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Adpihi's and Reptigan's Rules about Marrying (Half-)Siblings' Spouses' (Half-)Siblings - Gtx0 ?>


Adpihi's and Reptigan's Rules about Marrying (Half-)Siblings' Spouses' (Half-)Siblings
Posted: Posted February 22nd
Edited February 22nd by chiarizio
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In order to prevent or at least reduce some of the duplication in names between groups of double-parallel-first-cousins and double-parallel-half-cousins and so on;
Consider the following rules:
  • Two men who are full- or half-brothers to each other, should not be married to wives who are full- or half-sisters to each other.
  • Two people who share a father should not be married to spouses who also share a father.
  • Two people who share a mother should not be married to spouses who also share a mother.

    ———

    Notice what isn’t prohibited:
    A half-brother and a half-sister who share a father, but not a mother, could marry a wife and a husband who share a mother, but not a father.

    ———

    I’ll have to work it out; but:
    I’m guessing that will cut down on the odds that two double-half-cousins (or closer) will have exactly the same name.

    ———

    I have to wake up on time tomorrow, so I’ll figure this out tomorrow early evening or late afternoon at the earliest.


  • There are 5 Replies

    After thinking about it some more, I’ve only come up with three (or five) situations that (I’m pretty sure) would cause trouble.
    They are:
  • Two full-brothers marry two full-sisters.

  • Two full-brothers marry two
  • * agnate half-sisters. (same father)
  • * enate half-sisters. (same mother)

  • Two full-sisters marry two
  • * agnate half-brothers. (same father)
  • * enate half-brothers. (same mother)

    . . . . . . . .

    In such cases the two couples’ children share either:
  • the same FF, the same FM, the same MF, and the same MM (they are double-parallel full-cousins); or,
  • the same FF, the same FM, and the same MF; or,
  • the same FF, the same FM, and the same MM; or,
  • the same FF, the same MF, and the same MM; or,
  • the same FM, the same MF, and the same MM.

    —————

    There might not be a problem if two half-brothers marry two half-sisters;
    whether the two couples’ children share two grandfathers, or share two grandmothers, or share an FF and an MM, or share an FM and an MF.
    That’s what I strongly suspect now. I’ll have to see whether I can prove it.

    —————

    There also might be no problem if the sibling-pairs were opposite-sex siblings.
    For instance if a man and a woman are each the other’s full-sibling, sharing both the same mother and the same father;
    And the brother’s wife and the sister’s husband are also full-siblings to each other;
    Then even though the two couples’ children will share all four grandparents, being double-full-cross-cousins,
    One bunch of kids’ FF and FM will be the other brood’s or litter’s MF and MM, and vice-versa.
    So they won’t have the same FF, nor the same FM, nor the same MF, nor the same MM.

    I think that means there won’t be any forced duplication of names for some of one couple’s children to be named the same as some of the children of the other couple.


  • Edited April 13th by chiarizio
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    Note that in an “FB=F and MZ=M” classificatory kinship system, which is also a prescriptive marriage system, the brides of two brothers must be each other’s classificatory sisters, and the husbands of two sisters must be each other’s classificatory brothers.
    So these restrictions on affinity apply to what we’d call “actual siblings” rather than classificatory siblings.

    Also note that in my discussions of such things so far, the purpose, and/or main effect, of the system of “alterclans” (or “ropes” or “geuns”), is to prevent that a man’s wife’s brother (WB) could be his sister’s husband (ZH) (or equivalently that a woman’s HZ could also be her BW). So when there are few enough “spirit-robes”, and restrictions against marrying someone who’s in one’s own or one’s parents’ spirit-robe, or whose parent is in one’s own spirit-robe, etc., are strict enough; a brother-sister pair couldn’t marry a sister-brother pair anyway. However the stringency varies, and the number of alterclans varies, over the history of Adpihi/Reptigan; at times no eponym-exogamy prohibits every such pair of marriages.

    Right now, I’m just concerned about duplication of individual names among parallel double-(half)-cousins.

    —————
    The first part of the individual names of a man’s odd-numbered (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.) sons, are derived from the first part of the individual names of the grandfathers and uncles of the man’s father.
    The first part of the individual names of a man’s even-numbered (2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.) sons, are derived from the first part of the individual names of the grandfathers and uncles of the man’s mother.
    So if two men share a father, their odd-numbered sons will share the first parts of their individual names;
    And if two men share a mother, their even-numbered sons will share the first parts of their individual names.

