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I don't reallly have an ex from high school. I've been dating the same girl since the last ay ofmidle schoo.

Posted June 6th by tnu
tnu

.

Edited June 11th by Jubei
Jubei
This path is one that I have chosen myself

Get over it.

Posted June 6th by Cruinn-Annuin

how long were you together?

Posted June 6th by poptart!

Even after what happened, no matter how painful, no matter how traumatizing, I still wish her all the best, hoping she's found happiness, even though she's living in a cruel world.

I've just always wanted to be important enough for someone to notice my absence. And cared enough for them to crave my company. Out of all my relationships, it was the only one that felt genuine.

I went out for a walk tonight. As I watched the sky form new colors, I felt loneliness wash over me. It wasn't overwhelming, just gave me a little sadness. When the night sky is full of stars, I wish she was here with me to look at them.

Posted June 6th by Jubei
Jubei
This path is one that I have chosen myself

.

Edited June 11th by Jubei
Jubei
This path is one that I have chosen myself

We dated in the summer of 2003 for a couple of months.


deep and intense emotions


Get. The fuck. Over it.

Posted June 7th by Cruinn-Annuin

The intensity hasn't been consistently this strong throughout the years. I barely found her on facebook yesterday since we have a mutual friend.

Anyways, I just wanted to forget about this ordeal. But you can't forget things like this, nor is it easy to get over it. The past--the past you want nothing more than to get away from, to erase from your memory--has a way of creeping up on you and reminding you of painful things when you least expect it. It's like a series of flashbacks and a constant reminder of what I lost.

Posted June 7th by Jubei
Jubei
This path is one that I have chosen myself

It'd be much easy to get over it if she wasn't so pretty. By 30 most chicks have hit the wall, but maybe such a special creature won't ever hit it. Maybe she's immune.

Posted June 7th by Jubei
Jubei
This path is one that I have chosen myself

.

Edited June 11th by Jubei
Jubei
This path is one that I have chosen myself

I just miss the time when we were together. I miss how she laughed, the way she smiled. I miss her penetrating eyes, the smell of her hair. I miss the duality of moods with her, how she made me happy and sad at the same time.

Posted June 7th by Jubei
Jubei
This path is one that I have chosen myself

I like how you haven't said anything about who she actually is as a person. All you've said is shit about how she made you feel and how nice she was to look at.

Posted June 7th by Cruinn-Annuin

It's hard to describe. It felt like she was my soulmate, and she was a lighthouse that guided me through a chaotic sea.
Her voice was dulcet, so soft. Her laugh was contagious. Her touch sent chills down my spine. Her love was unconditional.

She was a brilliant pianist, and I enjoyed listening to her play. I think about her and I know it's the only time I've been in love. Without her, I felt so lost. I came to the realization that she made me who I am.

She was talented, a beautiful girl with a pure heart. As a MGTOW, I think she was a unicorn, the rare kind of woman that can actually feel love, not just lust. There was a sadness in her eyes as if she had endured some traumas, possibly an eating disorder. Her existence lightens people's lives.

An animal lover. The kind of woman who could be happy anywhere. She never spoke badly about anyone. She had a defiant streak to her, but not in a bad way. It was more like a way of carrying herself elegantly, despite the adversity that happened to her.

Posted June 7th by Jubei
Jubei
This path is one that I have chosen myself

Listening to this shit is just as toxic as listening to you trash all the other women in the world like usual. Picking one person and saying this is the perfect one, this is the one that's actually real, this is the one who justifies my existence, etc. is so bald-faced backhanded and desperately incel that I find it mind-boggling. I really, really hope that you get your life together, either in the sense that you're serious when you spout all this generic romance movie crap and actually feel this way, or in the sense that this is just another angle to your incel shit that you're using to troll GT. Either way, it gets said and I really hope you make the mistake of saying this shit around someone like me in real life very soon so you can get an attitude adjustment.

It is so telling that your perfect woman is an image of a dainty, elegant wisp of femininity and nothing remotely real.

Edited June 7th by Cruinn-Annuin

You're too tunnel visioned on how she made you feel -- on how you are the only reciever of feelings. You don't love yourself enough to even think about loving another person (or sharing what should be overflowing first), so cut that shit out before you hurt someone or yourself any further.

Posted June 7th by LLight

reads post....reads together for a couple of months




Posted June 7th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

^That. Being together with someone for "a couple of months" isn't a long enough amount of time. It sounds like you were in the honeymoon stage and something interrupted it. You have honeyvision.

Posted June 7th by Fox Forever

Cruinn-Annuin's


Shut. The fuck. up. "Gettign over it" isn't just osme easy magic buitton you can press that maeks eerythig all better.

Posted June 7th by tnu
tnu

No tme usually makes it better and I am sure its been well over a decade that he dated this person for a couple of months. Holding on to something like this is not healthy.



Posted June 7th by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Shut. The fuck. up. "Gettign over it" isn't just osme easy magic buitton you can press that maeks eerythig all better.

While his words are harsh he's telling him to get over a relationship that happened almost 2 decades ago for a few months only. He's not saying this about something that happened yesterday. And second he's likely being more harsh because of whose topic it is.

Posted June 7th by Fox Foreve

Shut. The fuck. up. "Gettign over it" isn't just osme easy magic buitton you can press that maeks eerythig all better.


He was infatuated with some chick for a couple of months. Even by your obsessive standards, this barely means shit. Don't play devil's advocate with me just because you have conditioned yourself so thoroughly to produce that knee-jerk reaction when I suggest just fucking dealing with it.

In addition, the way that he is portraying his "heartbreak" makes it clear that he's acting like the stereotypical misogynist that he usually presents himself as, just in a backhanded way. Do not even start to act like his emotions are legitimate.

Edited June 7th by Cruinn-Annuin

I am sure its been well over a decade that he dated this person for a couple of months

He said it was summer 2003. That was before I even went on GT.

