Mafia Game


Feedback


Feed the back. om nom nom.
Xhin is listening.

Hello, everyone. I want to open up a conversation about the expectations and realities about the quality of the posts on GameTalk. Essentially, this is going to be like the Make GameTalk Great Again thread that I made when I first ascended to the rarified heights of "janitor with a shotgun", but a lot more wordy and also recapping what the Content Team/Xhin has already taken care of.

In the past, I have hung my hat on the point that "GameTalk is not 4chan". But, with site policies now set up to permit much cleaner forward progress, we need to talk about what exactly that means instead of just going off on everyone. I don't expect people to magically know what I consider to be rulebreaking content. Even more fundamental than that, however, is the fact that I don't have this job in order to directly serve what I want, but to serve what is beneficial for GameTalk (aided by my understanding of what I want as a user).

But this thread is not about telling you what I want. This thread is about figuring out what the expectations of the general userbase is and how we can reasonably improve GameTalk without going too far into the "safe space" nonsense. While GameTalk is not 4chan, it's also not some private SJW subreddit. I think that we should make it reasonable for well-adjusted people to deal with whatever is on here with no undue stress; that definitely doesn't mean deleting every disparaging post.

This is not an invitation to start drama between users by naming names or talking about personal topics. We're talking about site policy, the meta of user interaction, not particular points in an argument or personal grievances.

So, how do you interpret the site rules and what do you think they're missing the target on? How do you personally decide if something is insulting or obscene to the point of being rule-breaking? What other random thoughts have you had about the new direction that GameTalk has been given?

Basically, dump all your concerns here and I'll sift through them and try to work with them as reasonably as possible. Teamwork, hope & change, make GameTalk great again, synergy, etc.

---------------

Some points that have been addressed from the [previous open prompt]:

  • Advertisement

    [Xhin is taking application for an Advertising Team currently.]

  • Eliminating mod bias

    Major steps were recently taken to end this by way of [abolishing local mod jurisdiction.] This doesn't make it impossible, just much harder. Vigilance and communication regarding any further concerns in this line are always welcome; currently, I don't think we have a problem with it.

  • Generally toxic behaviour

    We've made this much more actionable, but this is a very contextual thing. Further input about what kind of behavior is damaging and what is simply annoying will be needed. I have absolutely no desire as a Content Team member to remove posts from certain people that I find notably irritating as a user, because "being annoying" is often completely incidental to the actual content. What I'm concerned about is when the substance itself is degrading to the community. I think that distinction is useful to make.

  • Forum merging/cleanup

    About to be implemented.

  • Fertile is the mind tilled with steel.
    settingsOptions
    There are 28 Replies

    so you don't like it when I say right wing cucks in jest? ._.

    Posted November 24th, 2017 by ShadowFox08
    ShadowFox08

    I also find the use of SJW buzzwords to be toxic.

    This

    Posted November 24th, 2017 by #85
    #85

    Speaking of buzzwords, how is sjw not a buzzword? I mean I'm not saying it doesn't have it's uses but it's definitely a buzzword and it's been used so much that it's kind of lost some meaning over the years due to people over using it to the point where anything someone doesn't like for any given reason ends up being called sjw.

    Toxic behaviors include being an asshole for no reason and with no substance to your post. This isn't about censoring opinions.

    You can express your opinions without insulting people and making the forum more unpleasant hence the usage of the word toxic.

    Edited November 24th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
    KnokkelMillennium

    is that Ghowlios post or yours?

    Posted November 24th, 2017 by #85
    #85

    What? Why are you even asking that?

    Posted November 24th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
    KnokkelMillennium

    apparently "toxic" is an SJW buzzword now (as if you guys don't know what that means)

    and if any of you think that nullfather is an "SJW" i can assure you that you're wrong. he's just a dude trying to make the site a better place.

    Posted November 25th, 2017 by poptart!
    poptart!
     

    ^ I don't agree with everything he's doing but if we want this site to have any hope at all of having new people and not having this site being nearly as dead this is one of the steps that probably need to be taken.

    Posted November 25th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
    KnokkelMillennium

    Ban #85.

    You really want this guy continuing to fuck up this place with his anti-semitic and white supremacist propaganda, which he believes, but delivers in a way meant to provoke annoyance?

    You really think his presence here is in any way conducive to bringing new blood here? If anything, it might actually encourage more people to post.

    Grow a spine, ban him now, and set a hard standard for who we don't want.

    Posted November 25th, 2017 by Agis
    Agis
     

    Agis, what did I say at the top of this thread?

    I believe that you are intelligent enough to make your intention clear without making this a direct accusation.