    The second part of the individual names of a woman’s odd-numbered (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.) sons, are derived from the second part of the individual names of the father and brothers of the woman’s mother. (?)
    The second part of the individual names of a woman’s even-numbered (2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.) sons, are derived from the second part of the individual names of the father and brothers of the woman’s father. (?)
    So if two women share a mother, their odd-numbered sons will share the second parts of their individual names;
    And if two women share a father, their even-numbered sons will share the second parts of their individual names.

    So, if two men who share a father marry two women who share a mother, all the odd-numbered sons of both couples will share both parts of their individual names with the same-birth-ordered son of the other couple.
    If two men who share a mother marry two women who share a father, it will be the even-numbered sons of both couples who share both parts of their individual names.

    Where I put the (?) question-marks above, I may have swapped the women’s father with their mother. If so, the duplication among odd-numbered sons applies to agnate half-brothers marrying agnate half-sisters; and the duplication among even-numbered sons applies to enate (uterine) half-brothers marrying enate half-sisters.

    —————

    Something similar applies, ceteris parabus and mutatis mutandis, to duplication of complete individual names among their daughters.

    Either agnate half-brothers shouldn’t marry agnate half-sisters, and enate half-brothers shouldn’t marry enate half-sisters;
    Or agnate half-brothers shouldn’t marry enate half-sisters, and enate half-brothers shouldn’t marry agnate half-sisters.

    In any case; full-brothers shouldn’t marry full-sisters, nor agnate half-sisters, nor enate half-sisters;
    And full-sisters shouldn’t marry full-brothers, nor agnate half-brothers, nor enate half-brothers.

    It may be safe for half-brothers to marry half-sisters in certain cases.
    Either it’s safe if the shared parents are the same sex, but not if they’re opposite sex;
    Or it’s safe if the shared parents are opposite sex, but not if they’re same sex.

    —————

    I still have to check out what if any hazard there is to a brother and a sister marrying a sister and a brother.

    ———

    I remind myself (and my readers) that we are referring to “actual” parents and siblings (full or half), rather than classificatory relationships, unless stated otherwise!


    Edited February 23rd by chiarizio
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    I’m going to go with a guess. (Or, at least, that’s what I now think I’ll do!)
    Adpihi and Reptigan just want “Wife’s Brother” and “Sister’s Husband” to be two distinct and disjoint kinds of relatives.
    Not because of any danger that if your wife’s brother marries your sister, you’ll end up naming one of your children exactly the same name they name one of their children;
    but, rather, “Just Because”.

    ......

    They want W <> ZHZ and Z <> WBW
    and WB <> ZH and BW <> HZ
    and H <> BWB and B <> HZH.
    ...
    But I suppose they’re OK with WBW = ZHZ and HZH = BWB.


    Edited February 26th by chiarizio
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    The Dwarves and Elves and Men of Ataivsh not only have
    WBW <> ZHZ ;
    they also have
    WBWB <> ZHZH .

    However they allow WBWBW = ZHZHZ .


    Posted February 29th by chiarizio
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    I think that under the naming systems I’ve been considering here, I wouldn’t want two men who have the same father to marry two women who have the same father; nor want two men who have the same mother to marry two women who have the same mother.

    So we wouldn’t want two full brothers to marry two full or half sisters, nor would we want two full sisters to marry two full or half brothers,
    nor would we want two agnate half brothers to marry two agnate half sisters, nor two uterine half brothers to marry two uterine half sisters.

    This despite the fact that two brothers’ wives will always be each other’s Classificatory sisters, and two sisters’ husbands will always be each other’s classificatory brothers.

    It should be safe for two agnate half brothers to marry two uterine half sisters, or two uterine half brothers to marry two agnate half sisters.
    Or at least one of those arrangements should be safe.

    The “rope” or geun or “spirit-robe” proscribed coeponymy will prevent a sister and brother from marrying a brother and sister, I think.
    I could be wrong. If I am wrong there might be no problem with that.



    Posted October 9th by chiarizio
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    Reply to: Adpihi's and Reptigan's Rules about Marrying (Half-)Siblings' Spouses' (Half-)Siblings
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