is not for you.




Posted Sunday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

imagine fucking up and then getting mad that someone held you accountable for fucking up. "it guy was mean to me even though i was 100% in the wrong :(" next time dont be in the wrong and just follow his simple instructions jfc.

Posted Sunday by The Bandit

You don't have to be mean when holding people accountable for their actions. That's my whole point.

And venting about it doesnt mean I'm mad about it. It's one helluva a jarring experience when you treat some one like a decent human being and then have them explode on you for asking for there help.



Edited Sunday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

imagine fucking up and then getting mad that someone held you accountable for fucking up. "it guy was mean to me even though i was 100%% in the wrong :(" next time dont be in the wrong and just follow his simple instructions jfc.

That's not the point. Here's my view in a nutshell:

1. S.O.H. not reviewing the issue the time he was requested looking at it (more on this in #2).

2. Boss telling S.O.H on don't worry about it. Are you really going to think "Oh my boss is an idiot I'll ignore what he says."

3. IT creating an experience (despite being factually correct) that makes the end user not to want to even come to him in the future (thus causing more potential issues).

Hate to say it, but it really doesn't matter who fucked up here in a sense:

an employee of a service level position made an employee feel like an idiot for a simple fix that was resolved in 10 minutes. The employee who "fucked up" realized they did so without trying to make excuses. If an end user is being an idiot it'll become apparent in the long-run (through documentation and the user being themselves). If not, there's a larger personnel issue to be addressed (usually way out of the IT personell's scope and management should deal with this).

That's why we are even having this discussion at all. There's not even any evidence to show this is going to be a re-occurring issue. While we can take this as one incident and move on, now there's lasting effect of "oh this IT guy is an asshole" despite what was factually correct/incorrect. Thus now things are going to potentially be more annoying in the future (for both parties).

After years of working and countless fires put out, I still have people doubting me.

To be frank, this tells me there's a larger issue at hand with your company's culture/people. That and people are this way. The first job I had for 6 years. I still get doubted by end users - it's how it is. The 2nd job was the same and the 3rd was the same. You're better off not giving a shit whether they "trust" you. There are also other factors that might consider as well such as how you present stuff. It also takes 1 time for people not to trust you (whether you screws up or not and how many dumpster fires you put out doesn't matter). At the end of the day, stay professional and continue doing what you're doing (which you are clearly doing now).

Edited Sunday by Forte Lambardi

I can't speak about the specifics of IT work, but can a little from a general perspective of management/employee generally.

In my personal experience, having been a manager at several businesses and an employee at others, I could not disagree more with the idea that the best type of employee is someone who just listens to me and does what I say. Nothing is more stressful to me as a manager than feeling like I have to micro-manage everything. If mistakes were made but the reasoning makes sense, there is no way I can be truly mad about it, and I certainly won't take out any frustration of extra work on my plate on those employees. I've personally found, on both ends of it, that people tend to work better and smarter if they feel ownership of their work, which means giving them agency or leniency to "not listen" to me as a manager.

As a manager, I also think it sets a bad work environment to act like I know everything, or that I always know better. There are certain areas where that might be true, but a lot of great ideas have come from people who are new. And I'd like to foster an environment where people feel like they can take ownership of their jobs and of the establishment.

This is not to suggest there is never a need to talk to people who frequently make mistakes. But I agree with the initial assessment that it is never ok to take out one's frustration on another, especially someone below you in the corporate ladder or whatever. Snapping, shouting, being passive-aggressive: none of these foster an environment where the employee is going to truly take away anything particularly meaningful. If you snap at someone for screwing up because you are frustrated, their bigger take away is going to be that you're a dick rather than what the issue at hand actually is. Especially if they're someone who makes less money than you. And I know as an employee myself, I have never left a situation where I got "chewed out" feeling like, "Oh, that was my bad and I have totally learned my lesson and I will be more careful in the future!" Even when it was my fault, if I got "chewed out," my response tended to be, "Jeez...it was an honest mistake. Fuck off with this attitude." So. I can't say I'm a fan of the "chewed out" response. Employees who care will likely feel at least a little bad if they make a mistake. They'll probably feel less bad if you chew them out, give them attitude, and also frequently revoking their agency.

I dunno if this is really relevant to the conversation at this point. Just some initial thoughts from early stages of the thread.

Posted Sunday by Jet Presto

If I can't fix them because there's a "nuclear disaster", as you put it, then that's that I can't do it and they'll have to wait. If they can't wait because it's needed "now" then they've learned a valuable lesson and I refer back to my point about me having all the evidence I need to avoid me getting the blame if it comes to that.