Posted June 7th by Fox Forever

He said it was summer 2003. That was before I even went on GT.


what the hell....

Posted June 7th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

No tme usually makes it better and I am sure its been well over a decade that he dated this person for a couple of months. Holding on to something like this is not healthy.



Still don't buy that crap If that were true than e woud have "gotten over it" by now regardless and telling him to "get over it" accomplishes literally noting because by the stanards presented if he could have done so he would have by now. If it was just as easy as pressing this magic "get over it" button you all seem to think exists.





Posted June 7th by tnu
tnu

I stubbed my toe in 2nd grade everyday is a living nightmare I don't sleep I don't eat I can't go outside I relive it every single moment and don't anyone ever THINK of telling me to get over it.

Posted June 7th by The Bandit

What do you mean you "found" her on Facebook?

Posted June 7th by Jet Presto

Still don't buy that crap If that were true than e woud have "gotten over it" by now regardless and telling him to "get over it" accomplishes literally noting because by the stanards presented if he could have done so he would have by now. If it was just as easy as pressing this magic "get over it" button you all seem to think exists.


"If you choose to act like a complete idiot about your emotions and pretend to be continually devastated by something that happened briefly over 15 years ago, you are automatically right."

Yeah, there's no way that he's being unreasonable (or dishonest) about anything. If this is what he's saying, that means that this is actually what he feels and that he is completely justified in feeling it, completely disregarding how blatantly disrespectful and irrational his reasoning is.

Stupid.

Edited June 7th by Cruinn-Annuin

Well this is an interesting post. Not what I'd expect from the author at all.

Jubei, have you considered that what you're describing is just love itself and you'd be feeling the same things regardless of *who* you were with? Like maybe it's a really dumb idea to experience it around the types of women you seem to think all women belong to, but you could pick literally any woman who fits your absurdly expansive criteria and get the same exact experience. This person might be very different but you'd just love different things about them.

Posted June 7th by Xhin
Xhin
Nature is beautiful

Even after what happened, no matter how painful, no matter how traumatizing, I still wish her all the best, hoping she's found happiness, even though she's living in a cruel world.

That’s the nicest thing I ever read you say. By golly sorry for calling you ted bundy.

Posted June 8th by Brandy

have you considered that what you're describing is just love itself


Is it really "love" to hold someone on this pedestal and view them as flawless beings?

Not so sure I think that's a particularly healthy concept of love, to be honest, and certainly isn't any type of love I've ever experienced, personally.

Posted June 8th by Jet Presto

There are many unhealthy manifestations of love. There wouldn't be nearly so much infidelity, and the myriad rationalizations that are used to excuse it, if this wasn't the case.

Still don't buy that crap If that were true than e woud have "gotten over it" by now regardless and telling him to "get over it" accomplishes literally noting because by the stanards presented if he could have done so he would have by now. If it was just as easy as pressing this magic "get over it" button you all seem to think exists.

Getting over past emotional trauma doesn't have to be easy to be worthwhile.

Not that the end of a brief high school relationship constitutes serious trauma.

Not that Disney corporation refusing to recognize the legitimacy of the Star Wars expanded universe constitutes serious trauma.

More likely, indeed, is the possibility that the unhappy emotional state has its roots somewhere else, and must be addressed with a modicum of personal courage before the process of improving one's life can begin.

Posted June 8th by Famov

It doesn't count as love until you've experienced someone farting or burping or spelling something wrong and you're less disgusted than you thought you'd be. If you can tolerate open mouthed chewing with only polite reminders, then you've probably found the one.

I'm only half joking. This thread is gross.

Posted June 8th by Ophelia

I'm only half joking. This thread is gross.


actually farting is one of the most intimate things you can do in a relationship.

“If there is love, smallpox scars are as pretty as dimples. I'll love your face no matter what it looks like. Because it's yours.”
-Stephen King

but I agree what Jubei experience was an intense infatuation and a manifestation of emotions triggered by raging hormones due to puberty.

Putting some one on a pedestal is down right dangerous and results in severe disappointment for the individual projecting these feelings. Additionally it leaves the person on pedestal feeling creeped out and disgusted they are treated as some sort of trophy, an object of conquest and not a human being.

Ive been there before many times and have grown out of this mindset at the ripe age of 25. (more or less) (which is ironically when the human brain finishes developing) I dont really fault Jubei for once feeling like this. But the fact that he hasnt gotten over it is worrisome.

There is a reason that we dont hear any Crazy Ex Boyfriend stories....

All of this is made worse by this following comment: "she was a lighthouse that guided me through a chaotic sea."


While I am all for healthy relationships and partners helping each other through rough times. A relationship like this is dangerous. Co dependency is not good for any one.

A relationship should make a good life great. Not a bad life good.



Edited June 8th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

actually farting is one of the most intimate things you can do in a relationship.


It is gross. It is also natural and relatively common. These two things are not mutually exclusive. As much as the unwashed populace would like to portray their general lack of tact and cleanliness as simply being comfortable with each other, it does not mean that it is acceptable to everyone.

There is a reason that we dont hear any Crazy Ex Boyfriend stories....


The willingness of men to publicly blame the failure of a relationship that was literally half their responsibility entirely on women and their wacky vaginas does not mean anything significant. The societal bias that casts the Crazy Ex-Girlfriend as a tried-and-true archetype while disregarding the general creepiness and insecurity of the average man provides a view of gender relations that is about as valid as mariomguy's view of the video game industry.

Posted June 8th by Cruinn-Annuin

It is gross. It is also natural and relatively common. These two things are not mutually exclusive. As much as the unwashed populace would like to portray their general lack of tact and cleanliness as simply being comfortable with each other, it does not mean that it is acceptable to everyone.

As long as your partner isnt running around trying to cup cake you or actively trying to fart in your face its a natural part of life. While it isnt something I would do around a partner a few months/ years into the relationship it will happen eventually.


