Are population densities centrally controlled? Are people shifted, by force or coercion, to move as population demands change? How is emigration comtrolled? Or is there even a need for such controls: is the technological quality of life equivalent across planets? Or are there specialised planets for "off the gridders" and "super-preppers" and "paleo-culturalists"? Or any themed planets in general? A planet specialising in sciences or arts, for example.
Posted July 15th
The only question you’ve asked that I have an answer for is, that each planet limits it’s own population according to various criteria that might differ from planet to planet. (Or might not!)
A planet with only human inhabitants, with tech so high we can just barely imagine it, that is everywhere as pleasant and liveable as the best places on Earth, might limit its human population to 10 billion.
I should consider your other questions. Thank you for them!
Posted July 15th
> Are population densities centrally controlled?
There are treaties and “federal” laws which might have an influence.
Probably most of those are planet-specific and/or species-specific.
Most planets will be subject only to those treaties and laws that are all-Union-wide; within those parameters they make and enforce their own rules.
> Are people shifted, by force or coercion, to move as population demands change?
I do not foresee nor intend that, at the present time.
> How is emigration controlled?
I think you meant “how is immigration controlled?”
Anyway that’s what I’m going to answer.
If a planet is already inhabited when Reptigan (which often means the AIs or the Space Centipedes or the Humans) find it, those inhabitants control how many of whom are invited to settle there. If someone is invited they may not want to go. There may be incentives. There may be reciprocity arrangements. If a planet or species has an arrangement with another planet or species, the Union parliament has to approve it, or at least be informed of it and not disapprove it.
The earliest agreement was between the humans and the space-centipedes. The space-centipedes come from a home planet massing three Earth masses and orbiting a spectral class K star.
So if humans find a habitable but uninhabited planet massing more than 1.5 Earth masses, orbiting in the Goldilocks zone of a K or G or M type star, they give the Space Centipedes right of first refusal there. Ordinarily the Space Centipedes take it and settle it, and pretty soon invite a large minority of humans to settle there as well. Humans living on a Space Centipede planet are by treaty required to keep their numbers in check well enough to satisfy the local Space Centipedes. Early during the settlement and “Terra”forming (not!), the Space Centipedes probably hire many AIs to help out; and most and best AIs are known to come from Human planets.
If the Space Centipedes find a habitable but uninhabited planet massing less than 1.5 Earth masses orbiting in the Goldilocks zone of a G or K or F type star, they’ll grant right of first refusal to the Humans. The Humans will usually accept. As long as most of the work is being done in space and/or in orbit, and the actual planet isn’t very populable yet, the Humans will probably hire a bunch of Space Centipedes to construct stuff, at least until plenty of orbital habitats and offices and laboratories and shit are built. Once Humans are well-established on the planet, they’ll probably invite a bunch of Space Centipedes to settle too; most specifically including the workers who’ve been working on it up til then. Many of the workers won’t take up the invitation, because they’d rather move on to the next lucrative construction project. Many other Space Centipedes will just find that any planet comfortable to Humans is uncomfortable to them. But usually eventually there’ll be a thriving Space Centipede sub-colony there. By treaty, Space Centipedes must not reproduce on, nor immigrate to, a Human planet, faster nor in greater numbers, than the Humans there want.
All of that is probably modified every time a new species enters the Union.
> Or is there even a need for such controls: is the technological quality of life equivalent across planets?
No, the quality of life is not equivalent across the planets. Nor is the tech level.
Usually, the less time a planet has been settled, the less tech it has, and the more difficult life there is.
Plus a lot of humans think the 36 most populous planets just have too many people.
Most people who have an opinion figure the ideal Human population for an Earth-like Humans-only planet is about 1.5 billion. The 19 or so least populous of the 55 or so big-pop planets are just about right, they think.
(OTOH some people think 330 million is about right. There are about 150 planets with “medium-low-medium” population they think are just about perfect.)
If a planet is best-suited to some other species, people might not be comfortable living there.
But people migrate for all sorts of reasons. Jobs, education, and room to grow a family, are big ones.
The places where there’s room to grow a family are often lower-tech and less comfortable, though odds are they’re at least as comfortable for humans as for any other species.
