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Game of Thrones S8 E1 Discussion (spoilers)
Posted: Posted April 15th
Edited April 15th by Vandy

Thought it would be interesting to see what you guys think about the show.

With only 6 episodes to work with I thought it started out pretty slow. It doesn't seem like much happened. The plot with Theon, Euron and Yara is the least interesting for me (which sucks because Theon chapters in the book are some of my favorites) and so to see it take up what felt like 1/3 of the episode was disappointing. I also understand that the north is wary of trusting a foreign Targaryen queen that they have never seen before, but also you have an undead army of 100,000 coming for you just a few days away soooo ... maybe just accept the army + dragons for help for the time being? If you trusted Jon a few months ago to elect him as your king then shouldn't you trust his decision to do what it takes to get the help you need to survive?

I'm of the group that prefers the books at this point but I always try to view the show from a point of optimism. To me it's an alternate universe. And though it has its faults, I think they do a lot of things really well. Great casting, great costume design, great sets. However it's hard not to notice the drop in writing quality since Season 4 and beyond. It seems to be more about the spectacle of dragons and big battles now rather than interesting characters. And they do those things really well. I will just keep waiting for the rest of the books for the finer details that the show is now lacking.

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I'd say the big issue the Northerners have is that Jon is declaring fealty for a Targaryan (their enemy during Robert's Rebellion, a family deemed mad), who heads an army of foreigners with a Lannister in a position of power. And considering the recent fracture of the north under the Boltons, I think it's fair game for them to be suspicious of Dany, and angry at Jon for surrendering his crown without council after leaving them for god knows how long.

Also, after the whole "teleporting across Westeros and back in one episode" pace of Season 7, I guess I appreciated that this episode, at least, felt like it was actually taking its time with its characters. Decent start so far.

Posted April 15th by Orion Nebula

Also, yeah, the Greyjoy story literally just feels like treading water. There's nothing substantial or interesting about it, especially after they regressed Theon's arc further last season by having him jump overboard.

Posted April 15th by Orion Nebula

It did seem like a little bit of a slow start, but I assume it's just getting the character moments out of the way so we can get to the fighting.

Posted April 15th by Count Dooku

I like the show a lot and I'm extremely excited for the remaining episodes, but it really is a shame that GRRM couldn't just fucking finish his books before the show got to this point. The first few seasons were excellent, absolutely top notch, and as soon as source material ran out the quality dropped like a rock.

Posted April 15th by The Bandit

I actually rather liked the slower start to the season, mainly because I was worried that the show wouldn't have time to give any of these long-awaited reunions time to breathe. And yeah, they probably really didn't have time, but I'm glad they at least tried to give us some of those solid character moments that have helped to set this show apart from the start. That said, I have no idea how they're supposed to wrap up the Night King storyline, the Cersei storyline, and the eventual ruler of Westeros storyline while also giving at least our major characters (Jon, Daenerys, the Lannisters, and the remaining Starks at an absolute minimum) satisfying conclusions to their arcs. I think that part of the show's decline in quality, in addition to running out of source material, is that they set this hard limit and realized they had to start culling their storylines. A lot of the exits/deaths in the past couple of seasons have felt much more like the showrunners clearing the table of storylines they realized they didn't have time to deal with rather than happening organically, and they still have so many more left over. I'm definitely of the opinion that the show got quite a bit worse after Season 4 (though it's still managed to churn out some top-tier episodes like "Hardhome" and "The Winds of Winter"), and I'm not really seeing how they're going to wrap this up in a satisfactory manner. Hopefully they can prove me wrong, though!

Edited April 15th by white lancer


Posted April 15th by Count Dooku

So yeah, I agree with you guys, episode 1 was way way too slow for a 6-episode conclusion. Though the armies are apparently all in one place now (including jaime's), so maybe we'll start to see actual stuff happening next episode.

A few things I liked:

A lot of things I didn't like:

Edited April 16th by Xhin
Nature is beautiful

I think that part of the show's decline in quality, in addition to running out of source material, is that they set this hard limit and realized they had to start culling their storylines.

100%. I understand wanting to end your story so it doesn't turn out like the Meereenese knot, but after a point it really felt like D&D just wanted to be done with the show so they could focus on their next project. They started bending the rules of the world just so they could map out their endgame more easily; and by extension, much more conventionally.


@white lancer, Dooku:

Posted April 16th by Orion Nebula

I missed last episode

Posted April 16th by Henry paul

Though the armies are apparently all in one place now (including jaime's)

I thought he came alone after turning on Cersei.

