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Ataivsh. (MSFUNMRFCW thread #2)
Posted: Posted June 16th
Edited June 24th by chiarizio
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Now that I’ve decided on ”Ataivsh” as the name for “my so-far-unnamed multi-racial conworld”, I think I should take Xhin’s and linguistcat’s recommendation, and start a brand-new thread about it; since my first GTX0 thread on it is too long and contains too much tangent material.

The first thread for this builtworld on GTX0 is http://gtx0.com/view.php?post=113141. If any references confuse you, please go to that thread and scroll down to the last several posts; the explanation you’re looking for is probably there. If it’s not near the bottom it’s probably still in that thread; if you don’t feel like looking for it, post a question here, and I or some other reader/responder will explain it to you, or help you find the explanation.

To recapitulate the introduction:
There are four sapient conspecies in/on Ataivsh.
Three are humanoid, namely:
  • Men (Humans) of the Plains and Grasslands;
  • Dwarves of the Mines and Caves and Mountains and intramontane Valleys;
  • Elves of the Woods and Forests.
    The fourth conspecies is MerCentaurs; they resemble the mythical Ichthyocentaurs. They are a three-way chimera between hippocampus, Merfolk, and centaurs. They mostly live in freshwater bodies and streams such as lakes and rivers.
    The Plains Men (aka Humans) all speak Arpien.
    The world is both magical and scientific.
    The four races differ in how their bodies eliminate nitrogenous wastes.


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    Looks like a good start/summation so far. I should probably do a similar thread for the space fantasy verse tbh since previous ones are either scattered or specific to danpyr.

    Posted June 16th by linguistcat
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    Good to see these ideas crystalising into a world!

    Posted June 17th by elemtilas
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    Looks interesting!

    The world is both magical and scientific.


    Particularly interested in how you're handling that.

    Also, what does Ataivsh translate into? Why that word specifically for the world?

    Edited June 17th by Xhin
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    Xhin
    Ground's what's around

    Looks interesting! Particularly interested in how you're handling [the world being both magical and scientific]

    Thanks!

    Also, what does Ataivsh translate into? Why that word specifically for the world?

    “Ataivsh” is the Arpien word for “world”.
    The Polish word for world is S’wiata, pronounced Shviata.
    The language Arpien’s syntax resembles reverse Polish notation (RPN). That’s why it’s named Arpien.
    As many of its roots as possible, without screwing up the grammar, are formed by reversing the order of the phonemes in some Polish word.
    Thus Ataivsh for “world”.




    Posted June 18th by chiarizio
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    The only thing I got for Neipra was the polish word Niepra, which means "misstatement".

    Posted June 18th by Xhin
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    Xhin
    Ground's what's around

    Oh I see, it's Arpien. Neat.

    Posted June 18th by Xhin
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    Xhin
    Ground's what's around

    Oh I see, it's Arpien. Neat.


    Read the letter-names “R P N” out loud then try to spell what you just said.

    Posted June 18th by chiarizio
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    I’m going to expand my set of new pronouns to write about the MerCentaurs.
  • she/-/- refers to any MerCentaur with a female human part
  • he/-/- refers to any MerCentaur with a male human part
  • -/she/- refers to any MerCentaur with a female equine part
  • -/he/- refers to any MerCentaur with a male equine part
  • -/-/she refers to any MerCentaur with a female piscine part
  • -/-/he refers to any MerCentaur with a male piscine part

    ——————————

    On the old thread elemtilas asked me what might happen to a merrow fingerling if it were rejected by a -/F/- mare, who wouldn’t or couldn’t become its dam.
    We were discussing his suggestion, which I accepted, that if -/she/- were under stress, -/she/- would refuse, or her body would not be capable, of accepting the merrow-fingerling.
    At the time we were considering stress due to war or famine or pestilence etc., which would probably apply equally to any other -/F/- mare.

    But what if it were only that particular -/female/- who were under such stress?

    My thought recently has occurred to me, that her body in that case would not emit any, or at least not much, of whatever pheromone might attract a merrow-fingerling to -/her/- in the first place. So, if there were other nearish-by or nearby-ish mares who were not so stressed, the merrow-fingerling might be attracted to one of them.

    —————

    I’ve started thinking about the reproductive habits of MerCentaurs.

    One thing; since they are intelligent, they may, like us, be able to delay or accelerate certain biological events or processes, based on knowledge.
    Nobody knows how people do this, as far as I know. Polynesians about to take a long journey where food will be scarce are able to eat more food and store nutrition before the voyage.
    It is something done by subconscious means, in response to conscious knowledge.

    I think that a F/-/- “woman”’s emotional state may make her/-/- body likelier or less likely to accept a fish-larva and implant it in her human womb, and hook up with a M/-/- “man” to fertilize it, so it can grow to be a merrow-fingerling.
    I think the timing of these events, and of her/-/- delivery of the merrow-fingerling, can be swayed somewhat by her intellectual knowledge of, and emotional reaction to, such things as current events.

    The same thing applies to a -/F/- “mare”’s acceptance of a merrow-fingerling into her marsupium/vagina/womb or whatever it is, its attachment and/or implantation, and her hooking up with a -/M/- “stallion” to have it fertilized, and gestate it to foalhood, and deliver it.

    . . . . .