> Or are there specialised planets for "off the gridders" and "super-preppers" and "paleo-culturalists"?
When a planet’s characteristics are first published and advertised, people of certain sorts may be recruited, or certain groups — often whatever “movements” are en vogue at the time — may band together and decide to migrate together.
Often, as the planet’s population grows, third-and-later-generation descendants of the first settlers, and second-or-later waves of immigrants, may not feel as strongly about the original motives as those first settlers did.
OTOH, sometimes after a settlement has already gotten sizable, it will gain a new reputation as being a good place for a certain kind of person to move to; or, a late new wave or movement of immigrants may collectively decide to move there rather than to a less-inhabited planet.
And sometimes its original character will persist.
> Or any themed planets in general? A planet specialising in sciences or arts, for example.
Yes. The people who recruit the original settlers, or the people who band together to settle there, may deliberately hope to make it such; and may succeed, though maybe only for a time, or only eventually.
Or the discovery of certain natural resources may turn a planet’s reputation in a particular direction.
Just as has happened to cities on Earth, and sometimes to neighborhoods, or sometimes to countries or nations or states.
For instance if several Union-wide- famous musicians all come out of one university, that university, and by extension that planet, might become a “Mecca” for musicians, music students, broadcasting and recording companies, etc.
Or if several brilliant scientists all happen to join the faculty of a certain university, and they and their co-workers produce several brilliant discoveries and/or theories, the best and brightest other people interested in those fields might want to migrate there.
Edited July 15th
That's a big universe!
Just for fun, I made a script that will randomly distribute 610 billion people into 4095 planets, according to your criteria for low/medium/high-population planets and the amount of each one:
If you click "reseed" it'll randomly distribute things a different way. Otherwise it'll distribute things based on the seed you have in your URL.
Thanks! I’ll take a look 👀!
Posted July 15th
Also, some general questions about your world:
* Do they have faster-than-light tech? If so, what form does it take? If not, how on earth do they keep their republic from fragmenting into a bunch of pieces?
* How do the planets live on mostly-alien worlds?
* How do the aliens live on mostly-human worlds?
> Also, some general questions about your world:
> * Do they have faster-than-light tech?
> If so, what form does it take?
I don’t know. I’m not sure I even understand the question.
> If not, how on earth do they keep their republic from fragmenting into a bunch of pieces?
Well, of course, it’s not on earth.
It takes a lot of FTL travel, FTL freight, and FTL telecommunication.
Even then it’s sometimes accomplished only with a great deal of obstinate optimism, optimistic bullheadedness, blood, sweat, tears, and luck.
> * How do the planets live on mostly-alien worlds?
You mean, how do the humans live on mostly alien worlds?
They adjust their bodies and habits and minds as much as they can to acclimate themselves to their homes.
Second-and-later-generation residents have more and easier success at this.
They also wear gear (for instance air quality and oxygen and pressure and humidity and temperature masks) and condition their residences’ internal environments to compromise somewhat between whatever’s average there and what “human normal” might be.
If there are nutrients that don’t normally grow in sufficient supply there, they’ll cultivate them or import them.
And immigrants usually self-select themselves from among the people who can best tolerate the alien environment.
> * How do the aliens live on mostly-human worlds?
Edited July 15th
> That's a big universe!
A thousand to a million times smaller population than Isaac Asimov’s Galactic Empire, with its 1e15 to 1e18 people. And still less than the 400e18 people there’d be if each of 40 billion planets had 10 billion people.
But it’s big enough to be a surprise to me, both in number of people and in number of planets.
Posted July 15th
> [What form does FTL travel take?] I don’t know. I’m not sure I even understand the question.
What kind of speed do you get with it? Like are you making short hops of a few light-years each, or can you go from point A to B instantaneously, or what? A lot of science fiction will use the former, though the actual "speed" varies. Other times, you can go from anywhere to anywhere instantly, but there's an enormous fuel cost associated with it, so it's more practical to make shorter trips. There's all kinds of variations here too -- my world has "Harp Gates" where the fuel use is tied to the duration of the gate, so it makes sense to open gates briefly to far-flung places to send in supplies or colonists, while you'd want to keep gates open to cities you go to often for as long as possible.