The willingness of men to publicly blame the failure of a relationship that was literally half their responsibility entirely on women and their wacky vaginas does not mean anything significant. The societal bias that casts the Crazy Ex-Girlfriend as a tried-and-true archetype while disregarding the general creepiness and insecurity of the average man provides a view of gender relations that is about as valid as mariomguy's view of the video game industry.


I meant more often than not the crazy ex boy friend tends to kill their former partner. The ex girlfriend doesnt have a tale to tell if shes dead.



Posted June 8th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

I meant more often than not the crazy ex boy friend tends to kill their former partner. The ex girlfriend doesnt have a tale to tell if shes dead.


I was trying to figure out exactly what you meant, so I simply responded to what you wrote how you wrote it. Thank you for explaining. And yes, Jubei does present himself like the kind of person that's eventually going to try to stab some woman and then get summarily beaten by cops until he realizes what a fuck head he's acting like.

Posted June 8th by Cruinn-Annuin

Ahh my mistake. I heard a popular comedian once say it and I figured others would get it lol.

Yes his history on this site coupled with this post is very worrisome. It is a good thing that neither party has linked up with each other.

Posted June 8th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

actually farting is one of the most intimate things you can do in a relationship.


I don't necessarily disagree with you, and that's somewhat actually what I was getting at: accepting people for their whole (sometimes gross) selves, which is something you don't generally get exposed to during a summer fling. I want to note (preemptively, I guess) that that's different from unconditional love, which is a weird idea. The notion of accepting everything and everyone is altruistic and enlightened and compassionate until it's not -- it's reasonable to have standards for yourself and standards for your partner (sort of in line with Cruinn's quote, "It is gross ... acceptable to everyone.") Though maybe I'm misunderstanding what people mean by this phrase (unconditional love), it seems (romantic) love has more value, actually, if it is conditional. Regarding intimacy I guess it depends on how private you are about farting, lol.

But yeah, I like what you said, SOH, about projection, pedestals and disappointment. I'm not at all surprised that such a post comes from Jubei, as I suspect that it's young men who still have fantasies like these that become incel/MGTOW/so on. This kind of love, if you want to call it that, and I guess I'm not really opposed to calling it that, is naive, even sweet at best (teens), and idiotic and masturbatory at worst (adults). Of relevance, Jubei and I discussed 500 Days of Summer and had different viewpoints of the movie. For Jubei:

Although Zooey Deschanel's Summer in 500 Days of Summer (2009) is often identified as a MPDG, the movie can be seen as a deconstruction of the trope because it shows the dangers of idealising women as things, rather than respecting them as real people with their own complex outlooks. Director Marc Webb stated, "Yes, Summer has elements of the manic pixie dream girl – she is an immature view of a woman. She's Tom's view of a woman. He doesn't see her complexity and the consequence for him is heartbreak. In Tom's eyes, Summer is perfection, but perfection has no depth. Summer's not a girl, she's a phase."


All of this is made worse by this following comment: "she was a lighthouse that guided me through a chaotic sea."


This quote made my bronchitis worse.

Posted June 8th by Ophelia

The Edmund Fitzgerald.

Posted June 8th by Lead by Example

Yeah I'm going ot take him on his word rather than tell him to press a magic button I don't believe in.

If your magic bullet hasn't worked for him thus far consider that maye iut isn't his fault and that yo ur magic solution isn't perfect and infallible.

Edited June 9th by tnu
tnu

Ya know, you keep talking about how "get over it" is just this "magic button" or switch you just flip and it's fine. But a key component to getting over something and moving forward is time. No one does that with the snap of some fingers. It might not be anyone's fault that they have trouble moving on, but if someone refuses to even try to get better, then yeah, yeah it kinda is their fault.

And also, in this case in the thread, you should consider that there is another person whose comfort, well-being, and safety is on the line with his refusal to try and move on after years and years. We're not just talking about someone's obsession over a fictional franchise. Like your obsession with Star Wars is generally harmless to pretty much everyone but yourself. Jubei's obsession is creepy, with implications that he possibly even internet stalked his ex because of it. (Obviously, this is speculation as there wasn't really a response to my question about what he means by saying he "found her" on Facebook, but it's certainly in the realm of possible that he has been actively looking for her on there.) Given how often in real life, people like Jubei wind up harassing, assaulting, or murdering ex-partners, this obsessive behavior and his refusal to "get over it" and move forward with his life can fundamentally be a threatening addition to her life, if she were aware of it.

So yeah, he *needs* to get over it. He needed to put the energy in for years and years to improve his own mental health, and not just for his own sake. The refusal to do so is, indeed, his fault.

Posted June 9th by Jet Presto

and I'm saying time hasn't worked. for him or me. clealry so maybe your "time will inevitably fix it" narrrative is jsut an excuse ot blame him for your "advice" not working.


I won't just stand here and take it while you shove the same garbage down my tghroat and than dismiss and belittle me when I t ry to call ytou out on your garbage.


SO keep your condescendign dismissel to yourself because I'm not going to just sit here and let you feed him the same crap and write me off.


You always dismiss and belittle people whenever "time" or "Moving on" or what ever doesn't work becau se GOD FORBID "moving on" ever not be the perfect answer that CAN"T POSSIBLY FAIL so it HAS to be the other guys fault b3wecause your solution NEVER vails and is COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY PERFECT!


Maybe if you stopped holding blind faith in the infallibility of this garbage you're trying to push and stop blaming the other person when it doesn't work you'd actually get somewhere.

Becuase I refuse to stand aside and let you t ry and bluidgeon yet another perosn over the head with your crap and blame them when it fails.


I have lost all respect for you Jet all y ou do is push your garbage and when it doesn't work you blame and dismiss the other person to continue the delusion of yoru solutions infallability.

