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Anthem is getting Shit Reviews and Bioware might go under
Posted: Posted February 27th
Edited February 27th by I killed Mufasa

Honestly at this point I wouldn't be that sad if they did. It's a shame that Apex Legends is doing so well because this could have been the wake up call EA needed or even the nail in the coffin for them. Anthem has sold half the amount of physical copies that Mass Effect Andromeda did in as many days, and it's averaging a 60/100 and a disgusting 4.5 on user reviews. I won't post any actual links but youtube is full of angry reviews and sad reviews alike. They're talking about how Bioware made the wrong kind of game and they made it badly. It's devoid of content, it's repetitive, and it's in an oversaturated genre of games.

This is the A team side of Bioware, right? Casey Hudson and all the people who worked on ME2-3. So if this is the best that they've got, then I guess their run is over. Nothing can save their once stainless name.

Edit, I changed my mind here's one review I liked:



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Posted February 27th by Pirate_Ninja

Lol what?

Posted February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

I haven't followed anthem and have no personal investment in it or bioware, but the Sonic RPG on DS was developed by bioware

it wasn't good and is kinda infamous for its soundtrack of shitty midi-ass Sonic covers


...the central city theme gets me every time lol

Posted February 27th by Pirate_Ninja

Ever since Dragon Age inquisition I have felt that Bioware was starting to lost it's edge. DA:I was still pretty good and I liked the twist ending that I didn't see coming. I also thought that Mass Effect 3 was very good up until the sloppy ending and the multiplayer was pretty good and was fun to play with friends.

Bioware, and some other big studios are starting to lose focus on how to make a good game. Maybe it's that they are trying to do too much in too short of a time span or if it's publishers like EA getting in the way of the developers.

Like PN, I too wasn't that invested in Anthem. it still kind of surprises me that video games have been around for 40+ years yet developers still cant figure out how to make good games consistently despite years full of people literally saying what they like and dislike about any video game.

Posted February 27th by Q
Q
 

Good. Fuck them.

Posted February 27th by The Bandit

Dragon Age Inquisition was definitely the last game where you could see that Bioware has a soul. I mean the A team didn't even work on Mass Effect Andromeda. Honestly if they had supported it and added some great content they could have fixed that game. Instead Bioware, known for great storytelling and single-player roleplaying experiences decides to make a Destiny Clone with Mass Effect Armour and sell in game currency because apparently it's too much work to release post game DLC like they did for ME2 and 3.

Even if the base game of Mass Effect Andromeda NEVER got better, they could have released some quality DLC for it. Instead they just abandoned it.

Posted February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

It's a shame that Apex Legends is doing so well because this could have been the wake up call EA needed or even the nail in the coffin for them.

According to Respawn, EA had "no hand in development" of Apex Legends. Which goes a long way toward explaining why it turned out so well. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of it.

Posted February 27th by Count Dooku

I'm just waiting to see what EA does to fuck it up. XD

Posted February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

I still dont know what Apex Legends is.

I am holding out for a mass effect 1-3 remake/ remaster though.

Posted February 27th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

Anthem has sold half the amount Mass Effect Andromeda did in as many days


This is a very misleading sale. It had half the physical sales of Andromeda.

Every year physical sales dwindle and digital increases but also EA really pushed their EA Access subscription model for this game by giving early access and special demos so even then digital sales figures don't really paint an accurate picture of how well the game "sold".

That said the criticisms you've quotes from reviews are accurate. The hardcore fans of the game are mostly just defending the game based on its potential because even they know there's not much here.

Also this won't surprise anyone who has followed modern Bioware but the story is weak. It's not bad, it's just weak. A good example is the boss of your initial team. He gets pissed at you at the end of the tutorial mission then a few missions later you team up with him again, he's initially still pissed at you in cutscenes but as soon as he gets his stationary position in the hub area his conversations are all over the place. Sometimes he hates you, sometimes he likes you, and there's never any reason for the alternating...

Oh and the main villain ain't no Saren or Kreia that's for sure.

Edited February 27th by Moonray
Moonray
 

Games like Kingdom Hearts 3 and Resident Evil 2 haven't seen the kind of physical sales drops that Anthem did though. A lot of people bought Mass Effect Andromeda as a digital purchase too because of EA access remember. PS4 doesn't even have EA access and it should have the bulk of Anthem's sales since it has a much larger install base.

