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WARNING: Posts may contain offensive content and red wine
09/11/2001 WE REMEMBER

"Fear is the foundation of most governments." - John Adams

"My family is more important than my party." - Zell Miller

French Anticapitalists celebrate May Day with peaceful protests and thought provoking dialogue; all parties involved come away
with more enlightened outlook on differences separating political groups
Posted: Posted May 2nd by Dr. Doom

Just kidding they're terrorists.


(Reuters) - Hundreds of masked and hooded anarchists smashed shop windows, torched cars and hurled cobblestones at riot police on Tuesday, hijacking a May Day rally by labour unions against President Emmanuel Macron's economic reforms.

Riot police used teargas and water cannon to disperse the protesters. Paris police chief Michel Delpuech said more than 200 demonstrators had been arrested and four people were lightly injured in the clashes, including a police officer.

"I condemn with absolute firmness the violence that took place today and derailed the May Day processions," tweeted Macron, who was on a visit to Australia.


"Everything will be done so that the perpetrators are identified and held responsible for their actions."

Authorities said around 1,200 protesters, many garbed in black, had turned up on the sidelines of the annual May Day demonstration. The protesters were from far-left anarchist groups known as Black Blocs, police said.

Government spokesman Benjamin Griveaux criticised the protesters for covering their faces. "When you have sincere convictions, you demonstrate with your face unmasked," he said. "Those who wear hoods are the enemies of democracy."

Chanting anti-fascist slogans and waving Soviet flags and anti-government banners, the protesters smashed windows of businesses, including a Renault garage and McDonalds restaurant near the Austerlitz train station in eastern Paris.

They also ransacked shops and scrawled anti-capitalist graffiti on walls before eventually being dispersed by police.

David Le Bars, a police union official, told BFM TV that security services had decided to let the protesters smash things rather than engage them to avoid casualties on either side that could exacerbate tensions.

"They came to hit capitalist symbols and burn cops. When you come with Molotov cocktails, it's to burn cops," he said, citing clashes on May 1 last year in which one police officer was seriously burnt.


Unions put the number of peaceful protesters at Tuesday's main May Day rally in Paris at about 55,000, though police put it at around 20,000. The numbers were relatively small compared to other recent demonstrations.

Police said the Black Blocs had mixed into a smaller demonstration of around 14,500 people which took place alongside the official union rally.

Tuesday's clashes come amid mounting union discontent with Macron's plans to reboot France's economy and spur jobs growth by loosening labour regulations.

Under a union campaign to foil Macron's reforms, railway staff have begun three months of nationwide rolling strikes aimed at halting a planned overhaul of state-run railway SNCF.

Speaking in Australia earlier on Tuesday Macron, a former investment banker who swept to power a year ago, reiterated that he would not back down on his reform agenda.

Opposition conservative and far-right politicians accused Macron's government of being insufficiently prepared for the violent protests and criticised it for not cracking down more heavily on anarchists.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-may-day-france/riot-police-masked-protesters-clash-at-paris-may-day-rally-idUSKBN1I23TG

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There are 31 Replies

He's not blaming the people on both sides? Smh

Posted May 2nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

There was only one side though. Security guards stood aside in order to prevent casualties and their bloodlust for McDonald's was still not appeased.

Posted May 2nd by Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
 

Dis they use a car

Posted May 2nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

They started fires, destroyed private property, burned one police officer, left threatening graffiti. They even waved the flag of the Soviet union. I imagine there were some who said "The Soviets will rise again!!" Before taking a swig of moonshine.

Any way, my takeaway from all this is that far left ideologies are inherently toxic, divisive and violent. Often times people blame their terrorism on the existence if alt right protests in the same area, but I think it's pretty dumb to say that because it's as if Marxists and anarchists ever needed a motivation for violence outside of their own ideology. The fact that they show up to rallies.like these, where everyone agrees with them, and still find an excuse to commit terrorist acts is pretty telling about them.

