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Politics & Religion


World events, politics and whatever (especially whatever)
WARNING: Posts may contain offensive content and red wine
09/11/2001 WE REMEMBER

"Fear is the foundation of most governments." - John Adams

"My family is more important than my party." - Zell Miller


Do the right thing. Hand in your firearm today and tell your neighbor to do the same. For the sake of smart, articulate, and mature children like David Hogg, we must protect them by handing in our guns. I've never owned a firearm so I get extra credit! But it's not too late! Do your part!

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There are 37 Replies

"For the children!"

Supports Planned Parenthood.

Posted May 30th by #85
#85

There are millions of sperm inside of you that die on a daily basis. Don't equate fetuses with actual, living, breathing children that have lives, friends, and dreams.

Posted May 30th by mariomguy
mariomguy

David Hogg is a better troll without even trying than anyone on the alt-right. It’s so easy to troll the alt-right. Just be a decent human being.

Posted May 30th by pacman
pacman
 

I am anti baby murder. Yes I am aware of what kind of shit storm I may be getting myself into.

Edited May 30th by Jo Nathan
Jo Nathan

I am as well. However every one has their own reasons for homicide and while I would prefer if abortion was only used in cases of rape, if the mothers life is in danger and if the fetus is going to be born with a serious abnormality.

However like my fellow friends on the right like to remind us if we ban guns people will still find a way to obtain them. The same argument applies to abortion.

Statistically the number of abortions have gone down tremendously since abortion was legalized.


I don't like it any more than any of you but it is a fact we cannot dismiss.

It is also worth noting that no federal funding goes to "killing babies". Medicaid is utilized like any other type of insurance to cover the various preventive medical services planned parenthood provides.

It is also worth pointing out that one can only get an abortion covered by medicaid in 15 states. But we love our states rights right?





Edited May 30th by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Lol @ equating the lives of kids who loved, hated and experienced the full spectrum of human thought, emotion and experience with a nonsentient, barely fertilized fetus. What a country we live in lol

Posted May 30th by pacman
pacman
 

In cases where the mother's life is in danger, I wholly agree with you. I have things I could say but I guess this thread was not supposed to be about abortion anyway so I'll just keep it to myself at this time.

Hogg was unfortunate in having to suffer a tragedy like he did. That doesn't magically make him a gun expert though, and him calling gun owners "child murderers" is honestly quite a disgusting thing to do.

Posted May 30th by Jo Nathan
Jo Nathan



Edited May 30th by Jo Nathan
Jo Nathan

Controversial opinion: One need not be a “gun expert” to have an opinion on gun control, as the issue affects everyone.

Edited May 30th by pacman
pacman
 

Lol @ equating the lives of kids who loved, hated and experienced the full spectrum of human thought, emotion and experience with a nonsentient, barely fertilized fetus. What a country we live in lol


Well that barely fertilized fetus have the potential to love, hate and experience the full spectrum of human thought. It is not only wrong for us to rob them of that potential but hypocritical to dismiss them while advocating for the lives of children who were in their position just a few years ago.

We have to decide whether or not all life has value and if people have the right to live. If it is a yes then we have to give people access to both healthcare and education for they can fully live and sustain their lives. (those two subjects being national security issues in their own right, along with giving people a livable wage) If we choose no, than we should fully legalize abortion but remind people that the government does not owe its citizens a goddamn thing in regards to free healthcare or education.

Choosing yes has some wiggle room in utilizing abortion only for the most extreme cases. I would rather go with Option A. But I am game for Option B as well. (as I can argue education and healthcare are national security issues respectively)

Edited May 30th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

Controversial opinion: One need not be a “gun expert” to have an opinion on gun control, as the issue affects everyone.


This is true. I believe that gun control also means holding our law enforcement agencies accountable. The FBI had been warned multiple times of the various shooters weeks and or months before said shooters carried out their attacks. They failed to prevent them.

Imo that is the far bigger issue. What good are these gun control laws if our law enforcement agencies fail to enforce them?

Posted May 30th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

Obviously there is a big difference between a fetus and a child who's experienced emotion and gained some knowledge of the world.

You could say the same thing about a new-born baby and a child. Is it ok to kill newborn babies? Can we legalize post-birth abortion like what Pakistan has been doing to baby girls?