Failing that you attempt to bully them in to submission by belittling them at every turn.


There are only two outcomes you accept as valid. Either he tries to move on and evnetually gets the result you insist he will inevitably get because your solution never fails. Or he tries until he dies and it never worked in which case it would have inevitbaly worked had he lived long enough to "do it right" or whatever garbage. Either way your oslution is "keep trying this until you die. If you die witho ut it ever having worked it was your fualt for doing it wrong"

Edited June 9th by tnu
tnu

Moving on has worked for the vast majority of the population. It works you just have a track record of never following through with it.

Posted June 9th by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

your "time will inevitably fix it" narrrative


You're not even paying attention. Feel free to stop posting because you obviously are coming at this from a place of pure hysterical emotion (as per the usual).

Posted June 9th by Cruinn-Annuin

Yeah dismiss eveyr time your solution "fails" and blame the other perosn becuase t he onl76y way your oslution cna eve rfail is if it wans't done right because GOD FOR BID it's not perfect for eveyrone and if I speak out agians tit i'm "hystarical" you bully people in to submission to tyr and force it to work and then you dismiss those it hasn't worked for and mock them!


"If I beat you ove rthe head iwth this oslution and mock you and call you names if it doens't work the way I say it will it iwll eventually work!"

"Oh there's a person it didn't work for!? Well obviously it must be their fault some how so let's just dismiss that person becua se if the solutiond didn't work for them they don't count!"


"so if you don't want to be endlessly mocked, dismissed, and belittled liek the guy it didn't work for you better make it work or we'll balem and attack you until you tell us w hat we want to hear!"


What would prove to you people that it's not this guys fault that this oh so perfect solution ofyours isn't working? becuase as far as I can tell you've deluded yourself in to essnetially syaing eveyr possible configuraiton of variables means that this solution is infallible.

Edited June 9th by tnu
tnu

Fucking look at yourself, man.

Posted June 9th by Cruinn-Annuin

What? my beard is just growing back afte ra clean shave.


and you still havn't answered my question.

Edited June 9th by tnu
tnu

What would prove to you people that it's not this guys fault that this oh so perfect solution ofyours isn't working?

No one's ever said it's your fault. It's not your fault. You just need some help that, for the millionth billionth time, we can't give you.

I also don't think your situation and Jubei's are actually that similar. As Jubei said:

The intensity hasn't been consistently this strong throughout the years. I barely found her on facebook yesterday since we have a mutual friend.

He's a creepy weirdo, but he's not necessarily obsessive.

Posted June 9th by The Bandit

I had a situation like that with an old frined who vanished form my life not usre how much I've talek dbaout it but that seems more comparable wher eit duled for a few years and then got worse. Then when I DO seek "help" and it fails you either don't believe me or say I did't do it right/enough. It's never good enough for you monsters and now you're doing it to someone else/

Edited June 9th by tnu
tnu

Then when I DO seek "help" and it fails you either don't believe me or say I did't do it right/enough.


Because this is typically the case. You make a post one month saying "I'm seeing a therapist" and then often not long after it turns out you stopped going because they said something or suggested something you didn't like/didn't agree with and then you just give up on the whole process.

Even if just moving past it like the vast majority of humanity isn't your solution, you never stick around long enough for professionals to help you find your solution.

Even if the therapist you're seeing isn't right for you, you don't try to find a new one you just give up.

Instead you come here and start discussions about it knowing exactly what we're all going to suggest. Like if you want to just come on here and offload your troubles and have a rant then fair enough (though if it's about star wars for the billionth time then maybe not) but for actual help you need to seek out professionals instead of GTX0.

Posted June 10th by Moonray

yeah "long enough" it's never "long enough" if it doesn't work for someone y ou try to push them back in always teling them it will inevitably worik the longer you beat them over the head with it.

It's never enough for you monsters until people submit to this garbage. Becuase predictably you've come in and said the only reaosn it "failed" wa sbecuase I didn't try "long enough" with the implicaiton that as long as someone tries "long enoguH' it literally is impossible for your beloved institution to ever fail because it is ultiamtley perfect and infallible.



Nothing will eve prove to you that it wasn't the other persons fault it failed because in your minds the only explanation for why it could have failed was that the person "didn't try lonng enough" or "didn't do it right" so you monsters push people back int o that awful place until they're broken!


T he only thing that even gives me rief escape form that place is to tell you monsters wha tyou want to hear and pretend it worked.Becuase t hat's the only ans wer you accept.



and if anybody ever reports failure you alwyas blame it on them and keep trying to push them backm in to that hellhole until the y either submit to it or lie and tell you what yo u want to hear.Because it's always their fualt it failed and you'll make sure they submit to it by continuing to push them in to go ing back and blaming them for it failing.


Utlimatley I'm scared of all the people who keep trying to push that garbage on to others until they submit to it .


I wouldn't go back becuase I think it would work. the only reaosn I'd ever step back in to that is becuas ei know if I didn't you monsters would blame me for it failing until I did.


So I cna't ever report failure because you monsters always give me hell for it.


and I will not watch you push soemone else in to that hell!

Edited June 10th by tnu
tnu

It's never enough for you monsters until people submit to this garbage.

Yes, we're monsters because you're clearly miserable and we want you to not be miserable. This entire post is bullshit. You're trying to act like "moving on" is the cause of your suffering when that is 100% not the case. If it were, you would have never gone to a therapist in the first fucking place. The hell you're describing isn't moving on, it's your depression that existed long before we ever told you to move on.

it literally is impossible for your beloved institution to ever fail because it is ultiamtley perfect and infallible.

No one here gives a shit whether the concept of "moving on" helps you or anyone else. We just want you to actually get help. If that means moving on or figuring out some other way of healthy coping, that's what we all want for you.