Edited February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

A lot of people bought Mass Effect Andromeda as a digital purchase too because of EA access remember.


Yea but my point is there wasn't a bonus to doing so. With Anthem they gave you multiple demos, several days head start, bonus items, etc. I've seen many comments about people getting its through EA Access which I never saw for Andromeda.

I'm not trying to defend it or anything, it's a very unfinished game from what I've played of it so far, and very scaled back from the original E3 teaser (no surprises there). I'm just pointing out that physical sales are on the decline, we're two years down the road so it's only declined further, and there was a heavy push for the subscription service with this game which won't translate to actual sales figures.

Posted February 27th by Moonray
Moonray
 

I'm just saying, EA access didn't affect sales THAT much compared to Mass Effect Andromeda because Xbox isn't even the market leader and there was still some incentive to buy ME:A digitally if you had EA access. What you're saying is a fair point for a small chunk of the numbers probably but not really an explanation for why it's half.

How far have you played into Anthem, Moonray?

Edited February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king



Posted February 27th by Moonray
Moonray
 

Stupid blank post (that wasn't a bug that was me being stupid).

EA Access is a subscription service, you don't have to buy many games you just subscribe and they let you play them for free. It's also available on PC. Between PC and Xbox I would argue that is a large chunk of the market.

I also don't recall there being any incentive to get ME:A that way as the service was much newer back then and EA hadn't settled into it yet.

I can definitely see it explaining a chunk of the drop. The rest of it is no doubt because people realised it wasn't going to be all that good.
________________________________________

I'm enjoying it enough to keep playing it for now and their content "roadmap" (I guess this is just a thing in gaming now) doesn't look promising right now so I will probably drop it and maybe just come back to it in a couple of years to see what they did with it.

The main problem I have with games like this is publishers call them "live services", which they initially likened to an MMO where development continues for a long time, but the reality is they're just regular games that will get replaced within the usual development timeframe (2 years). It's hard to really get that invested in "my character" (in a sub-par story) when I know the next game is just going to reset me.

Like I hop on and off of both Star Trek Online and Guild Wars 2. They've both been going for several years now and I am happy to throw the occasional bit of money for a cosmetic or invest some time into getting a particular item because I know that, unless these games shut down, my investment isn't going to be invalidated anytime soon.

So I'm playing Anthem like I play any other game. Play it for a while, get my money's worth in terms of hours of entertainment, then drop it for something else.

How far have you played into Anthem, Moonray?


Hmm. I've reached the "grindy" mission that all the reviewers complained about, though it is less grindy for me because I got it on the 2nd release date as opposed to the "early" release date and so a patch made it less grindy. I've played the first Stronghold a few times over. Done multiple side missions. I don't know how far I am in terms of the story, though it does sort of feel like it's building toward the end already which would be a disappointment if so because that would make it really short.

I'm playing the Storm class because the rest are just boring as heck. I am sure there are people that enjoy them but seriously who could enjoy them over being able to hover above the battleground raining fireballs and lightning down on your enemies.

I'm certainly not at the "endgame" and the comments I've read about it make me kinda glad because it sounds like there is little point wasting your time trying to get the super rare gear because even if you do get so lucky as to have it drop (drop rates are supposedly very low) it could end up being an item with dumb modifiers that don't even benefit the item in any way making it worthless.

Posted February 27th by Moonray
Moonray
 

I did decide to post one video in my OP.

incentive to get ME:A

All new EA games are a little bit cheaper if you have EA access. That's all I mean. I'd be interested to see how many people are playing Anthem on PC.

I can definitely see it explaining a chunk of the drop. The rest of it is no doubt because people realised it wasn't going to be all that good.

The truth of the matter is, They Fallout 76ed it. It's in incomplete mess devoid of a soul. And yeah the mechanics are there and the concept is there, and maybe they can turn it around with post-release content if it's done correctly. Any project can be saved with love and effort. The same way they could have made ME:A better and didn't.