If only. People don't learn their lesson. They keep making the same mistakes and are entirely unwilling to listen or learn. There are some people who've worked at the company for 15 years they think they know everything. But they don't, and it's frustrating to deal with them.

and let me guess you find everything people do disrespectful?

When I explain to them the problem and they don't listen, blame my supervisors for mistakes they made themselves (with the record proving it!), specifically do the things I tell them not to do, fail to get me the info I need to take care of their problem, and try to tell me how I'm supposed to handle their case (a method that would result in errors and not be sufficient), that all falls under disrespect for me and my position. No, not everything is disrespectful, but holy hell.

you are paid to solve tech problems period my dude. It literally falls in your job description.

You're not supposed to disobey orders, though. Those problems could've been avoided if you followed instructions. You already admitted you were in the wrong.

imagine fucking up and then getting mad that someone held you accountable for fucking up. "it guy was mean to me even though i was 100% in the wrong :(" next time dont be in the wrong and just follow his simple instructions jfc.

EXACTLY. Jesus.

You don't have to be mean when holding people accountable for their actions. That's my whole point.

HA! If I had a button on my desk that could avoid a potential crisis for you, tell me, why I should push it? In the same situation, you refused. You're not going to learn if every time you fail to follow orders or follow up with people the crisis gets put on someone else's plate. Sooner or later you'll need to be held accountable for your own improper decisions. A little communication goes a long way.

The right attitude towards your boss is "IT said we need to do X, or else Y." If he insists you shouldn't check anything, you need to let IT know that's the direction you were given. Then IT will speak with your boss about the issue and you've covered yourself.

To be frank, this tells me there's a larger issue at hand with your company's culture/people. That and people are this way.

People who've been there for a long time think they know it all, but they don't. And their assumptions are sometimes really dangerous. Someone, in an offhand comment, claimed they could change pars on a course. The behavior is different whether a hole is a par 3 or not, and attempting to change it could brick all units on the site and create a massive headache for the customer and our tech support team.

In my personal experience, having been a manager at several businesses and an employee at others, I could not disagree more with the idea that the best type of employee is someone who just listens to me and does what I say.

So, different departments own their own lanes. It doesn't matter what our account managers say, even their manager can't force me to complete a project improperly. Making sure setup is handled correctly is my responsibility, not theirs. If I say something will create issues and other people don't listen, well, then there will be issues.

I think a good employee from a different department would ask more questions and demand less. There is nothing wrong with asking questions to try and make different suggestions, but that is very different from making demands. Only my supervisor can tell me what to do: other people can't force me to do anything.

As a manager, I also think it sets a bad work environment to act like I know everything, or that I always know better.

Perhaps manager/employee in the same department is very different from a corporate structure where inter-departmental communication happens on a daily basis. There are people who have direct responsibilities and oversee different aspects of the process. Someone outside my department can't just barge in making demands and assumptions because they don't know anything about the process.

Basically, I know everything that I'm responsible for, and I don't know anything about anyone else. I'm not going to pretend to know what life is like for our account managers, but in return I hope they don't pretend to know what it's like to be me.

But I agree with the initial assessment that it is never ok to take out one's frustration on another, especially someone below you in the corporate ladder or whatever. Snapping, shouting, being passive-aggressive: none of these foster an environment where the employee is going to truly take away anything particularly meaningful.

Personally, I feel most issues are a result of improper communication. Someone didn't tell someone something, they did something wrong, now we have a situation. Most problems can be avoided if people just communicated a little better. People who know things absolutely should share their knowledge with others, give complete info, and not make assumptions.

Posted Sunday by mariomguy

You're not supposed to disobey orders, though. Those problems could've been avoided if you followed instructions. You already admitted you were in the wrong.

and he still doesnt have the right to be a complete asshat about it. As others pointed out attitudes such as yours and the IT guys dissuades people fromasking for help.

Once again you are paid to deal with your clients and what ever issues they might have. This includes their perpetual fuck ups. If you cant do it with out throwing a fit quit. It's apparent in this very thread that there are IT people who don't flip their shit when an issue arises that is a simple 10 minute fix.



HA! If I had a button on my desk that could avoid a potential crisis for you, tell me, why I should push it?

it's your job? You get paid to do it?

In the same situation, you refused.

and I owned up to it. As indicated multiple times in this thread.

You're not going to learn if every time you fail to follow orders or follow up with people the crisis gets put on someone else's plate. Sooner or later you'll need to be held accountable for your own improper decisions.

uh it's laid out pretty clearly that I did learn from it and I am accountable for my actions. You can teach people all of that with out being a dick.