Nothing will eve prove to you that it wasn't the other persons fault

I already explained fault to you. This line just proves that you show up here to vent and not actually have any kind of real back and forth. You use us and numerous random threads- whether they're relevant to your situation or not- as a way of dealing with your horrible depression. Not cool. It's not our fault you're miserable anymore than it's your fault, so don't blame us when together we've put hundreds of hours into trying to help you.

If we seem unbelieving that you haven't given it a full effort, it's because of posts like this. You've convinced yourself of things that are clearly untrue. You're projecting your own fucked up issues onto a solution instead of the actual problem, which is essentially saying you'd rather stay miserable than fix your depression. These aren't things people who have actually tried to work through their problems normally do.

Here's something you may not realize, tnu: working through shit can hurt. Sometimes it hurts really bad. It feels like hell. That doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. Ask yourself if you want to be where you are right now in another ten years. Or twenty years. Because it's already been like five and you really aren't any fucking better. I can promise you that blaming "moving on" or yelling at us also isn't going to make you any better either.

Also stop being a fucking asshole to us.

Posted June 10th by The Bandit

still processing a fuller response ot this but one minor thing I'd like to clarify is that I'mtalking about therapy not "moving on" in this cse no matte rhow many times I've gone you've dismissed it and tried to push me back in and the only rason I go at all is to get people off my back about it not becuas ei actualy thin it will achive anyth ing close to a desired result.

and I'm not convinced that anythigns hort of me reporting the result you want will count as a "full effort" there's no such thing in your mind as a "full effort" tht results in failure.

Edited June 10th by tnu
tnu

the only rason I go at all is to get people off my back about it


We already know that you don't want to do the work, but it's nice to see you admit it.

Posted June 10th by Cruinn-Annuin

I'v ebeen in and out of therapy several tiems over the past several years. But I guess none of that counts. No matter how many times or How long I put myself through it it never counts! You act as if I never did it in the first place.

Edited June 10th by tnu
tnu

Here's something you may not realize, tnu: working through shit can hurt. Sometimes it hurts really bad. It feels like hell. That doesn't mean it isn't worth doing. Ask yourself if you want to be where you are right now in another ten years. Or twenty years.

I'm not privy to everything tnu's been through or their issues, but you're like the 4th or 5th person I've seen outside of this thread that said some form of "It's hard and you can't just give up, you have to keep doing." Which leads me to believe tnu either abandons things quickly or doesn't want to bother putting in work (or both).

Posted June 10th by Fox Forever

No matter how many times or How long I put myself through it it never counts! You act as if I never did it in the first place.


Because you're like that frat guy who went to college for a communications degree but who does not have any actual skills because he just partied the whole time and scraped by on exams. Yeah, you "went to college" and "have a degree". What matters is the actual work that you can do.

Therapy isn't like getting your car washed. You can't just sit there and look at your phone while the therapist shovels out the horseshit for you. Therapy is a controlled environment to prompt and help you do the work.

Edited June 10th by Cruinn-Annuin

I've been to the gym SO many times throughout the past several years, and you people just don't believe me when I tell you it doesn't work. What? Weights? Treadmill? No, I didn't do any of those things. Stop acting like I'm not trying!!!

Posted June 10th by The Bandit

I've been to the gym SO many times throughout the past several years, and you people just don't believe me when I tell you it doesn't work. What? Weights? Treadmill? No, I didn't do any of those things. Stop acting like I'm not trying!!!


I FEEL PERSONALLY ATTACKED!

Posted June 10th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

OK Bandit I"ll gie yout hat's a damn convincing analogy worht thinking about though I do have a weigh problem albeit at the opposite end. I have a loot of diffiuclty actually keeping or gaining weight. Though the one difference with that analogy is that it's not just the work.I"m not convinced I"ll like the end result for one reason or another and if they do change me in a way I never wanted I"m not convinced I'll be able to put that weight back on.

and no "thin" is not equal to "happy" in my interperatation of the analogy. The part that scares me isn't the "work" it's the end result because I can forsee the distinct possability of becoming the type of person I don't want to be and it's not a binary black and whitematter of "happy vs unhappy" it's not like the only possability I see comign out of this is "being happy". It's not about any of that because I odn't equate "being someone who moves on rather than stands my ground" iwth happiness.


It seems like to be "happy" I need to neuter my conviction and passion. So it's not about the work as much as it is the risk. the things I"m convinced I'll have to give up forever.


So I am seeing a permanent price to pay for a temporary benefit.

Edited June 10th by tnu
tnu

So I am seeing a permanent price to pay for a temporary benefit.

You have it completely backwards. You're giving up your "conviction" on one tiny, unimportant thing for a massive benefit that will reverberate through the rest of your life. This is assuming you're actually giving up on your conviction, which you of course aren't. You aren't a superman. You aren't an Ayn Rand character. You're just a fucking dude. Accepting that certain things are outside of your control isn't a lack of conviction, it's accepting reality for what it is. I'm sure you think of yourself as a very rational person, but you haven't been acting like one for a long time. You're living in a fantasy world. Star Wars is over. You aren't changing it, and that's ~totally okay.~ It says *nothing* about you as a person.

Of course, all of this is ignoring that if you really had the conviction and the strength of character you think you do, I suspect you'd be able to endure therapy and not come out the other side changed for the worse. Nobody can make you into something that you aren't unless you let them. Avoiding therapy the way you have because you're afraid of some bizarre, imaginary change that you've completely invented isn't a representation of strength, it's just weakness.

Posted June 10th by The Bandit

I don't agree it's not just the one thing from then on I"m stuck with people being able to throw this in my face ot make me giv eup my convicitons again and again and again and I have to repeat the process for the rest of my life. My dedication is like the one thing I have going for me and I"mnot just oging to let it be chipped away at b y giving up sn somethign I genuinley care baout jus tbecuas eothers say it's trivial or a lsot cause. I'd hate myself if I did that. it'snot happieness. Not even close. Not worth dosing it just to ge tthrough a process I'd probably have to repeat somewhere down the line anyway. It's not a benefit that lasts "a lifetime" it's jsut "until the next time"


If either way leaves me doomed to pursue soemthing until it either works or I die then the rout that potentially leads to a result I owuld want more makes more sense to pursue.