So yeah, EA Access may have caused some of those numbers for physical sales, but they obviously didn't affect the market leader PS4 sales even a little bit. I'm not convinced that very many people play it on PC. Maybe 5 percent of the market is my guesstimate.

Edited February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

I'm not convinced that very many people play it on PC. Maybe 5 percent of the market is my guesstimate.


I would guesstimate that you are way off but we'll probably never be able to prove which of us is right.

The truth of the matter is, They Fallout 76ed it. It's in incomplete mess devoid of a soul. And yeah the mechanics are there and the concept is there, and maybe they can turn it around with post-release content if it's done correctly. Anything can be saved with love and effort. The same way they could have made ME:A better and didn't.


Yea, although I do disagree with those reviewers who have said it is worse than Fallout 76. I never played that one but from what I have seen the game didn't even function properly, much less anything else. At least Bioware managed to get a working game out, just one that's devoid of any meaty content.

And yea I'm really disappointed that they abandoned ME:A. The main story wasn't great on many levels, but it as hardly worth just dropping. Guess they just thought no one would bother buying DLCs so EA decided it wasn't worth their time to continue.

Posted February 27th by Moonray
Moonray
 

It wasn't worse than 76 but it isn't much better either.

If they would have brought in the Quarian DLC I would have bought it full price on day one. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I could forgive the main game being not that great. What I can't forgive is the abandonment. EA hates single player games though, some of their people have said as much. They blame "single player games" for Battlefield 5's flop instead of taking responsibility. EA probably sunk their own battleship when it comes to Bioware. Why can't they just let each of their teams do what they're good at and give them the time and resources to do it?

The difference between Anthem and Fallout 76 is that Anthem could be salvaged probably. Square salvaged FF14 so it's possible.

Edited February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

EA hates single player games though, some of their people have said as much.


Yup, I am pretty sure it was one of their executives that had the audacity to claim singleplayer games were dead and nobody wanted them. Which then prompted a bunch of other developers and publishers to point out how well their singleplayer games were doing.

As I've noted in your thread about old consoles, they are just trying to get more and more money and the reality is singleplayer games don't generate as much as a multiplayer game. Not because of initial sales but because of all the extra monetisation they can do on multiplayer games that simply wouldn't sell at all for singleplayer.

If they would have brought in the Quarian DLC I would have bought it full price on day one.


Probably the biggest disappointment is we never got that. Not only did that Ark have a bunch of the "minor" alien races from the trilogy but the added mystery of its fate at the end was something I was actually interested in.

Posted February 27th by Moonray
Moonray
 

The difference between Anthem and Fallout 76 is that Anthem could be salvaged probably.


Nah. The difference is Anthem is actually "ok" whereas Fallout 76 had numerous game break bugs and continues to do so. Anthem lacks content, Fallout 76 lacks everything at every level. They are very different levels of quality in my opinion.

Posted February 27th by Moonray
Moonray
 

I think it'll still be sad if BioWare goes under, even if they haven't made a game I've liked in a while. Mostly because I don't think it is most of the people who work there's fault and it stinks to see people lose their jobs. I also admittedly can't tell how much of BioWare's general fall from grace can be attributed to EA, and what is due to just poor creative and marketing decisions.

Like, was Anthem ever really going to do well? Even if it were great, isn't it sort of entering an over-saturated market? If you want the type of experience Anthem is offering, you've got plenty of choices. And BioWare - even during its heyday - wasn't exactly known for the *gameplay* side of things. So I'm not sure what prompted them to decide the next big core game for the company would be a game like that.


it still kind of surprises me that video games have been around for 40+ years yet developers still cant figure out how to make good games consistently


I mean, cinema has been a thing for over 100 years, and they still have no problem pumping out tons of shit films every year. There are still plenty of shitty television shows. And there is no shortage of shitty books. If it were that easy or simple to make something good consistently, everyone would do it and there probably wouldn't be that much growth.


Posted February 27th by Jet Presto

So I'm not sure what prompted them to decide the next big core game for the company would be a game like that.


Direction from the publisher would be my guess.

Posted February 27th by Moonray
Moonray
 

Which then prompted a bunch of other developers and publishers to point out how well their singleplayer games were doing.