> They adjust their bodies and habits and minds as much as they can to acclimate themselves to their homes.
I meant more, is there conflict between the two? Are humans oppressed on alien worlds or vice-versa? Is there "race" war?
Although the answer re IMmigration control is interesting, I did actually mean Emigration!
In other words, consider a resource poor, scavenged-tech world. Rough place to live, no one wants to visit. Those born there can't wait to find an opportunity to get off.
How does such a world control emigration from the planet, if that's even possible?
Posted July 15th
I’ve assumed that FTL communication between two transceivers is possible only if at least one of them knows the exact position and velocity of the other to an accuracy and precision forbidden by the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
I’ve assumed FTL travel between two portals/gates/whatever is possible only when one of them is carried through normal space time from the other to the position you want it in, while quantum-entangled with it; and remains possible only as long as one of the gates knows exactly the position and velocity of the other.
So FTL communication can be any speed I want, I guess, but it’s fragile ship-to-planet, nigh impossible ship-the-ship (unless they relay through a planet), and might break down due to planetquakes, or orbital collisions or near-misses for objects smaller than planets.
FTL velocity is some multiple of light speed, say 300c or so, I guess; I haven made up my mind, and I might change it again after I do.
It will probably consist of hops between established gates averaging probably 10 or 11 ly apart for interstellar travel, and maybe 10 or 11 AU apart for interplanetary travel. Or I might change my mind.
You’d probably travel at sublight speed to a portal, hop through it at superluminal velocity for 10 or 11 ly, travel at sublight speed to the next portal (probably less than 30 AU away), hop another 10 or 11 ly through that, etc. You could probably do about 3 hops a day. Special gates could be set upon to hop up to 30 ly; going through them at three hops a day you could cover 90 ly in a day. You could set up meta-special gates to cover 100 ly in a day, and go through them ten times as fast as the ordinary first-generation gates.
every one of the big-pop planets would have gates direct to each of the four closest big-pop planets;
and every one of the medium-pop planets would have a gate directly to the closest big-pop planet, and each of the three closest medium-pop planets;
and each of the small-pop planets would have a gate directly to the closest mid-pop planets , and each of the two closest small- pop planets.
Or something like that.
High-valence planets would gate or port directly to and from eight other planets;
There’d also be valence-7 planets;
And valence-6 planets;
And valence 5 and 4 and 3 and 2 and 1 and 0 planets.
In addition to the planets that can be reached in one hop, high-valence planets can reach, and be reached from, up to 18 other planets in two hops.
The older and richer and more populous a planet is, the higher its valence.
It’s inspired by what I understood of the tabletop RPG Traveller.
Edited July 15th
And oh btw; the discrimination you asked about is against Union law. It happens sometimes some places; but since the Union authorities fight it, it’s hard to be too harsh with it for very long.
The establishment of the Union’s ability and duty to fight such discrimination was the founding political conflict of the Union.
It’s a great event of Reptigan history, like the American or French Revolutions (and others), about which if I could tell tales well, I could really tell a tale.
I didn’t just say “no, there’s no racial oppression” as if they came by it easily.
Posted July 15th
No, there is no race war. Preventing race war is the [i]raison d’e^tre[/i] of the Union.
I expect emigration controls itself. If someone scrounges up the scratch and wherewithal to leave an impoverished place, the chance they’ll hurt someone else by so leaving, seem slim; if the community feels moved to stop them, it will be because they got the wherewithal by some illegal means.
But mostly, any place that’s poor as a whole, probably hasn’t been settled long; and most of its settlers and even first-and-second-generation natives, will be committed to enriching it. Plus the natives will be used to it, and won’t find it so objectionable, having nothing to compare it against to its disadvantage.
The really big-pop planets will probably have lower-lower classes that do in fact feel the pinch of poverty. They will probably enlist in the Space Corps to escape. After serving in the Corps their opportunities and horizons will be greatly expanded.