Edited June 10th by tnu
tnu

and no "thin" is not equal to "happy" in my interperatation of the analogy


He never set up the goal of being "thin" in the analogy. You're arguing against nothing.

It seems like to be "happy" I need to neuter my conviction and passion. So it's not about the work as much as it is the risk. the things I"m convinced I'll have to give up forever. So I am seeing a permanent price to pay for a temporary benefit.


You would severely benefit from experiencing ego death. You're trying to hold on to things that don't actually exist. The problem with that is that, because they don't actually exist, you can construe anything as a threat to them. If I were feeling less charitable today, I would simply describe this as having your head up your ass.

Posted June 10th by Cruinn-Annuin

At his point I"m not convinced the benefit outweighs the cost period. giving up my conviction and passion for something I'd j ust have to likely redo in a couple of years anyway sounds like a raw deal to me.

Posted June 10th by tnu
tnu

giving up my conviction and passion


It's like you're not even pretending to understand what we're saying. You are coming at this situation from a place that is fundamentally hostile and purposefully ignorant.

Honestly, fuck you. If you want to be continually hostile, then fuck you. Everyone here is trying to explain to you in hundreds of different ways over the years and you're essentially telling us "fuck you" by throwing fucking tantrums every time. So, no, fuck you.

Posted June 10th by Cruinn-Annuin

I fail to see what I"m getting wrong in that. I'm explaining what I percive that I owuld be giving up in exchange and why I'm not convinced it's a worthwhile trade.


Yes I was very hostile because seeing what youw ere tryign to do to Jubei and remembering what it felt like being on his end made me angry. I overreacted because I didn't want him to go through that. If what I was seeking was temporary happieness I could get it at significantly less personal cost. There has to be more to gain than that to justify what I'm giving in exchange.


Besides do I have anything left oging for me if I just admit defeat now? if what Cruinn-Annuin syas is true then I've got nothing else going for me. my principles are al I've got as far as I can tell.


But yeah I'm not a superman @The Bandit my passion and conviction is all I have left inmy faovr at th is point as far as I can tell.


Honestly it's not even about wha tyou all seem to think it is anymore. it's about the firend i lost when I was thirteen and about the people who jsut told me ot "move on" endlessly it's about the times I've been abandoned and left high and dry getitng getitng attached only for people to vanish or decide they have no roomf or me in their lies anymroe.

Edited June 10th by tnu
tnu

I don't agree it's not just the one thing from then on I"m stuck with people being able to throw this in my face ot make me giv eup my convicitons again and again and again and I have to repeat the process for the rest of my life.

This is literally not going to happen. No one cares enough to ever do this to you.

My dedication is like the one thing I have going for me and I"mnot just oging to let it be chipped away at b y giving up sn somethign I genuinley care baout jus tbecuas eothers say it's trivial or a lsot cause.

Your dedication isn't being chipped away, tnu. You aren't giving up by admitting that you can't change your friend situation, or loved ones you've lost, or fucking Star Wars. You're simply finally admitting the truth. Again, this says nothing about you as a person. You are not in control of everything. It's not a personal failure to accept that you can't change something outside of your control.

It's also okay to still be upset about it. I don't know if you think we're trying to tell you to stop caring about it. I'm sure many have because caring about Star Wars is *clearly* hurting you, but it is okay to care. Fuck, I'm still a little upset that we never got a KOTOR 3. I'm still a little upset about Mass Effect 3's ending. I imagine I'll be upset about Game of Thrones for a long time. All of these are "trivial" things, but they were still important to me and I care about them. But I also understand that I can't change them. I don't lack conviction as a person because I recognize my own powerlessness in certain situations, and neither do you.

And OBVIOUSLY it's still okay to be upset about losing loved ones. And "moving on" doesn't mean it doesn't stop hurting. But you have to accept the reality of the situation.

I'd hate myself if I did that.

Why?

Honestly it's not even about wha tyou all seem to think it is anymore. it's about the firend i lost when I was thirteen and about the people who jsut told me ot "move on"

See, I doubt this. Not that losing a friend didn't hurt you or anything, but what exactly is your "conviction and dedication" in regards to losing a friend? I can see how you view yourself as the lone fighter against the evil Disney in regards to Star Wars and why """"giving up"""" would mean you're sacrificing your conviction, but in regards to your friend? Those two don't seem connected to me at all. Maybe you just need to explain what you think your conviction and dedication mean to you and how you would be giving up on them.

Posted June 10th by The Bandit

But yeah I'm not a superman @The Bandit

I genuinely don't think you understand this, to be honest. You seem to think that just because you're a "dedicated" person, that means it's impossible to lose at anything. People with strong convictions lose all the fucking time. That's part of why they have so much conviction. It means very little to be a super dedicated person if you're just constantly succeeding. Adversity and failure is part of character building.

Not that losing a loved one or drifting apart from a friend is losing like it's a fucking game or anything. It's not a failure, but that seems to be how you see it. And this is obviously how you approach the Star Wars situation.

Posted June 10th by The Bandit

It's also okay to still be upset about it. I don't know if you think we're trying to tell you to stop caring about it. I'm sure many have because caring about Star Wars is *clearly* hurting you, but it is okay to care. Fuck, I'm still a little upset that we never got a KOTOR 3. I'm still a little upset about Mass Effect 3's ending. I imagine I'll be upset about Game of Thrones for a long time. All of these are "trivial" things, but they were still important to me and I care about them. But I also understand that I can't change them. I don't lack conviction as a person because I recognize my own powerlessness in certain situations, and neither do you.


most relatable thing you've said so far.