Posted May 2nd by Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
 

I don't see many agreeing with them. The further you get to the left and right the more dangerous and violent the ideology and those spewing it become. Its pretty ignorant to ignore the toxicity of the far right.


Also the fact that they waved the flag of the soviet union proves they aren't real anarchist. Just a bunch of idiots creating havoc at the tax payers expense.

I'm surprised that the French are even condemning them. A large percentage of Frenchys aren't fans of the capitalist system and love their welfare state.

Posted May 2nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Perhaps you're not aware of the definition of anarchist.

anarchist /ˈanərkəst/ noun:

A bunch of idiots creating havoc at the taxpayer's expense.


That most self styled anarchists ultimately end up supporting or apologizing for various top down Marxist dictatorships helps inform us what they're really about. That is to say, there is no such thing as an anarchist, unless of course we want to count ancaps and since there are so few of those we can easily complete that count with our fingers before moving on to more interesting and non imaginary forms of government.

Posted May 2nd by Famov
Famov

Any way, my takeaway from all this is that far left ideologies are inherently toxic, divisive and violent. Often times people blame their terrorism on the existence if alt right protests in the same area


But just completely ignore the far-right and all it does and continues to do and how capitalism could be seen to perpetuate that by a similar logic that lol. Just ignore all of the other violence and very negative intervention capitalists have done across the world. Just ignore all the times capitalist intervention has actually helped cause opposing systems to fail and become what they are. Just ignore pretty much everything about reality, and ya the "far-left" which I'm sure also just includes a lot of the left to you is the only inherent evil out there.


The problem is, like always you're looking at the loud and worst and generalizing it without looking at similar flaws within your own ranks.

Edited May 2nd by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

Perhaps you're not aware of the definition of anarchist.


Again, taking the vocal worst and generalizing.

That most self styled anarchists ultimately end up supporting or apologizing for various top down Marxist dictatorships


Wow you really do know nothing. Are you even going to source this absolutely ridiculous claim?

That is to say, there is no such thing as an anarchist,


So if you want anarchy but you say some shit about the soviet union or do some shit to get a rise out of people you're not an anarchist? Like who cares what shit they say they're still anarchist in ideology. That's not even counting the many anarchists who don't even fall into this category. Again, completely ridiculous and baseless claim and I do wonder how any normal brain could come up with it. Maybe do some actual research and look at actual anarchists beyond news headlines and what other right-leaning types tell you who will confirm your preexisting bias that all of the "far-left" is exactly the same.

But, given what you said yesterday about the "left" in the Kanye thread I assume you already generalize most of the left regardless so there may just be no hope for you if you aren't even seeking to have an open mind.

Like of course anarchists exist. The fact that I have to even tell you this just leaves me wondering why I have to tell you this.

unless of course we want to count ancaps


"only ancaps can be anarchists". Again. Gonna need a source for this insane claim.

and since there are so few of those


The fuck are you talking about? Ancaps are one of the largest anarcho ideologies.

Edited May 2nd by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

The further you get to the left and right the more dangerous and violent the ideology and those spewing it become


If it's specifically encouraging the form of violence being displayed sure. But otherwise any relevant ideology can and has turned violent by their logic. Honestly just blame the people involved rather than their ideology unless there is a very specific reason to blame the ideology which no one seems capable of doing for some reason.

I'm surprised that the French are even condemning them. A large percentage of Frenchys aren't fans of the capitalist system and love their welfare state.


Probably because they aren't a hivemind about it and thet don't behave like, or like what these guys are doing.

Edited May 2nd by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

Sorry Famov by definition anarchist dont support the state. Real anarchist would be bashing communist and capitalist pigs not apologizing for the actions of the soviet union.


The "Anarchist ideology" practiced by these individuals is on par with the democratic ideology practiced by the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea.


Non existent.



Posted May 2nd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

Ya. Quite a few of the anarcho ideologies are questionably anarchist, but indeed that doesn't change the fact that actual anarchists exist either way. Which why either way I look at it "anarchists don't exist" is such a weird thing to say.