The right attitude towards your boss is "IT said we need to do X, or else Y." If he insists you shouldn't check anything, you need to let IT know that's the direction you were given. Then IT will speak with your boss about the issue and you've covered yourself.

cool. The right attitude people in IT should have is not to be asshats.

like Ive said multiple times I screwed up and will do better next time. But to be chewed out at that extreme is excessive and does no one any good.



Edited Sunday by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

As others pointed out attitudes such as yours and the IT guys dissuades people fromasking for help.

And attitudes like yourself times a hundred people prevents us from being able to guarantee all of you help.

and I owned up to it.

Except you really didn't. He fixed an issue caused by your arrogance. You can never make up for that. All you can do is make sure you don't disrespect him again. IT is responsible for everyone, not just you. The more mistakes people make, the more difficult it will be to take care of everybody.

uh it's laid out pretty clearly that I did learn from it and I am accountable for my actions. You can teach people all of that with out being a dick.

If you were truly accountable, you'd have fixed it yourself. You already think you know better than the IT guy not following his instructions, so go ahead. Fix your problem on your own.

like Ive said multiple times I screwed up and will do better next time. But to be chewed out at that extreme is excessive and does no one any good.

You can't do better, you can only do as instructed and keep people informed. Once the info passes to IT, it becomes their responsibility to ensure everything works.

I try to be as proactive as possible with information so we don't have any surprises. The most common complaint about me is the length and detail of my e-mails - all the technical people love this, but not the laymen. I'm more upset the IT guy didn't get back with you than for chewing you out. If he knew the event was going to be important, making sure that meeting works was still his responsibility. He could've sent a follow-up e-mail instead of placing all the blame squarely on you after you both ignored it for a week. Or better yet, he could've tested it himself if it was that important. It takes two to tango.

Posted Sunday by mariomguy

All you can do is make sure you don't disrespect him again


you were truly accountable, you'd have fixed it yourself. You already think you know better than the IT guy not following his instructions, so go ahead. Fix your problem on your own.

if your work place is as pleasant as you are I can understand why you have so many problems. Get off your high horse dude.

in no way shape or form was that disrespect. instead of asking for help from the expert who is paid to do that work I'll take care of it myself. Great in sight dude!



Edited Sunday by S o h
S o h
 

You should stop expecting me to say you didn't deserve it and he shouldn't have yelled at you. You flat-out ignored orders!

In my company, if people are told to do something and they don't do it, it can cost thousands of dollars and take weeks for us to fix. But everyone does what they're told (for the most part), so everything's fine.

in no way shape or form was that disrespect. instead of asking for help from the expert who is paid to do that work I'll take care of it myself. Great in sight dude!

The IT guy told you what to do and you didn't do it. Now you're acting out on your own and ran into a problem. That's not an opinion, that's exactly what happened.

Edited Sunday by mariomguy

That is not disrespect. A mistake on my part sure, but far from disrespect. I do thank the IT guy and people like him for the learning experience on how not to treat people when they screw up. The event went well and that's all that matters now.

Any who may your week be as pleasant as you are.



Posted Sunday by S o h
S o h
 

Basically I agree with SOH in that just because he made a mistake and caused a problem that needed fixing doesn't mean the other person is "right" or justified in being rude.

It's less about right and wrong and more about what kind of person you are. You can be rude and react in a negative manner and I wouldn't say that you are "wrong" in doing so. But I would not want to work with you and would probably try to avoid you in the future. What good are you doing by making someone feel stupid? Correct the mistake, provide feedback, and hope it does not happen again.

Posted Sunday by Vandy

A long tangent isn't needed for a first offense that's fixed in ten minutes.

When someone fucks up at my job, it often has repercussions that effect the entire shift. My response is to talk to them very openly about how they fucked up and how they need to not do that in the future. Yes, I do appear angry, but I don't make a huge thing out of it or go on a huge tangent.

There's a difference between being angry and being an angry asshole.

Posted Sunday by Cruinn-Annuin

How can I praise someone for ignoring direct orders and creating a mini-crisis?

If someone screws something up it will actually cost thousands of dollars to fix, possibly take a week or two, slow down the pipeline, and entire sites will become dysfunctional. You can be nice most of the time, but it's not my job to be nice. Even my supervisor agrees (super nice guy, BTW), we go to work to get a job done. We don't go there to make friends. I'm actually a really friendly person, but when it comes down to business we have a process. Follow it, or else things will go to hell.

Maybe you're still feeling pissed about the encounter right now, but that feeling will pass. What won't pass is the next time IT gives you instructions you'll do it. Then when your co-workers decide they're not going to update their passwords and get locked out, you'll be glad you had that experience only one time.