And OBVIOUSLY it's still okay to be upset about losing loved ones. generally I avoid talking abbout thise because it'soutside of my comfort zone.

Maybe you just need to explain what you think your conviction and dedication mean to you and how you would be giving up on them. one is an offshoot of the other. when I just lost touch with a friend who disappeared about 15 years ago I was always told the same crap about how I ha dto "Move on" but I mean as far as I cant ell if it doesn't stop it form hurting it doesn't even really do anything useful I don't want to just forget people and leave them in the dust becuase it's happened otme enough to know what it feels like when people decide the y don't have room for me anymroe.


and to me if it was unimportant enough to let go of I probably didn't care about it to begin with. Just like everybody who threw me aside and left me as a "fond memory" at bes tbecause I no longer fit in to their lives.



Edited June 10th by tnu
tnu

it doesn't even really do anything useful I don't want to just forget people and leave them in the dust becuase it's happened otme enough to know what it feels like when people decide the y don't have room for me anymroe.

Moving on doesn't mean you forget about them, dude. Moving on is literally that dumb Dr. Suess quote: "Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." It's acknowledging that, yes, while whatever happened is over and there's nothing you can do about it, the person or event or whatever still had a positive impact on your life. You're better because you got to experience that thing. The way you act, it seems you would be better off if you'd never even had that friend or got to experience Star Wars or whatever else. That's not the way to live your life or enjoy anything. And I know your attitude affects your enjoyment of new things, please don't deny it, you've said so yourself. You can't be happy experiencing anything because you're terrified of it ending, because you don't know how to process it once it's over. This is why you need a therapist, it's probably not something a fucking Dr. Suess quote will help you with, but maybe it can at least help you understand where we're all coming from.

I gotta be honest dude, if you were my friend and you acted like this, I'd feel disrespected. If you could go back in time and ask your friend while you were together what he or she thinks about how you're honoring your friendship, do you think they'd be happy with how you're approaching those memories? Probably not. They would want you to be happy, not a miserable fucking wreck. Personally, I'd rather you just leave me in the dust if those were my only two options, but those are definitely not the only two options.

Posted June 10th by The Bandit

I just know how awful it felt eveyr time I was left in the dust. why would that just be me?


And I know your attitude affects your enjoyment of new things, please don't deny it,

Yeah I've been pretty transparent about that. It's to prevent situations where the process is ever needed again thus preventing whatever gain there is form "Moving on" from being temporary at best. The gain does not seem worth the trade-off if the process must be repeated.

You say the benefit will "reverberate" through the rest of my life but from what I can tell the benefit only lasts until the next time I have to do it unless there's a crucial detail i'm missing wouldn't the necessity to repeat the process later thus going through the same contemptible state of being negate the "reverberation"?

Edited June 10th by tnu
tnu

Sometimes things do literally last the rest of your life though. Sometimes friendships just work over the long-term, sometimes franchises are long-running, sometimes people stay married, sometimes nostalgic websites outlive the website they were based on. The point of moving on isn't to move on to the next temporary thing, it's to cast aside something that didn't work so you can find something that *does* work. If that new thing fails after 10 years instead of 1 year, then well, you've at least made progress. You've learned something and you can move onto something better that maybe lasts 100 years (ie, something where you'll be dead before it ends).

Posted June 11th by Xhin
Xhin
Nature is beautiful

T Hat's the thing I don't trust this not ot become a re-occuring obligation. and the solution doesn't seem to even work I've tried investing in new people and things several times to no avail. So there's obviously some part of it that is absent or failing.

Posted June 11th by tnu
tnu

I just know how awful it felt eveyr time I was left in the dust. why would that just be me?

It's difficult to respond because I'm not entirely sure what your situation was. There's lots of ways to lose a friend. Death, normal drifting apart, moving away, or a legitimate abandonment where you get "left in the dust." If it is the last one, I can't really help, because I've never experienced that. I'm sure it felt awful though, and you have every right to be upset about it. I guess I would just probably say that you're better than that and they probably did you a favor. I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who was willing to treat someone else like that. Fuck them.

But I suspect it was probably a normal drifting apart kind of thing, as I imagine that's what you would have the most trouble dealing with, but idk.

As far as having to "repeat the process" or whatever, things get easier the more you do them, even horrible things. Not a fun answer, but it's just true.

You know this, though. Like, it's always weird for me when we talk about this, because you *have* moved on in some way, whether you're willing to admit it or not. Using Star Wars as an example, there's no fucking way it hurts just as badly now as it did in the first few days after they announced it. If nothing else, you're no longer dealing with the shock. It's no longer a "I can't fucking believe they did this." You don't wake up forgetting its happened, remembering, and having to relive that pain and disbelief. That's part of moving on. Time does make things a little easier. And the same applies to any other tragic event in your life. It always hurts the most in the immediate aftermath.

I mean fuck, you even said this:

Honestly it's not even about wha tyou all seem to think it is anymore.

In some ways you have moved on. If it's mostly about your friend now as you claim, then you have to have gotten over Star Wars a little bit, because it definitely wasn't always about your friend. And if it was, I'm fucking pissed that you made me read all of that Star Wars shit. Seriously.

T Hat's the thing I don't trust this not ot become a re-occuring obligation.

I just don't get this attitude at all (which again is why you need someone else to help you because I can't empathize). "Cleaning my room is such a pain, so I'll just live in filth." "Having a job sucks, so I'll just be homeless." "I HATE going to the dentist, so I'll just let my teeth rot out." etc. etc. We constantly do shitty things on a regular basis in order to stave off worse things. You're living the worse thing right now.