    The places in which -/-/Females release roe and -/-/Males release milt, I will call “leks”.
    These are probably also the places in which the fish-larva stage of MerCentaurs enter the human reproductive tracts of their Female/-/- “mothers”.
    I’m going to guess that whenever a Female/-/- has just released -/-/her roe or -/-/his milt at the lek, her/-/- body will flood with the hormone that makes her/-/- feel the emotional desire to conceive a larva, and also will emit the pheromone that will make any larva that have matured in the lek since the previous season, want to swim to her to try to enter her/-/- human-female reproductive tract. If she has enough will-power to overcome such natural urges, she might resist them. OTOH perhaps her intellectual objection to conception will be overpowered by her emotions.

    If she/-/- knows that the coming year will be a bad one, but doesn’t know the year after that will be bad, she may produce plenty of roe or milt but not accept a larva to gestate.

    Or something.

    —————

    The places the F/-/- “women” meet up with the M/-/- “men”, to have the larva they’ve just started gestating be fertilized by the male-human parts so they can develop into merrow-fingerlings, should in my opinion not be right next to the leks. They should take a shortish-but-not-too-short amount of time to swim to from the leks. For lack of a better term I’m going to call these places “singles bars”. MerCentaurs should have several (3 to 7?) “singles bars” convenient-ish to swim to from each lek; and each “singles bar” should be convenientishly located from several (3 to 7?) different leks.

    .....

    But one of the “intellectual overrides” available to pretty much any MerCentaur, might be to not go to any of the closest singles-bars, but instead go to one in the next neighborhood.

    (Or, go home, and not get knocked up, nor knock anyone up. Kinda boring, I know, but maybe you’re focused on your career or something?)

    —————

    So piscine ovulation and human ovulation should be hormonally co-ordinated in any F/-/F MerCentaur. And the reproductive acts of the M/-/- and -/-/M male human and male piscine parts of MerCentaurs that have them, should probably also be co-ordinated with each other. And a similar concept, difficult for me to find the right words for at the moment, for co-ordinating the human and piscine reproductive acts or events or states, of M/-/F and F/-/M MerCentaurs.

    —————

    I haven’t figured it out yet, but probably the human and equine reproductive processes of F/F/-, M/F/-, F/M/-, and M/M/- MerCentaurs, should also be coordinated, hormonally, and/or pheromonally, and/or emotionally, and/or intellectually.
    Some of them should sometimes be able to resist the call of nature by willpower.
    Some of them should sometimes not be able to resist.



  • Edited June 21st by chiarizio
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    @elemtilas:

    Thanks for the explanation. I figured the entire chimera would constitute a single sophont being.

    That’s all cool, then!

    Can you remind me what all the possible combinations are?

    For adult MerCentaurs there are eight:
    (Top/middle/back)
    Woman/mare/femalefish
    Woman/stallion/femalefish
    Man/mare/femalefish
    Man/stallion/femalefish
    Woman/mare/malefish
    Woman/stallion/malefish
    Man/mare/malefish
    Man/stallion/malefish

    For merrow-fingerlings, there are four:
    (Top/back)
    Babygirl/femalefry
    Babyboy/femalefry
    Babygirl/malefry
    Babyboy/malefry

    For larvae there are two;
    Female larval fish
    Male larval fish


    I figure anything with a human / Merfolk / Centaur head end would obviously be a sophont because of the brain. But what about fish head ~ centaur rear? Or horse head ~ fish tail? Or fish head ~ human legs?

    That doesn’t happen.
    For adult MerCentaurs:
    The head and arms and chest all the way down to the human genital region are always human. (I think.)
    Then comes part that’s all of a horse from its forelegs and the base of its neck all the way back to its equine genitalia, but not including its head or neck or tail nor its rear legs (I think). I think it’s resized to match a human’s size.
    Then there’s the rear two-thirds or three-quarters of a human-sized (or horse-sized?) fish, from, I guess, just behind its pectoral fins (but not including those fins!), all the way back to its tail.

    I suppose a merrow-fingerling would just have the top three-fifths-or-three-fourths-or-whatever of a baby human and the back two-thirds-or-whatever of a just-grown fish. Or something.
    But it wouldn’t be baby-sized; it would be fist-sized or frog-sized or hens-egg-sized or duck-egg-sized or something like that.

    Are those kinds of -- creatures? -- possible permutations? I can't imagine a fish or horse headed offspring would be a sophont, because fish brain / horse brain.

    Most of them aren’t possible in Ataivsh. They may very well be possible in mythology or someone else’s fiction. I’m not sure.

    Or, if those are possible, am I just all wet?

    Hah!


    Edited June 21st by chiarizio
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    The MerCentaurs are three-way chimeras of Centaurs, Merfolk, and Hippocampuses.
    Each of those is already a two-way chimera.
    Centaurs are a chimera of humans over horses;
    Merfolk are a chimera of humans over fish;
    And Hippocampuses are a chimera of horses over fish.

    I think we can assume that sometime in the evolutionary origin of the MerCentaurs, all three of those two-way chimeras actually existed.

    But I don’t think Centaurs or Merfolk exist anymore.
    I don’t have any in-story explanation why not.
    The real reason is I just don’t want them.

    It would have taken less magic to create any one of the two-way chimeras than to create the three-way chimera.
    The Centaurs could have been created with less magic than the Merfolk or the Hippocampuses.

    But, however it was done, the magic required to merge (? right word?) the three two-way chimera into a three-way chimera, should have been less than would have been needed to create that three-way chimera starting from the three natural species of people, horses, and fish.


    Edited June 21st by chiarizio
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