    The fact that I agree with you does not preclude that.

    Posted November 25th, 2017 by nullfather
    nullfather

    Ban everyone tbh :^)

    Posted November 25th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
    KnokkelMillennium

    While the word has some baggage and I can understand the skepticism that some have for it, the issue of "toxicity" has been at the forefront of Xhin's mind for a while and has been the main impetus behind most of the recent sitewide changes. Despite this I am confident that his intentions are in no way political.

    so you don't like it when I say right wing cucks in jest? ._.

    Regardless of like or dislike, I imagine this thread exists to establish what constitutes inappropriate behavior. Given that it was a fairly obvious joke and not directed at anyone in particular I don't see how it would qualify.

    1. No flaming, trolling, baiting, using slurs or otherwise employing obvious personal vitriol. This includes insulting, defaming, harassing, encouraging injury towards or otherwise attacking a user.


    Anyone with mod forum visibility (including that wonderful chorus of crickets) will know that I have brought up our new "Rule 1" on multiple occasions. My main focus going forward will be making sure that our interpretation of the text here is not so broad that it gets misapplied, and this is especially true for the World forum where questions of this nature are most likely to arise by virtue of the content we see there. I guess my biggest concern, as a mod, is in establishing how the team is going to communicate with one another in pursuit of forming some kind of consensus.

    EDIT: Nevermind on the last part (unless you have something to say on that point, of course) since Xhin just addressed it.

    Edited November 25th, 2017 by Famov
    Famov

    Toxic is just a word regardless of who uses it for what. There is no "sjw" intent here and people who rail on about the usage of the word toxic alone without any valid criticism aren't helping. You wouldn't be as quick to bat an eye if Null simply said "stop being a dick", which is arguably even more vague and less appropriate. Or if he said any of rule 1 in particular which is obviously what he is referring to with toxic.

    Edited November 25th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
    KnokkelMillennium

    I agree, which is why I gave some context for our use of the word and almost certainly why null preempted the criticism in the OP. You can certainly see why it's wise to do so, given that in spite of requests not to use this thread as a platform to express personal and political animus against specific users that some have decided to do so anyway. It is worth stating in no uncertain terms that users will not be targeted for the content of their opinions, and that what we mean by toxicity are destructive behaviors that exist independently of political persuasion.

    Posted November 25th, 2017 by Famov
    Famov

    "bunch of cucks here" and "that's rich coming from the literal Nazis here" are toxic replies that serve no purpose other than creating an environment if hostility.

    So, stuff like that basically.

    Posted November 25th, 2017 by Xhin
    Xhin
     

    i can basically only speak for the world forum, but it seems like most of the unwanted behavior boils down to users taking swipes at each other. it's playground stuff, but it can make the forum less enjoyable to read and really makes the place feel dumber. i'm not suggesting to ban 85, but i think it's undeniable that most of this type of posting either comes from him or is in response to him. my guess is that it stems from the influence of the culture of pol and whatever other forums he participates in. that type of posting is normal there, but it's discouraged here.



    Posted November 25th, 2017 by EN
    EN

    I had similar problems with boxcube when users like ?huh? and coolguy were still around. My problem was that there would be good posts and discussions but way too many sprinkles of insults all about. And I would always look at it from one angle and think it seemed like harmless, playful banter, but from another angle I could see it being frustrating having that banter thrown at you constantly when trying to have a discussion. Users would always toe the line and I had a hard time making myself ban someone for something that, by itself, seemed harmless and many times gave me a laugh. But in the big picture, it was more than that. I think I should have pushed more for a positive environment.

    Posted November 26th, 2017 by Vandy
    Vandy

    The simpler decision would be to get rid of the World forum. Then all of these toxic posts go away.

    While I admire the work that you are trying to do with the site, I feel like this won’t have an impact on the long run. We have a toxic culture. No matter the rules or what changes you try to make... its not going to make the toxic culture go away. It will just change and exist in another form. Basically I see this as an attempt to make the grey into black and white. It is impossible.

    How many of these posts have we had over the years and nothing changes? There is a fundamental problem with this site but you can’t fix it.

    Posted November 26th, 2017 by Helius
    Helius

    Need more users? :(

    I honestly feel like modern GT is way tamer than the old Gametalk of yesteryear. I don't see as many issues as what happened before. The World forum is just a reflection of politics in the real world, and that's not something anyone here can fix.

    #85 used to think he could use the World forum to promote White Supremacy and dissing gays, but we don't accept that here. Unfortunately, any rules to limit free speech would work both ways: you'd have to end up banning all conversation of white supremacy and racism as well as sexual identity. That's why free speech continues to reign supreme. Eventually the losers are founded out. Now, #85 doesn't post that much, or if he does it's not about supremacy. I like to think I changed his mind.