Edited May 2nd by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

Sorry Famov by definition anarchist dont support the state.

And by definition no true Scotsman would ever commit a logical fallacy, but I'll bet that some do anyway.



What if I told you (feel free to imagine this coming from Morpheus if it helps) that self described anarchists are so in the tank on Marxist propagandizing that their self perception may not be entirely accurate. Because here's the thing: All Communists, even Stalinists, are anarchists by definition. Just ask them! But it doesn't matter because they're obviously wrong. The destruction of property, the political violence, the apologizing for totalitarian regimes like Cuba and Venezuela is demonstrative of what they actually are. Fundamentally illiberal, most if not all "anarchists" would readily support a totalitarian leader that sang the right song, and we know this because they've done just that countless times before.

Here's a thought experiment for you: Explain why self described anarchists are so warm towards Bernie Sanders, even though he ran on a platform of greatly expanding the size and scope of government? Would the paradoxically fascist anti fascists be proselytizing their fascism had Hillary Clinton won instead of Donald Trump? Or are they instead an unmistakably reactionary group responding to the result of a free and fair election by trying to undermine the very institutions that make these elections possible?

My larger point, if it isn't obvious, is that I reject utopianism as meaningful politics. Anarchism is utopian because it describes a nebulous mass of people somehow coming to the conclusion that they all have precisely the same interests and that those interests are to overthrow our mechanisms of republican government (and also rich people) and then collectively rule in perpetuity. And they all lived happily ever after, the end. It's a dangerously unserious way of engaging with politics, but it's never stopped them before.

The fuck are you talking about? Ancaps are one of the largest anarcho ideologies.

And yet they still don't have enough people to get a good game of Euchre going. I mean, I always figured those humorless "muh roads" memes had to come from somewhere but honestly they're all so indicative of a very particular point on the spectrum that I just assumed one guy made them all. They assign everyone that isn't them the label of "statist" because the intellectual position they find themselves in cannot tolerate the slightest deviation of opinion.

Posted May 2nd by Famov
Famov

"Just kidding they're terrorists."

you have to be a serious bootlicker to equate smashing up a mcdonalds with terrorism

Posted May 2nd by poptart!
poptart!
 

i'm not naive enough to call myself an anarchist, but i do spend time lurking in anarchist circles, and you're full of shit if you think anarchists support bernie or hillary, famov. most of these people don't even vote.

also, you're right that marxist-leninists and anarchists show up to the same protests and black bloc together, but the two groups hate each other almost as much as they hate capitalism.

Edited May 2nd by poptart!
poptart!
 

Like I said they dont follow the definition of anarchism.

They can slap on any label they want (something those on the far left do daily) and they still wouldnt be anarchist until they carry out the definition of anarchism and adhere to it. The majority of real anarchist died out in the early 20th century. What we have now does not come close to fitting the void they left behind. Ill touch more on this at some later point in time.


Posted May 2nd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

you have to be a serious bootlicker to equate smashing up a mcdonalds with terrorism


Dont forget they suffer from mental illness if they are white beta males smashing up the street and running over people with their cars :^)

Posted May 2nd by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

"most if not all 'anarchists' would readily support a totalitarian leader that sang the right song, and we know this because they've done just that countless times before."

this is historically wrong btw. the anarchists who aligned themselves with communisms ended up getting murdered because working with totalitarian pigs is, it turns out, a bad idea.

Posted May 2nd by poptart!
poptart!
 

Famov even then people work with what they got. If an anarchist can not achieve anarchy then the logical thing to do is to support whoever would seem best for them plus as poptart said many don't even vote. And frankly there have been some anarchist theories floating around about how an authoritarian regime can be used to properly prepare a society for anarchy and then it would disband this isn't a popular idea for obvious reasons THOUGH. There are potential problems with that of course and it would require some really dedicated people to be in charge of it, but that doesn't sound like the worst vague way of implementing anarchy imo. None of this however means they aren't anarchists. You're also making the assumption that most anarchists immediately goes straight for the "totalitarian" without even citing why you think this and you falsely assume that most anarchists are somehow all also marxists even though that makes no sense at all and they have a history of opposing marxists when push came to shove. Also I'm fairly sure Bernie was pretty mild, it's just our often very centrist politics makes his policies seem so extreme in comparison.