Posted April 16th by Moonray

I thought he came alone after turning on Cersei.

Jaime came alone. Even then, how much of a Lannister army is there after they got torched by Dany and her Dothraki army in Season 7?

Posted April 16th by Vandy

the Golden Company was running a sale (elephants not included); I'm sure she has plenty of well-earned and totally justified soldiers

"She's the smartest person I know" is some revisionist bullshit by the showrunners.
so tired of this shit

Posted April 16th by Pirate_Ninja

"She's the smartest person I know" is some revisionist bullshit by the showrunners.

It's a lot like how Arya is an expert swordsman able to take down Brienne of fucking Tarth after bathing corpses and getting beat with wooden sticks in Braavos.

Edited April 16th by Vandy

arya put a load of skill points into agility, whereas brienne used a thunderstone too early and never learned it

(I'm a fan of arya tbh but the show reeeeeally rushed her along, yeah)

Posted April 16th by Pirate_Ninja

I haven't watched the show since Season 4, but I did have a thought about one sentiment in this thread, regarding "rewarding Daenerys with the Iron Throne."

From what I've seen of the show, she always seemed to be in this position of sometimes trying to do the right thing, but never really considering the consequences. Nor did she seem to ever well-handle subsequent fallout from even righteous decisions. She also has had a tendency to feel that by at least occasionally being a vaguely righteous ruler, she is entitled to the love of the people, yet since the beginning of the show, she never really gets it in earnest.

If she were to "win" the Iron Throne, I'm not so sure that that would be "rewarding" her. So much of her plot in the first four seasons were about her experiencing the burden of leadership. She grows more comfortable and empowered to action as it goes on, but she never seems to actually get what she truly wants (admiration). Basically, I might make a case that her sitting on the Iron Throne - especially in a world that will almost certainly be in need of some major rebuilding after the White Walkers and just the natural chaos in these years from the human drama - would not net her what she actually wants.

It would make some sense for Jon Snow to get the Throne, too, given his resemblance to King Arthur. I know the biggest reason I don't really like GoT overall is that I don't want to spend that much time on a show that is just almost nonstop misery and features too few decent people worth caring about, but the show has always featured "good" characters, and they haven't all been horribly slaughtered. If Martin pulls from mythology and history, it is worth noting that both do feature decent people. I could also see - given the propensity to go against the traditional fantasy expectations - that GoT has ultimately created its own tropes and expectations. The reason listed in this thread for why Jon Snow won't likely gain the throne is exactly because "Game of Thrones doesn't really reward the good or heroic figures." It could be a subversion to their own subversion, basically, to have him end on the Throne. Jon has also, from what I've read at least, been one of the few characters to cultivate alliances through noble behavior and succeed, a sort of Ned Stark influence on him. It is possible that the show itself might actually want to show that maaaaybe tyrants aren't always successful, and sometimes, genuinely good leadership does account for something. (History is full of scenarios where a fair or just leader has brought positive things to a people, too.) So I don't think it would be terribly out of character for the show to have Jon Snow end up there.

(My bet is on either no one really sitting on the Iron Throne at the end, or just that it doesn't really matter because there isn't much of a kingdom to rule over anyway. Or, I dunno, a child or someone pretty uninvolved in the current on-goings. But I dunno. I only know what I read from my Twitter feed.)

Posted April 16th by Jet Presto

The Iron Throne:

The reunions:

The Starks and the Lannisters:

The White Walkers:

Edited April 16th by white lancer

100% guaranteed accurate Cersei spoilers:

Posted April 16th by Pirate_Ninja

Posted April 16th by white lancer

now you're thinking with dragons!

Posted April 17th by Pirate_Ninja

It's a lot like how Arya is an expert swordsman able to take down Brienne of fucking Tarth after bathing corpses and getting beat with wooden sticks in Braavos.

That one's a little easier to swallow though (imo), since Arya being lethal with a blade was something foreshadowed, and there's no way Brienne actually took that spar seriously. For one, she's fighting a little girl she's sworn to protect; and two, the water-dancing probably threw her off-guard.

But I still totally agree - Arya's Braavos arc felt like it was missing its entire second act, and as a result, her transformation feels a bit unrewarded.

Edited April 17th by Orion Nebula

@white lancer:

Posted April 23rd by Xhin
Nature is beautiful

Posted April 24th by white lancer


Posted April 24th by Pirate_Ninja
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