Some of the restless youth of the less-rich planets will also be taken, or sent, into the Space Corps. After service, they may find their opportunities at home are expanded, and more attractive; and they also may find the familiar more comfortable than the exotic. But if they want to leave, the Corps will fund their move.
If the community fears or suffers a brain-drain, or can’t get doctors to stay in practice there, or something, they may come up with incentive plans, which they can persuade the Union to subsidize, to attract or keep the “right sort” of immigrant or would-be-emigrant.
Edited July 17th
The distribution of planetary population sizes should logically follow a Yule-Simon distribution or law, being the result of a Matthew Principle stochastic process.
I can’t remember or understand the Yule-Simon distribution so good.
But I could understand a compromise between a parabolic fractal distribution and a Zipf-Mandelbrot distribution.
[b][size 1.25]In Zipf’s Law a planet’s population would be inversely proportional to some power of its rank.[/size][/b]
For instance suppose the power were the first power.
Then the k-th most populous planet’s population would be 1/k of the most populous planet’s population.
* 1st planet : pop 10,000,000,000
* 2nd planet : pop 5,000,000,000
* 3rd planet : pop 3,333,333,333
* 4th planet : pop 2,500,000,000
* 5th planet : pop 2,000,000,000
* 6th planet : pop 1,666,666,667
* 7th planet : pop 1,428,571,429
* 8th planet : pop 1,250,000,000
* 9th planet : pop 1,111,111,111
* 10th planet : pop 1,000,000,000
And so on.
If the power were 0.5 instead, the population would decline more slowly as rank increased.
It would be the fourth planet, rather than the second, whose population was half that of the biggest planet;
and the 16th planet, rather than the fourth, whose population was a quarter that of the most populous planet.
But if the power were 2, the population would decline much more quickly;
* 1st planet : pop 10,000,000,000
* 2nd planet : pop 2,500,000,000
* 3rd planet : pop 1,111,111,111
* 4th planet : pop 625,000,000
* 5th planet : pop 400,000,000
And so on.
In general, the logarithm of the k-th planet’s population is a linear function of the logarithm of its rank k.
log(pop[sub]k[/sub]) = -s*log(k) + log(pop[sub]1[/sub])
If s <= 1 there has to be a finite cutoff; say if this function drops below 10,000 we just say there aren’t anymore populated planets we’ll consider.
[b][size 1.25]In the Mandelbrot distribution, the log of the population of the k-th planet is a linear function of the logarithm of some additive offset of its rank.[/size][/b]
In other words log(pop[sub]k[/sub]) = -s*log(k+q) + (log(pop[sub]1[/sub]) + s*log(1+q)). Or it is if I did the algebra right in my head. I think I did, but maybe not.
We need q>-1 or stuff will get screwed up.
For q=0 this is just the Zipf distribution.
Different things happen for -1 < q < 0 than for q > 0.
[b][size 1.25]In the parabolic fractal distribution, the logarithm of the k-th planet’s population is proportional to some quadratic function of the logarithm of its rank.[/size][/b]
In other words log(pop[sub]k[/sub]) = -a*(log(k)^2) - b*log(k) + log(pop[sub]1[/sub]).
If a = 0 we just get a Zipf distribution.
We probably want both a>0 and b>=0, to guarantee that for k>1, the k-th planet’s population will go down as k goes up.
[b][size 1.25]I propose a “parabolic Mandelbrot” distribution, in which the logarithm of the k-th planet’s population is proportional to some quadratic function of the logarithm of some additive offset of its rank.[/size][/b]
In other words
log(pop[sub]k[/sub]) = -a*(log(k+q)^2) - b*log(k+q) + (log(pop[sub]1[/sub]) + a*(log(1+q)^2) + b*log(1+q)).
We still assume q > -1, a>0, b >= 0.
This formula has four parameters: a, b, q, and pop[sub]1[/sub].
It takes at least four data-points to establish them, but it can fit any four data points. So we want more than four; probably at least a dozen.
Edited July 17th
Please read my last post on this thread, when you can find the time!
Posted July 16th
> If the community fears or suffers a brain-drain, or can’t get doctors to stay in practice there, or something, they may come up with incentive plans, which they can persuade the Union to subsidize, to attract or keep the “right sort” of immigrant or would-be-emigrant.