All Communists, even Stalinists, are anarchists by definition


... where do you come up with these wacky ideas?

fascist anti fascists


Wew. I remember when I was starting to fall for that nonsense.

The destruction of property, the political violence, the apologizing for totalitarian regimes like Cuba and Venezuela is demonstrative of what they actually are


Or uh. Maybe just that some specific anarchists have favorism? You're really overthinking this.

Edited May 2nd by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

this is historically wrong btw.

thats famov in a nutshell lol

Posted May 2nd by s.o.h.
s.o.h.
 

you have to be a serious bootlicker to equate smashing up a mcdonalds with terrorism

Using violence and intimidation as political statements or to secure political objectives is definitively terrorism though. They started fires that harmed other people as well. I don't suppose they have to run someone over with a car before I'm allowed to regard them as scumbag terrorists.

Posted May 2nd by Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
 

Its pretty ignorant to ignore the toxicity of the far right

I don't ignore it. But here we have an instance of the far left in an environment of people protesting for something they support, where none of their enemies are, and yet they still found an excuse to start violence. And even when they deserve unequivocal condemnation there are still some who want us to believe that their violence only exists because of their victimhood, which is a privilege anti-capitalists seem to enjoy pretty universally when they riot like this.

Posted May 2nd by Dr. Doom
Dr. Doom
 

there are still some who want us to believe that their violence only exists because of their victimhood


I bet you falsely believe I was saying that too huh? Course you won't admit to thinking that now that I pointed it out. I'm simply saying you're generalizing and there is no inherent evil to be found, except with people who are specifically susceptible to doing these things for one reason or another regardless of their ideology.

Show me something that makes them inherently behave like that that isn't just taking some people and acting like they represent all. Show me something to do with their ideology that inherently makes them this way.

But here we have an instance of the far left in an environment of people protesting for something they support, where none of their enemies are, and yet they still found an excuse to start violence


It's almost like this isn't the first time this happened and the far-left aren't the first ones to do it. No one is making excuses for it.

which is a privilege anti-capitalists seem to enjoy pretty universally when they riot like this.


And do think all anti-capitalists are like this for some reason?

Edited May 2nd by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

We are gonna need a lot of Dodge Challengers.

Posted May 3rd by #85
#85



And do think all anti-capitalists are like this for some reason?


I hope he says yes. Because the vast majority of the French are anti capitalist

Posted May 3rd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

at what point do we start taking #85's threats of terrorism seriously?

Posted May 3rd by poptart!
poptart!
 

Don't see any threats anywhere.

Posted May 3rd by #85
#85

Don't see any threats anywhere.


I mean tbh it's pretty obvious what you meant by

We are gonna need a lot of Dodge Challengers.



Edited May 3rd by KnokkelMillennium
KnokkelMillennium

@Famov:

"My larger point, if it isn't obvious, is that I reject utopianism as meaningful politics"

lol you, the guy who believes in values and principles above all else (see your penny arcade comic) should at least be able to respect the anarchists' rejection of authority on principle, despite the realism of it (in the same way that ayn rand's nonsense is utopian)

Posted May 6th by poptart!
poptart!
 

brutal footage of #85's radical pro-Western activism
https://twitter.com/ASN_Austin/status/991660136434421762

Posted May 6th by Pink Peruvian Flying Bear
Pink Peruvian Flying Bear

lmfao



Edited May 10th by poptart!
poptart!
 

April 11 to May 1


training for less than a month


DYEL

Posted May 10th by nullfather
nullfather
Reply to: French Anticapitalists celebrate May Day with peaceful protests and thought provoking dialogue; all parties involved come away
with more enlightened outlook on differences separating political groups

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