Where exactly do we draw the line and say "hey, this is a human life and it must be protected"?

When a baby is in the womb, if left to its own devices it will become a sentient human being, and that is enough for me to want to protect it. Even if you think I'm wrong, the only thing I'm hypothetically guilty of is being overzealous with wanting to protect human life, and I really don't see why that is such a horrible, offensive thing to some people.

----

Re: "gun expert" etc. It's true you don't need to be an expert on something to have an opinion. I do think that someone hurling themselves into the politics of something and trying to get legislation passed on it should at least know what they're talking about, and honestly I don't think anyone who goes around calling all gun owners "child murderers" should be in a position to be proposing legislation. That's all.

Edited May 30th by Jo Nathan
Jo Nathan

Where exactly do we draw the line and say "hey, this is a human life and it must be protected"?

At the point of near-human sentience, around the third trimester or later. I have a similar opinion when it comes to the animals we kill and eat, but that’s a separate (and far more convoluted) issue.

Posted May 30th by pacman
pacman
 

When a baby is in the womb, if left to its own devices it will become a sentient human being, and that is enough for me to want to protect it. Even if you think I'm wrong, the only thing I'm hypothetically guilty of is being overzealous with wanting to protect human life, and I really don't see why that is such a horrible, offensive thing to some people.


Based on your logic I am going to assume you are pro healthcare and education?

Posted May 30th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

For me it's about the potential for sentience, and I guess this is where I would opt to respectfully agree to disagree.

Based on your logic I am going to assume you are pro healthcare and education?


Can you be more specific? I think heathcare and education are things that definitely should exist but I don't think I'm understanding your question fully.

Posted May 30th by Jo Nathan
Jo Nathan

This is true. I believe that gun control also means holding our law enforcement agencies accountable. The FBI had been warned multiple times of the various shooters weeks and or months before said shooters carried out their attacks. They failed to prevent them

ABSOLUTELY!

The FBI was a total failure on several of these incidents, as was the Parkland cop who refused to intervene.

Anecdote: Recently there was a potential school shooting close to where I live. Fortunately the school officer attempted to confront the kid and, after having a shot fired at him, hit the gunman with a shot to the shoulder, detained/arrested him and took him into custody so the justice system could deal with him. Exactly the way law enforcement should act. I consider this guy a hero and think all law enforcement should behave with the same firm yet restrained confidence as opposed to this cowardly “shoot to kill first, ask questions later” mentality that is drilled into modern police by police academies and training vids. If you’re afraid to confront and afraid to die, you’re too much of a bitch to be a cop in this country. Period.

Edited May 30th by pacman
pacman
 

Controversial opinion: One need not be a “gun expert” to have an opinion on gun control, as the issue affects everyone.


As one of the people typically coming off as a "gun expert" in these situations, I agree. You do not need to have my level of knowledge about guns. You do, however, have to have some modicum of knowledge about the subject in order to have a valid opinion.

I have talked with people about this subject who have a very strong and self-assured opinion about what needs to be done about things like the gun show loophole, despite not knowing what the gun show loophole actually is. I've seen people vehemently arguing for the banning of "assault"-style firearms, without knowing that there is no standardized legal definition, or even what would constitute such a definition if it did exist. Hell, the manager that taught me gun sales procedure thought that the "AR" in "AR-15" stood for "assault rifle".

I have bought and sold guns both in a private and professional capacity. I've been to more gun shows than I can remember. I've shipped and received guns across state lines. I've dealt with FFL holders. I've done LTC certification. This doesn't make me a firearm law genius, but it does give me a foundation to stand on. It's a foundation that many critics of firearm law and dipshit activists that berate firearm owners quite simply do not have - and it becomes very obvious when you actually chase their arguments down to the base assumptions.

Posted May 30th by nullfather
nullfather

Do we all need to be experts in nuclear technology in order to say we don't want Iran or North Korea to develop weapons? No. Really, it's just something that Republicans throw because they have nothing else to say. Guns kill children and should be legal because... something, but abortion kills fetuses and that's a bigger problem because... something. That level of thinking was completely acceptable a couple years ago. Maybe it still is to some of them now.