All makes good sense to me!
Posted July 16th
If the Union “owns” about a ten-millionth of the Galaxy’s habitable planets, I figure its territory ought to have about a ten-millionth the (main part of the) galaxy’s volume.
The star-filled disk of the galaxy has a radius of about 100,000 light years.
So the Union’s radius ought to be about 1/cuberoot(10,000,000) of that, which is about 464 to 465 light-years.
At a diameter between 920 and 1000 light-years, the Union ought to take about 30 to 32 days to jump from one edge to the opposite edge, using FTL portal technology.
Not that it’s very likely the Union would build such a pair of portals for quite a while; that might be a thousand-year project.
I’m considering refiguring the price of hyperspace transport.
I still think it should be proportional to some higher power of the velocity than the square; and for all I know the 2.5 power is good.
But I wonder if I really want it to be proportional to the 1.5 power of the mass, or even to any power higher than the first power.
As long as it’s proportional to higher than the first power, it will be economical to divide any shipment into several sub-shipments.
If it costs me 1,000,000 times some amount to ship 10,000kg, I can divide it into 100 packets of 100kg each, ship each packet at a cost of 1000 times the amount each, and wind up paying only 100,000 times the amount in total; saving 90%.
There should, I think, be some kind of economy of scale, making it cost less than 1000 times as much to ship 1000 times as much.
Or not? Should I leave it the way it is, explaining why a letter could cross the Union at (relatively!!) little cost when a person would cost a lot?
Also making interstellar letter-carriers be little people, like Pony Express riders? “Orphans Preferred” and all?
I still haven’t figured out a good way to distribute their population among their planets.
But their population could reach that 610 billion figure in about 480 years after it catches up with Earth’s RL current population. Or less, or more, depending.
Posted July 17th
I am reconsidering, and calling into question, many or even most of the numbers in my Original Post.
I still want a total human population of 92^6 which is around 606,355,00x,yyy where x,yyy is less than 2,000.
I still want the population of the most populous star-system to not exceed 10^10 (10,000,000,000).
Everything else is open to change, subject to various plausibility-checks.
I think the radius of Union space is probably closest-to-firm, of most of the other numbers in my posts here.
Edited August 1st
@elemtilas: @linguistcat: @Xhin:
Within a radius of about 464 to 465 light-years from Adpihi, there are between about 138 thousand and about 139 thousand main-sequence star-systems of spectral classes OBAFGKM. The distance between one such system and its nearest neighbor averages around 8.9 to around 9 lightyears.
More than three-quarters of those will be class M stars, and more than three-quarters of the class M stars will have no main-sequence hydrogen-fusing companion. But maybe many class M stars will have a dying red giant companion, or a dead white dwarf companion, or a deuterium-fusing brown dwarf companion.
Most of the stars will have two to six planets, including one to three planets in their “Goldilocks zone”, where water will be liquid at least somewhere on the planet’s surface at any time of year.
Red dwarfs’ Goldilocks zones will be quite thin, and therefore unlikely to contain more than one planet, unless they’re in a double-planet configuration.
There probably won’t be even one class O star in Union space.
Life probably won’t evolve on planets in star-systems containing O or B or A class stars; and intelligent life probably won’t evolve on planets in star-systems containing F class stars, though perhaps “complex” life might.
People (that is, Reptigan citizens and other intelligent species) who are ordinary civilians will probably not permanently settle and raise families in star-systems containing A or B or O class stars, nor in systems containing three or more stars. However, temporarily-or-intermittently-inhabited research stations or other outposts, might be established within star-systems containing up to three stars, possibly including up to two class-A stars.
Though intelligent life is likeliest to evolve in star-systems containing solitary K or G class stars, people are likely to permanently settle star systems with one or two stars if their classes are F or G or K or M.
Stars with three or more habitable planets are likely to be class F; stars with two or more habitable planets are likely to classes G or F.
Stars with super-habitable planets (ie planets more life-friendly than RL Earth) are likely to be class K.