Exactly. Even if their next game was just a 1080p/4k remaster of Mass Effect Trilogy with all the DLC seamlessly integrated and load times chopped down, it would sell millions. Then, they could sell more DLC missions like they used to. But that's just toooooo much work. They'd rather sell stupid in-game currency and loot boxes that nobody wants. Creating post-game content that people actually like is too much of a chore for EA/Bioware.

Edited February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

One of these days I'm going to try Andromeda again. And maybe this time I will at least not get the game-breaking bugs I got that drove me insane and forced me to stop playing. It's never going to be an ok game, but I suppose I should try it again since I imagine there have been patches and updates.

Posted February 27th by Jet Presto

Are you suggesting that they should release an HD remaster and then work on more DLC for the original Mass Effect?

Posted February 27th by Jet Presto

The original 3 games, and yes.

Posted February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

I also admittedly can't tell how much of BioWare's general fall from grace can be attributed to EA, and what is due to just poor creative and marketing decisions.

Raycevick has a series of review videos on youtube about the ME series that goes into some detail about the development of each game. Since EA took over right after ME1, he talks a bit about this topic. Really recommend it. He does a ton of other games as well, like the Halo series and The Orange Box. Good channel imo.

But, I think the answer is just EA sucks. In my opinion, ME2 is such a massive downgrade from ME1 in so many different ways, and I just don't see how EA coming on board right at that time could just be a coincidence.

Posted February 27th by The Bandit

Oh yeah, I've seen parts of those. Keep meaning to sit down one night and watch them in their entirety.

It's funny: I prefer ME2, so my gut reaction is to be like, "WHAT? ME2 IS A DOWNGRADE???" But, while the gameplay is a little tighter than ME1, the systems are a lot simpler. Customization was definitely a downgrade. They dropped what made the weapons and armor system interesting. They shrank the exploration element pretty dramatically. (Although I dunno that exploration in ME1 was all that well done, per se; it was bigger and had potential that they didn't build upon). And the more I think about it, the primary reason I *like* ME2 better is that I think the cast and writing is stronger - which is not really related to the "game" part. Obviously, that is a pretty big part of a video game. I think the shooting mechanics are smoother, and ally commanding actually sort of works, but otherwise yeah, I can totally see that argument.

Posted February 27th by Jet Presto

ME:2 had serious polish and I think it made it out of Bioware's pipeline well before EA could really corrupt it. EA just helped fund it and left them alone. The reason I say this is because even 90 percent of Mass Effect 3 seems brilliant and not rushed.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2019/02/25/is-ea-going-to-stick-with-anthem-long-term-or-ditch-it-like-andromeda/#69fec6aa1ac1

Edited February 27th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

I still dont know what Apex Legends is.

The latest (and greatest) battle royale game. 20 squads of 3 fighting it out until only one squad remains. Free to play, from the titanfall devs. It's got pretty good gunplay/movement mechanics and some interesting classes.

I've never really been a fan of the BR genre, but I've been pretty hooked on Apex so far.

writing is stronger - which is not really related to the "game" part.

I'd say the character writing is probably better compared to ME1, with it's grand total of 6 squadmates. But that might simply be a factor of quantity over quality. ME2 has the odd factor of a lot of the loyalty missions boiling down to "daddy/mommy issues".

The story is where things really fall apart though. The central idea - that you have to work with because the Council/Alliance isn't doing anything about the Reapers - basically requires them to ignore a mountain of evidence from ME1. The most compelling of which (Vigil/Sovereign) is essentially hand-waived away by convenient dead batteries and the fact that somehow they can't tell the technological difference between the geth and the reaper ship that practically solo'd the citadel.

And ultimately, as much as I love the suicide mission (it's probably the highlight of the entire trilogy), the game basically ends exactly where the last one did: The reapers are coming! The only actual bit of plot-advancement we get on that front comes in the form of the Arrival DLC, where you actually manage to stall the Reapers for a little bit.

Personally the series will always be 1>2>3 for me. From both an overall story perspective and a gameplay perspective. The gunplay is undoubtedly better in the sequels, but there are a ton of tradeoffs and cuts made along the way that are a net loss in my view.

Posted February 28th by Count Dooku

Saren is the best villain in the series. Mass Effect 1 was a game that could have ended where it did and been fantastic.