Posted May 30th by mariomguy
mariomguy

^ agree with everything in that post 100% (pacman's last reply)

Posted May 30th by Jo Nathan
Jo Nathan

I agree with that standard, null. If someone is going to have an opinion on gun policy, they need to know what the current policies actually are. This is different from being an expert on the guns themselves.

Posted May 30th by pacman
pacman
 

Can you be more specific? I think heathcare and education are things that definitely should exist but I don't think I'm understanding your question fully.

"free" (federally funded) healthcare and education for all (I will give some wiggle room here to only fund the first two years of a person's education as two years is enough to cover a cte program and leave the current system of aid up for those who want to finish a four year degree)

(Also I don't mean that these places well replace private care. Not by any means that should be an option for those who can afford it and want to go there instead)

I Also want to point out that abortion is a national security issue. And if legalizing abortion has made the number of abortions drop significantly then it is a necessary evil to maintain in order to ensure the safety of the state and our nation. (Fight me)

Edited May 30th by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Yo SOH,

Since the OP was almost certainly a troll, I feel like it’s ok to get off topic a bit...

What is your exact stance on healthcare/education? My stance is obvious to anyone who cares lol (UNIVERSAL), but I don’t think you’ve ever fully laid out yours before.

Posted May 30th by pacman
pacman
 

Ill post my thoughts after my evening jog

Posted May 30th by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

I'll be completely honest with you, I've basically just been going through the motions in my life regarding education and healthcare: I went to K-12, my parents paid for community college, I take whatever insurance my employees offer, and I have no kids to take care of. I've never HAD to do any critical thinking on these topics. With that in mind, I don't believe my opinion on these topics is worth anything, but here's what I think at a very high level: I like the idea of free healthcare and education. I don't think that's something the US could implement in its current state without serious ramifications.

If you want to discuss this seriously, I wouldn't mind doing some studying and at least putting myself in a position to make an informed opinion.

Posted May 30th by Jo Nathan
Jo Nathan

Ill post my thoughts after my evening jog

Fuck jogging right now, I did a giant lower body workout today and now I’m getting drunjk lol. (McIvor 17 yrs aged is a GREAT lower priced scotch btw. Wow)

Man I wish I had more days off...

Posted May 30th by pacman
pacman
 

I like the idea of free healthcare and education. I don't think that's something the US could implement in its current state without serious ramifications.

Would you be willing to pay a slightly higher tax if it gave you, your family and everyone else in the country basic healthcare amd education?

Hell, it might not even be that much higher of a tax if you're also willing to end our countless wars and stop handing out the biggest welfare checks to those who need it least - corporations and Wall Street in the form of bailouts and tax breaks. In fact, a single payer healthcare system could end up being CHEAPER than the system we have now, as our current system is incredibly expensive for statistically lackluster results, and we over-pay for medicine compared to other countries due to unchecked price gouging by pharmaceutical companies. By comparison, the best healthcare systems in the world tend to be single payer systems of some sort. There is no reason it can’t work in America.

As for education, much of it is actually already publicly funded K-12. The basic (possibly overly reductionist) question is, would you be willing to extend that funding to the college level?

Posted May 30th by pacman
pacman
 

Popping in real quick to address this (on mobile)

I like the idea of free healthcare and education. I don't think that's something the US could implement in its current state without serious ramifications

I disagree health care can happen if we expand Medicaid to the rest of the nation. And various states already offer free education/ need based and merit based grants to pay for ones education. Currently the state of california waives the tuition for those attending a community college if they qualify (I believe somewhere around 85-98% of students qualify ... Dont lnow the exact number off the top of my head sorry) and in the next school year california will allow all individuals to go to college for free for 1 year. This will allow individuals to not only return to school but gives many of them the chance to enroll in a 6-12 month CTE program. In less than a year one could walk out with a certificate and go back into the work force making double and or triple the minimum wage in the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that they return to the work force making a few dollars more than the minum wage.

and before any one gives me any lip about this we currently have a number of federally funded work force programs that pay for a persons education. The job corps and americorps come to mind. The former of which provides a stipend along with free lodging, healthcare, free food during the duration of yoir program and job placement at the completion of your training.

all of this can be done. In regards to healthcare France had the #1 healthcare system into the world. They only pay 12 percent of their GDP to fund it. The u.s. last I checked ranks 37th in the world and we spend 18% of our GDP and it is a shit show

Like I said it can be done.