You're going to have a better day tomorrow. The people who learn from their mistakes are actually better than those who are perfect. If it ever does come up again apologize, follow his instructions, and show that you've grown from this. He'll love you, you'll have a gay old wedding, and you both will live happily ever after.

Posted Monday by mariomguy

How can I praise someone for ignoring direct orders and creating a mini-crisis?

being a decent human being to someone when dealing with their fuck up is not "praising" them friendo

Posted Monday by s.o.h.
s.o.h.
 

There's a difference between being angry and being an angry asshole.

Not surprising that mariomguy is having issues understanding what the point even is when it comes to social interaction.

Posted Monday by Cruinn-Annuin

What won't pass is the next time IT gives you instructions you'll do it.

Or he'll just lie, because it's easier than dealing with some dick from IT.

"Yeah I tested it, worked fine last week. You must have changed something on your end."

Posted Monday by Count Dooku





Posted Monday by Vandy

People who know things absolutely should share their knowledge with others, give complete info, and not make assumptions.


Right. I wasn't saying that you shouldn't share knowledge or information. My comment there was more in reference to how one responds, particularly in any sort of manner of frustration. I don't really care how frustrating it is that someone didn't listen to you. You should respond without frustration or attitude. You can be assertive without being aggressive.

but it's not my job to be nice.


It kiiiiinda is. You work in an organization that has other employees, no? You have co-workers, right? Then, yeah, it kiiiinda is your job to play nice with others. Even if it weren't, if you really want people to take the right thing away, this attitude is not going to exactly endear you to them. Same thing with the whole, "You can never make it up to him" attitude, and the whole, "You can't do better. All you can do is what you're told." You might have your "lane" and other people might have theirs, but you are still part of a team of employees and you do need to work together. This attitude does not really warm you up to people, which doesn't really make them want to respect you. You can't just demand respect because your job, you feel, entitles you to it. You deserve some by default, as a fellow employee of the company, but consider the possibility that humans might not actually like basically being told to shut up and do what they're told.



Also, just a note about "disobeying orders:" let's not get too carried away here. We're not talking about a military operation, here.




Posted Monday by Jet Presto

Also, just a note about "disobeying orders:" let's not get too carried away here. We're not talking about a military operation, here.


Yeah, I was going to bring that up and I forgot.

Being able to tell someone HOW to do something doesn't mean getting to tell them TO DO something. It doesn't matter if that's your wheelhouse. If you're not their boss, you're not their boss. This is condescending as fuck. This is like the shit that the diva bartenders where I work would say.

While I know how to run the kitchen that I work in, I didn't just start telling my co-workers to do shit. I waited, I talked to the managers/owners, I got promoted to Head Cook. Now I have the actual authority to inform people that they should do things. I didn't just start telling them because "I know better than you so you have to do what I say".

(I want everyone to stop and reflect on the fact that we now have a concrete situation in which mariomguy is objectively more of an asshole than I am. That really takes some doing.)

Posted Monday by Cruinn-Annuin

So, in the organization I work at, we have plenty of account managers who deal directly with the golf courses about a variety of issues: RMAs, basic how-tos, basic software support, etc. If they get a problem with site configuration (adding/removing holes/courses, renovations), that requires a much bigger, longer project with more advanced tools. I require information from the course to make the site functional, but I don't contact them directly.

A long time ago there were complaints courses had to speak with so many different people to resolve issues, and every time they called they had to speak to someone different, and they couldn't keep track of everyone. So this restructuring allows the course to maintain one point of contact through multiple projects and build a relationship with that person. The downside of this is those people can't possibly know everything, yet retain awesome powers as system admins. If they actually did some of the things they said, sites would go down until I'm able to set them up again from scratch. Heck, they have the ability to clear all site data with one button!

And with great power...

So, I've added a section to my weekly e-mails with different tidbits of system knowledge, tips, and suggested procedures. My e-mail tomorrow discusses things they can do safely during the day, must be pushed overnight, and must be handled by me. Another e-mail explained a process where I can pre-prep their sites for course training. The topic is almost always an issue someone with the team had that week, so it's always relevant. And I hope it's at least helpful to more than one person, even if just to brush up and reinforce known topics that can easily get lost in the swarm.

Posted Tuesday by mariomguy

For anyone who deals with interdepartmental communication:

The department owns everything in that space. The people above them simply hold them accountable to do their jobs. They consult with the people next to them. But they own the space they work in 100%. Within that space, there is no higher authority. They do not own the space next to them.

Posted Tuesday by mariomguy
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