    As stated before, the World forum isn't going to get "fixed." It's a forum about politics, for Pete's sake! American politics are WAY worse than what goes on in that forum. It's good news when World is the most dangerous forum on the site and not VG discussion: it means we don't have a problem.

    Posted November 26th, 2017 by mariomguy
    mariomguy

    I had similar problems with boxcube when users like ?huh? and coolguy were still around. My problem was that there would be good posts and discussions but way too many sprinkles of insults all about. And I would always look at it from one angle and think it seemed like harmless, playful banter, but from another angle I could see it being frustrating having that banter thrown at you constantly when trying to have a discussion. Users would always toe the line and I had a hard time making myself ban someone for something that, by itself, seemed harmless and many times gave me a laugh. But in the big picture, it was more than that. I think I should have pushed more for a positive environment.

    I miss them. Not just because they made some insane traffic and debate here and they were entertaining.. But they had some interesting personalities and was the reason why I kept going back to GT. We always did make up after the fights, no longer how long it took. I do agree its was bad when it was bad. But when I look back, I'll take the bad with the good. Not saying I would particularly moving on, but man we got REAL DEBATES about games, which was fine. Just the namecalling, getting personal, and ganging up was terrible of course.

    The simpler decision would be to get rid of the World forum. Then all of these toxic posts go away.

    That forum definitely gets toxic and depressing when we post about murders, racial purity, casting out certain minorities and shit. But with politics, we'll bound to get difference of opinion anyway. There are a few minority that would keep it toxic. I don't think banning them is necessarily the right thing to do either for just having an opinion they strongly believe. I dunno

    I also really think its informative to post about worldly stuff though. Post about stories of people/events that can open people's mind and become more understanding.

    And if there's anything the world forum taught me... It's that people who are known to be left or on the right aren't black and white and believe everything that is "stereotyped" on their side. Many people are really sensible and aren't misinformed and have a reason why they believe what they believe or what politician they back far, no matter how it may sounds ridiculous to the majority.

    Edited November 27th, 2017 by ShadowFox08
    ShadowFox08

    "bunch of cucks here" and "that's rich coming from the literal Nazis here" are toxic replies that serve no purpose other than creating an environment if hostility.

    Cucks is pretty harmless if its not particularly at someone. The latter.. Well, some really do believe in white nationalism and DO dislike minorities like Jews, gays, Muslims etc, which is disgusting and toxic. I'll admit its not helping calling someone a nazi, even if they sound like one, but likely there was an argument in the first place and that person has a habit of showing his disdain towards those groups and won't stop.

    I'll admit I've been trolling too with gifs, Its my response to the absurdity of what I hear about racial purity and other things I find ridiculous. I'll dial that back a bit.

    Edited November 27th, 2017 by ShadowFox08
    ShadowFox08

    The simpler decision would be to get rid of the World forum. Then all of these toxic posts go away.


    I suggested that as the quickest, easiest and all around best solution (at least temporarily doing it) but of course, no one is willing to throw the most active forum away even temporarily.

    you'd have to end up banning all conversation of white supremacy and racism as well as sexual identity.


    No we don't. We need only doing something about what is toxic to other users of the site. Like I said, this isn't about censoring opinions and shouldn't be even if those opinions can be contemptible.

    As stated before, the World forum isn't going to get "fixed." It's a forum about politics


    Exactly why I suggested it should go, at least temporarily.

    Cucks is pretty harmless if its not particularly at someone


    The way you were using it could be harmful if it wasn't a joke though and frankly it could still be. I took you half seriously and wondered if you were talking about me.

    Edited November 27th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
    KnokkelMillennium

    The way you were using it could be harmful if it wasn't a joke though and frankly it could still be. I took you half seriously and wondered if you were talking about me.


    No, I wasn't aiming that to anyone in particular. Just in jest cause i was bored.

    Posted November 27th, 2017 by ShadowFox08
    ShadowFox08

    Either way you worded in a way that seemed directed at other users, albeit non-specifically.

    Posted November 27th, 2017 by KnokkelMillennium
    KnokkelMillennium

    i vote the world forum stays

    Posted November 27th, 2017 by EN
    EN

    In the meantime, perhaps move the World forum's most recent posts to a separate quick link at the top?

    Posted November 28th, 2017 by Arch
    Arch
     
    Reply to: An open prompt for all users

    Enter your message here


    Site Rules | Complaints Process | Register Complaint Facebook Page
    GTX0 © 2009-2017 Xhin GameTalk © 1999-2008 lives on