Posted May 30th by S.o.h
S.o.h
 

America's healthcare system is the most expensive and least productive in the world. It's also the most privatized. 17 countries have single payer healthcare (basically Medicare for all) and they're all cheaper/more effective than our system.

Posted May 30th by mariomguy
mariomguy

Famov is going to be pissed at all the communism he has to address if he posts in this thread.

Posted May 31st by pacman
pacman
 

He would be naive to think that any of this is tied with communism. He's a large supporter of the 2nd amendment so was Karl Marx . by famous logic he himself is a dam dirty red commie.

Posted May 31st by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

Fuck jogging right now, I did a giant lower body workout today and now I’m getting drunjk lol. (McIvor 17 yrs aged is a GREAT lower priced scotch btw. Wow)

Man I wish I had more days off...


Ha! Nah I told my self that once I finished school I would get back into shape. I started running a year before transferring to University. Unfortunately, no one told me about the crippling amount of work one needed to do to complete a B.A. in History. Said work stressed me out. I over eat when stressed... Couple this with having an active social life which was composed of moderate amounts of partying, drinking, lots of eating out, (50 cent wings 2 dollar beers/ 1 dollar tacos/ pitchers of beer/ pizza/ tons of half off appetizers) and gallons upon gallons of white chocolate mochas and everything bagels from star bucks. Resulted in me gaining back almost all the weight I lost.

I went from 245-250lbs to 200lbs and now I am back to 230lbs. This time two years ago I could run 5 miles in about 48 minutes. (Not that good but decent) And now I cant even run a mile properly. I am happy to be starting over. I am hoping I get down to a decent shape by the end of September as I have a wedding to attend.

Posted May 31st by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

What is your exact stance on healthcare/education? My stance is obvious to anyone who cares lol (UNIVERSAL), but I don’t think you’ve ever fully laid out yours before.


Like many people, my position on both issues has moved back and forth through out the years. It was not until fairly recently that my stance on both issues solidified as a direct result of my college education. Now before Famov comes in and throws out my indoctrinated liberal stance let me clarify.

My stances on both issues are firmly rooted on the security of the state. For good measure I will also throw in my beliefs on abortion and conscription.

When it comes to healthcare I see it as a national security issue. The articulate minds over at the Heritage Foundation sum up my views perfectly.

1. 71 percent of young Americans between 17 and 24 are ineligible to serve in the military—that is 24 million of the 34 million people of that age group.

The military depends on a constant flow of volunteers each year; as the number of eligible Americans declines, it is increasingly difficult to meet military needs.

A manpower shortage in the United States Armed Forces directly compromises national security.
https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/the-looming-national-security-crisis-young-americans-unable-serve-the-military
Of those 71-75% (later in the article it states about 75%) 32% are not fit to serve due to Health Problems, 27% are not fit to serve as they fail to meet physical fitness standards, 25% are not fit to serve do to their lack of education, and 10% are not fit to serve due to their criminal background.

Now before I address the 59% of individuals who are not fit to serve due to health and physical fitness reasons, I would like to point out that if the government provided adequate education to its citizens that 25% of individuals who are unfit to serve because they fail to meet the education requirements would drop significantly. Additionally there are a number of studies indicating that those who are properly educated commit less crimes than their uneducated counterparts. So in theory if we properly fund education the number of individuals committing crimes would drop. Therefore alleviating the concerns of the United States Military.

Any who. The article points out that obesity is the leading culprit behind both health issues and a persons inability to meet physical standards. (Other issues include Asthma ((I believe obesity makes you susceptible to asthma correct me if I am wrong)) mental health issues, hearing and eye sight problems) The best way to combat obesity begins on a greater emphasis for not only healthy living but an emphasizes on preventative health care. The best way to promote both is by giving people access to "free" health care.

If you give people access to single payer health care they would be able to see their doctor more often. Additionally You can address potential issues sooner rather than later.

This article only stresses that a man power shortage directly comprises the security of the state. I would like to take it a step further however. If we are ever attacked and need to draft citizens to fight in a war it will be impossible for us to do so. Sure we can tweak physical fitness standards at boot camp but all that does is compromise not only our ability to successfully fight back but puts a large number of service men and women at risk. Am I really gonna trust the guy next to me who can barely pull his own weight with all the ammunition? Or how about the blind asthmatic? I dont think so.