If a star-system is inhabited by fewer than about 100,000 Reptigan citizens, it’s likely to not have an FTL portal, unless it’s (almost) on a straight line between two systems that do have portals to each other.
If it is on (or within a light-year of) such a straight line, the likelihood that it has a portal to at least the more populous or the nearer of those two star-systems, depends on its own population.
If it has 10,000 ([i]subject to change[/i]) or more inhabitants, it has a 50% ([i]subject to change[/i]) chance of being portal-connected to one or both of those systems;
otherwise if it has 1,000 ([i]subject to change[/i]) or more inhabitants, it has a 38% ([i]subject to change[/i]) chance of being portal-connected to one or both of those systems;
otherwise if it has 100 ([i]subject to change[/i]) or more inhabitants, it has a 25% ([i]subject to change[/i]) chance of being portal-connected to one or both of those systems;
otherwise if it has 10 ([i]subject to change[/i]) or more inhabitants, it has a 1% ([i]subject to change[/i]) chance of being portal-connected to one or both of those systems by a Reptigan portal;
otherwise it has very little chance of being connected to any other star-system by a Reptigan portal.
If a given species’s population in a given star-system is fewer than 500 families (headed by a breeding group; a breeding couple in a two-sex species), then it doesn’t have enough members there to keep their numbers up without immigration, or without help from fellow inhabitants of other species.
If a given species’s population in a given star-system is 1,000 individuals or more, they can be expected to petition the dominant species there to be allowed to become a permanent colony of 5000-or-more families; and one would expect they couldn’t have grown that large unless the dominant species were already pre-disposed to grant such a petition.
If a given species’s population in a given star-system is fewer than 5,000 families (or “breeding pairs” in monogamous two-sexed two-parent species), they don’t have enough genetic diversity to stay healthy without immigration.
So if they have fewer than 10,000 inhabitants there, I’m assuming they’ll need help from the other Reptigan citizens of other species who also live there; and that there are probably at least 100,000 Reptigan citizens (of whatever specieses ) inhabiting that system.
There should be at least about 9660 at a minimum class-G star-systems in Union space within about 465 ly of Adpihi.
More than half of them should have a large enough human population to be considered either humans-only or human-dominated or heavily-human-influenced.
= = = = = =
I may have had more to say.
If so I can’t think of it at the moment.
I’m sorry if this post was rather rambling and multi-topic.
Edited August 12th
(I forgot to tag anyone in the preceding few posts. And I don’t really know who else to tag.)
There should be at least around 16,600 or so class K habitable star-systems in Reptigan Union’s space within about 460 or 470 ly of Adpihi.
(Though really for class K I should be centering on the Space Centipedes’ homeworld instead of Adpihi. And I should come up with a name for that planet. And a better name for their species.)
Significantly more than half of them should be inhabited by a Space-going intelligent species; whether a species that has mastered interplanetary travel but has yet to achieve interstellar travel, or an interstellar-going species that has colonised and settled the system, or sometimes a native interstellar-going species.
Over half of the rest should have non-Space-going intelligent autochthonous indigenes.
And most of the rest should have some sort of life.
Space-Centipedes should have been one of the first class-K species to achieve interstellar travel. After concluding the founding treaty with Adpihi’s (or rather Reptigan’s) Humans, their expansion should have accelerated to the point that they are now the leading K species in Union space, in terms of star-systems inhabited, and in terms of total population.
There should be a centuries-long or generations-long or even intermittently a millennia-long “fad” for “all things human”, or maybe “all things Adpihi” or “all things Reptigan”, among the Space-Centipedes.
So a lot of Space-Centipedes should want to enlist in the Space Corps, for that and/or other reasons; particularly in the “Construction Battalion” part of it.
I have other thoughts along this line, but they are not ripe enough to post yet.
Do any of my readers also have ideas or suggestions?
Or praise or criticism of my ideas so far?
Or requests for clarification of any head-scratchers I’ve unwittingly posted?
Edited August 11th
@elemtilas: @linguistcat: @Xhin:
There may be a few star-systems inhabited by five or more Reptigan species, each comprising at least 5% but not more than 35% of the star-system’s population.
It would be interesting to see how those societies work.
Posted August 12th