And don't give me, "I don't think the trade off is worth it!" bullshit. You don't even know. You've been miserable for at least 5 years, most likely much longer. You don't have a fucking clue what it's like to be happy, so how are you possibly in a position to judge whether something is worth it or not? Until you're actually "qualified" to make that judgment as GC/MS would say, I'm not listening to it. It's just a waste of my time. Hell, until you've actually explained all of this shit to a therapist, the conviction thing, your worry that the trade off isn't worth it, Star Wars, your crippling fear of loss and abandonment, *everything*, I'm not buying anymore of your bullshit. I *know* you haven't done therapy like that. You're not in a position to make any judgments about whether it's all worth it or how useful therapy is or whether it will change your principles until you've actually laid all of this out on the table for a professional to deal with and diagnose and treat.

The truth is, you're scared shitless of therapy. Not because of sacrificing your conviction or losing who you are or because you don't think it's worth it, but because therapy is scary. You should be scared! It's hard to make yourself vulnerable, and it's even harder to actually change. It's so much easier to just stay with the status quo. These are reasonable fears. You need to overcome them.

So there's obviously some part of it that is absent or failing.

You know who could probably fill in these absences? Hint: it's not random dumbasses on the Internet like me.

Posted June 11th by The Bandit

So going several times and each time coming ot the same conclusiont hat it istn'f or me will neer be enough? It's a waste of money for a trade I'm not even convinced is worth it and yes it being a re-occuring obligation is a deal breaker. I don't even consider it worth doing ONCE so to do it repeatedly over the course of my life makes it een less convincing of a prospect and it makes the "rverberate for the rest ofyour life" crap really unconvincing. I don't trust these therapists period waste of money. You decidign that i'm not qualified ot decide it's not worth the trade-off is also complete and utter nonsense. You don't have any justification to say "You don't get to decide if the trade is worth it until it's too late" no I decide if the trade is worth it before I make the trade. The trade also entailing being shackled with a repeating obligation to do somethi gn I detest for the rest of my life is also a raw deal as far as i'm concerned


Not worth the cost even the first time let alone repeatedly for the rest of my life that's where I stand ont h is.


Basically your expecting me to make a non-refundable purchase/investment before you accept my judgement as to whether that purchase was worth it and even afterwards you won't accept the judgment I make when expecting me to make the same non-refundable purchase in the future. Even if I spend the money on it you'll say I didn't try the product enough to decide if it was worth the money unless I show a result that confirms what you claim.

You will never concede on this so why should I concede on somethign I actually care about?

Edited June 11th by tnu
tnu

and the solution doesn't seem to even work I've tried investing in new people and things several times to no avail.


Try putting more into friendships than you get back. In my experience, this works very very well for maintaining long-term friendships. Just be sure you can get *something* back from it. Not really much you can do with someone else's creative property though -- if you want to invest in things, make your own things. That way they last as long as you want them to and are as immersive as you want them to be.

or a legitimate abandonment where you get "left in the dust." If it is the last one, I can't really help, because I've never experienced that.


Oh man I have. It suuuuuucks. I do feel like it does come down to how much give-and-take there is in your friendship though -- if you're giving a lot, you're going to be a fixture in their life so this "leaving you in the dust" thing just doesn't happen. Unfortunately, as with all good wisdom, I had to learn this the hard way.

But I suspect it was probably a normal drifting apart kind of thing, as I imagine that's what you would have the most trouble dealing with, but idk.


I feel like drifting apart is always mutual. You might look back on it later and be like "wtf, where did that good friend / family member go" but at the time you're both just busy with other things.

Time does make things a little easier. And the same applies to any other tragic event in your life


This is definitely true. A big thing for me that I've noticed is that the pain just becomes part of who you are. You don't recover from it, but it isn't some weighty burden either, it just becomes part of your personality. A lot later it'll inform your decisions and contribute to your unique brand of cynicism.

It's hard to make yourself vulnerable, and it's even harder to actually change


Well, on the plus side, the longer you're miserable (and the worse it gets), the more open you get about your vulnerability -- in a lot of ways you actually *become* it.

Not worth the cost even the first time let alone repeatedly for the rest of my life that's where I stand ont h is.


Well, don't do it then. I've never done it, and I've had some pretty terrible emotional issues -- my strategy is to just let things fester until making positive life-altering change is the easier option. Lately that's kind of turned into an angry "I deserve better" attitude, which is working really well.


Posted June 11th by Xhin
Xhin
Nature is beautiful

I feel like drifting apart is always mutual. You might look back on it later and be like "wtf, where did that good friend / family member go" but at the time you're both just busy with other things.

in my experience it really really isn't. people just vanish in to thier new lives wher ehtewy don't have time or space for you because everything else is more important so you get some bullcrap of being a "fond memory" at best.



Posted June 11th by tnu
tnu

in my experience it really really isn't. people just vanish in to thier new lives wher ehtewy don't have time or space for you


Yeah that's "leaving you in the dust"-style abandonment. Totally different situation.

so you get some bullcrap of being a "fond memory" at best.


Going to assume the person in question was female and on the internet. This happens a LOT with that particular demographic.

Posted June 11th by Xhin
Xhin
Nature is beautiful

often enugh but not consistently. i'm speaking ab out a large number of people over al arge ammount of time. I'm not wiling to commit to gambling away something I know is valuable to me for something that I'm convinced is a crapshoot at best and one I don't have confidence in at that.


Part of me wants ot tell off eveyrone who "moved on" from me and left me in the dust for treating me like yesterdyas garbage.

Edited June 11th by tnu
tnu

The kind of happiness that you need is not one that comes from other people. Knock out that leg and you're broken, so you should strengthen the legs that can maintain that stability. The one that can never leave: yourself. That is what you need. You need to find the right way, but how do you help someone who mentally does not want to be convinced that there are better ways? You can't. It's on you to make that change, much as me or anyone else on here wants to help, and believe me, we do.

Posted June 11th by LLight

w hich brings to my mind one reason I don't wantto be pushed back in to therapy. payig money for someone I'm not coninced can do anything different or better for an end result i'm not even convinced on.

Edited June 12th by tnu
tnu
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