I am not sure when or where I read it. But back in the 1940s when the U.S. had a peace time draft the army found that a large number of men were not physically fit to serve due to nutritional deficiency among other things. The Army was a strong advocate for the creation of the National School program. A program created for the safety of the nation. The only thing I could find was this. I am sure there is a better source out there.

Programs to feed students — especially poor and hungry students — date back to before the 20th century. But the federal government got involved in the 1940s, in part out of concern that kids were underfed and not fit for military service. During World War II, more than one-third of Army recruits who were turned away were rejected for poor nutrition. After the war, Gen. Lewis B. Hershey, the head of the Draft Board in World War II, delivered passionate testimony to Congress framing malnutrition as a threat to the US. That argument caught on. Democracy, warned Rep. John Flannagan, a Democrat from Virginia, "sprang from the loins of men of strong minds and bodies. And if it is to be preserved it will be preserved by the same kinds of men." The National School Lunch Program was created in 1946.
https://www.vox.com/2014/11/28/7300789/school-lunch-new-regulations


Ultimately single payer health care takes the above act further. Also there is the whole notion that I believe the fetus not only has the right to life but the right to its mothers body to ensure its survival. Therefore we as citizens no only have a right to life but to government funded single payer healthcare to ensure our survival. (Mic drop)


On Education:

I work under many hats . My experience falls under work force development, Increasing college access, affordability and completion, to name a few. I have always been a promoter of higher education. Especially when said education is paid for by the State. I am not sure who said it or where I read it. I am not sure if its the right quote but here goes.

When you invest in your people, you invest in society


Or something like that. I am reminded of both Agustus and Agrippa who if I remember correctly invested a large portion of their own personal wealth into Roman society to better their lives of their fellow Romans.

It was not until yesterday, that I found an actual reason as to why we should be funding education. (Gonna quickly point out that earlier in the thread I mentioned that we do this already through both the job and americorps, and state and federal grants) ((gonna quickly point out to any one who is reading back to heritage foundations article and how education and to lesser extents criminal history makes 35% of individuals unfit to serve to defend our Nation and our values. properly funding education would significantly drop that percentage ))

I recently graduated college and have decided to read a number of books before returning to graduate school. One of the books I am currently reading is: Philippines in Crisis: U.S. Power Versus Local Revolt. Written by Donald Kirk. Somewhere in the opening pages of the book Kirk stresses that poverty, lack of education, and the lack of employment led to both the rise of radical Islamic and Communist groups on the Southern islands of the Philippines and a means for radical Islamic and communist leaders to recruit any struggling, uneducated, poverty stricken Filipino to join their cause. After reading that I realized that if we want to combat both radical Islam and any potential communist threat, we must provide proper funding for education. Therefore education is a national security issue. Failing to address it puts not only the security of our nation, but the security of the West and the values we hold dear at risk.


Side Bar: After coming to said conclusion I had flashbacks to one of the random history books I read that covered the reconstruction of Japan after World War 2. In order to ensure that communism did not take a foothold in Japan, MacArthur over saw both the land/ Agrarian reform of the nation to keep the Japanese masses happy and keep them from rallying behind communist ideology. We consider land and Agrarian reform a staple of communism.

Back on Education: As to what extent we should fund it I am not sure. I am all for funding the first 2 years of undergraduate studies. We can leave the funding for the last 2 years of undergraduate studies the way it currently is. Funding by the government coming in the form of merit based/ income based grants.



Abortion: I outlined my beliefs before through out the thread. Personally I believe that the fetus is both alive and has every right to live. (Ergo it has every right to use the mothers body for its own survival) In a nutshell if I can quote my boy Flipsyde

I will never tell a woman what to do with her body, but if she dont like children then we cant party



Cringing aside I also see it as a national security issue. And I am not the only one. Abortions add to declining birth rates. (this is why paying individuals a living wage is also a national security issue. but if you want to hear more about this remind me at a later time) In a nutshell the less babies that are being pumped out the smaller your population becomes. You not only put the nation at risk as you no longer have a pool of individuals to defend the nation but a nations economy can no longer be sustained. (Bye Bye taxes, Bye Bye Safety Nets) and unfortunately for me there are people on my side of the spectrum who are staunchly against immigration these idiots fine people dont understand that being American is more of a mindset than something rooted in blood and soil. Any who less babies= less soldiers to defend the state.