Posted February 28th by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

I've never really been a fan of the BR genre, but I've been pretty hooked on Apex so far.


I will probrably check it out.

Personally the mechanics of the first game are way too outdated and clunky. It gave me issues the first time I played it in 2012-2013 (??????) Mass effect 2 though. That game is the bees knees.

Posted February 28th by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

There isn't a single Bioware game that I didn't play ten years after it was made. As such, my fondness for a lot of their best work is still fresh, and it is frustrating to see what their priorities have now become. Anthem not being good is a shame, but ultimately it never looked like something I'd conceivably be interested in.

To be fair I thought the same thing about Mass Effect back in 2008, and it was only last year that I played it and realized what I'd been missing. ME2 had less of what I was looking for, and as such I haven't felt compelled to move on to the third game. I remember the Giant Bomb guys heaping praise on the sequels for offering more compelling gunplay, and at one time I might have agreed with them. But in my ever advancing age it has become clear that my tastes has changed significantly. The vestigial RPG systems in ME2 were a real letdown for me, as was the streamlined exploration. Nowhere is this more apparent than when comparing the two versions of the Citadel. So while I still like the second game it was definitely headed in a direction that I wasn't enthusiastic about.



My favorite Bioware game is and remains Baldur's Gate. Interestingly, Bioware projected that Baldur's Gate would sell 200,000 copies worldwide. It would go on to break two million, back when that was considered a huge commercial success. Anthem will probably sell more than that and be regarded as a failure. Such is this industry two decades later.

Edited March 1st by Famov

My favorite BioWare game is “Star Wars knights of the old republic ii: the Sith Lords”

Posted March 1st by Brandy

ME2 has the odd factor of a lot of the loyalty missions boiling down to "daddy/mommy issues".


But see, I don't think that was odd. I really loved that because those "mommy/daddy issues" were thematically similar to the central plot. I really loved one of the scenes in ME3 when Tali is sort of drunk in the bar and says, "When do we stop reacting to our parents and start living for ourselves?"

With almost every character in the franchise (because it starts before ME2 - Garrus, Wrex, Liara, and Ashley all have stories in which issues with their parents play a key factor in their development) has some issue stemming from parents/parenthood. And it kind of does serve as a more personal parallel to the central story that can be boiled down to the Reapers kind of raising the universe. (Their story is almost literally "we brought you into this world, we can take you out of it.") I kinda personally love Mass Effect more because of this, as I see it more as an exploration of adulthood and figuring out where our influences end and we begin. So you get this really compelling and interesting, shockingly relatable tale wound up in this overarching, sweeping, epic sci-fi story filled with all sorts of things (and to be sure, this is hardly the *only* theme - I actually made a video essay about this very topic.)

From a game perspective, I actually appreciated that the loyalty missions were actually about the characters themselves. And especially since one core experience of the franchise was being able to make decisions that will impact your crew (so, like a leader or parent). You essentially play the game as the guardian of your crew. Given how much fans love the crew and feel a sense of love and affection for them, I think most did wind up feeling protective. (Which only really works if you have really well-written characters). So the more character-driven narrative of ME2, to me, works a little bit better for the overall design of the game.

Posted March 1st by Jet Presto

"When do we stop reacting to our parents and start living for ourselves?"

emergency induction port

Posted March 1st by S.O.H.
S.O.H.
 

Was I the only one who thought Jacob's loyalty mission was really interesting, and that Jacob is actually a great character? I know it's popular to hate him. I thought his voice acting was good. The only thing I didn't like about him was what he does if you romance him.


Posted March 2nd by I killed Mufasa
I killed Mufasa
long live the king

Jacob suffers the same problem that every human character had: he was human!

I really liked Jacob a lot, and I liked his loyalty mission as well. But in all three games, the aliens were just always a little more interesting just by virtue of being, well, alien. I think every human has a compelling backstory (James is the weakest, but even he is a solid character overall.)

I didn't wind up using him a whole lot, though, primarily because his power set didn't really fit in with the team build I liked to go out on. I was more into the technician/biotic abilities than the classic soldier types. Give me incinerate, overload, and warp/singularity any day.

Posted March 3rd by Jet Presto
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