Unfortunately for me. The evidence points out that the number of abortions has dropped drastically since the legalization of Roe v. Wade. Ultimately it is a necessary evil in order to ensure the survival of both the state and our values. (As much as I hate to admit it)

Conscription: I have nothing to say here. I was staunchly against it. Until my most liberal professor. (A woman who would have done anything to ensure the survival of "socialist" revolution" in Cuba.) Said she was 100% for conscription. Her words bothered me greatly as less than a year ago I told her that I was thinking of military duty after college. In response she went on a wild tangent reminding me of all the horrific things the U.S. Military had done in Latin America, and how she would find what ever base I was stationed at and protest against me and my service.

I inquired further as to what she meant and she went on a wild tangent stressing that "Military service, led to the vast amounts of social progress we saw in the decades following World War II." And that the United States Military "was indirectly responsible for the various Civil Rights movements due to the desegregation of the armed forces" Her logic followed that military service in World War II saw Americans from all walks of life interact with one in other. This interaction was furthered when the Armed Branches desegregated. Individuals were now exposed to a variety of cultures within the United States. Additionally the United States military not only provided training for technical skills, but served as a source of both income, healthcare and a means to further ones education.

Ultimately she believed that conscription is what this nation needed. As it will allow individuals from all walks of American life to interact with one another and become tolerant of each others culture and views, ( In her words: "6'2, built like a shed, Alabama southern boys will be meeting, interacting, and training with 1st generation American Indian Sikhs from California's Central Valley for the first time in their life") provide much needed job training for Americans, provide much needed health care for Americans, and provide Americans with a means to pay for school. (G.I. Bill) After she explained her self it all made sense to me. And I reluctantly found my self agreeing with her assessment. However I am not fully on board as conscription serves as a double edge sword. We could either end up Like Israel whose service men and women are professionally trained and understand what is at stake. Or we could end up like South Korea whose servicemen see conscription as a joke. (Ive had several of my friends in the Service tell me how much they hate working with the S.K. service men as they do not take it seriously and are far more likely to take a smoke break or a siesta than report to mandatory drills)


well that was a lot. I apologize for my errors. I jumped on this as soon as I came back from jogging and Im dead tired D;

Edited May 31st by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

Unfortunately for me. The evidence points out that the number of abortions has dropped drastically since the legalization of Roe v. Wade. Ultimately it is a necessary evil in order to ensure the survival of both the state and our values. (As much as I hate to admit it)

Uh.. aren't less abortions (in a free society) a good thing?

Edited June 2nd by Coo Coo
Coo Coo
 

Yes. That id why I said it is a necessary evil.

Posted June 2nd by S.o.h.
S.o.h.
 

meanwhile, david hogg was swatted this morning because the right wing is made up of irredeemable psychopaths

Posted June 6th by poptart!
poptart!
 

I believe that gun control also means holding our law enforcement agencies accountable.

The problem with that statement is that you're treating school shootings as a black-and-white issue. Don't start thinking that every single case is clear-cut and perfectly discernible from teenagers having their own kind of fun making videos with guns, or that diagnosing teenagers with mental illnesses is clearly different than seeing simple puberty angst. Parents don't have that kind of training, and it's hard to sift through all that for school resource officers. And on top of that, law enforcement officers have even more to deal with. It's not their fault at all. Don't put the blame squarely on them. It's time to protect kids, NOT GUNS.

Posted Tuesday by GC/MS
GC/MS
 

I am not protecting guns. Various law enforcement agencies have failed to enforce gun laws or to investigate a potential suspect that they had been repeatedly warned about.

They have more important stuff to deal with

really? something more important than to investigate an individual who they have been repeatedly warned about and who has the potential to harm himself and others? Well Shit why even bother calling them when that person snaps. Let god handle it and go about our day.

*snickers*

Posted Tuesday by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 
Reply to: David Hogg is right! We need gun control to protect our sweet innocent children.

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